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[Beloved]

God is certainly using you, God has placed you in a unique situation. You are being a light to them by being there and you are showing them that there is a way out. Unfortunately as the cliche goes "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink."

You are also around the type of people that God favors, those at the bottm of the barrel.  I hope that you are being careful, these places also can be dangerous, you could get arressted or hurt. It is interesting that God is using a horticulturist to plant seeds. Who knows who among them is ready to hear the Word.

There are many people out in the world. They may not be using drugs etc but they have found other ways to drown out the voice of God. All of us are where God wants us.

I see that you are in Denison TX. I am in nashville, we are both lucky to be in areas where we can enjoy pansies and other foilage most of the year. All I want is enough cold to kill th overpopulation of bugs. I hope this spring brings you more job opportunities.   I always keep these verses in mind.

(Pro 30:7)  Two things, have I asked of thee, withhold them not from me, ere yet I die:

(Pro 30:  Vanity and falsehood, remove far from me, Neither poverty nor riches, give me, Feed me with the food appointed me:

(Pro 30:9)  Lest I be full, and deny, and say-Who is Yahweh? or lest I be impoverished and steal, and do violence to the Name of my God.

beloved

[wayofpeace]

i just joined, so i am new at this, but let me share on the question raised by ELLEN
and CHARLES, who said:

"With that being said, I deeply feel that our time is coming.
I can't imagine that God would reveal such wonderful truths to us, for us to just bury them.
Scripture states in Matt 5:14 "Ye are the light of the world, a city that is set on a hill cannot be hid."

...

i was converted during the JESUS FREAKS days in 1971.
i had a very intense and personal experience of JESUS in spite of the fact that when IT happened,
i was as far away as i could be from HIM and neither was i consciously seeking HIM:
i was a truly LOST sheep! 

this event was followed by joining others who had had a similar experience.
we met primarily at coffee houses and parks and each others rooms, reading the scriptures together.
it was a wonder-full time, a walking on air kind of experience.

eventually we were too large for a regular table at the cafe, so we started looking for a place.

a campus church offered us their meeting room, then something happened:
they invited us to attend sunday services... and most of us did... and then gradually
the group scattered and we all went our own ways. most joined churches.
what happened was that the majority got 'churched' and out of their walk.

thus FAITH slips/decays into BELIEF. i truly believe this is what happened to many.
so i think there may be a call to re-convert those called and chosen that
allowed themselves to become religious rather than FAITH-FULL. 

coincidentally i just read ROB BELL's new book:
JESUS WANTS TO SAVE CHRISTIANS: a manifesto for the church in exile.

[mharrell08]

i just joined, so i am new at this, but let me share on the question raised by ELLEN
and CHARLES, who said:

"With that being said, I deeply feel that our time is coming.
I can't imagine that God would reveal such wonderful truths to us, for us to just bury them.
Scripture states in Matt 5:14 "Ye are the light of the world, a city that is set on a hill cannot be hid."

...

i was converted during the JESUS FREAKS days in 1971.
i had a very intense and personal experience of JESUS in spite of the fact that when IT happened,
i was as far away as i could be from HIM and neither was i consciously seeking HIM:
i was a truly LOST sheep! 

this event was followed by joining others who had had a similar experience.
we met primarily at coffee houses and parks and each others rooms, reading the scriptures together.
it was a wonder-full time, a walking on air kind of experience.

eventually we were too large for a regular table at the cafe, so we started looking for a place.

a campus church offered us their meeting room, then something happened:
they invited us to attend sunday services... and most of us did... and then gradually
the group scattered and we all went our own ways. most joined churches.
what happened was that the majority got 'churched' and out of their walk.

thus FAITH slips/decays into BELIEF. i truly believe this is what happened to many.
so i think there may be a call to re-convert those called and chosen that
allowed themselves to become religious rather than FAITH-FULL. 

coincidentally i just read ROB BELL's new book:
JESUS WANTS TO SAVE CHRISTIANS: a manifesto for the church in exile.

Rob Bell is a heretic...just like all the Christian ministers in the world.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8871.0.html

If Christendom teaches it, it is 100% false.



Marques

[wayofpeace]

Marques said, "a heretic ... just like all the Christian ministers in the world."

MARQUES, can i disagree with you on this and remain in the group?
because THAT has not been my experience.

respectfully,
hector

[Beloved]

When ever you are reading other "christian" teachers you need to always remember .

(2Co 11:13)  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

(2Co 11:14)  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

(2Co 11:15)  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

You need to read and discern all teachings. There are too many smooth talkers out there so we all need to be critical and pray that God will reveal thier lies.

beloved

[wayofpeace]

BELOVED,

there's NO doubt in my mind that there's error and heresy and half-truths within CHURCHDOM;
however, to claim that there is NO righteous CHRISTIANS within her is IMO to cross over into infallibility.

we cannot know why some of GOD's beloved have stayed or asked by our FATHER to stay within.

which reminds me of ELIJAH, when thinking that he is the only one left
who has not betrayed GOD but GOD corrects him:

And I will leave over in Israel seven thousand,
whose knees did not kneel to the Baal and every mouth that did not kiss him.

again, i am not here defending ROB BELL or being argumentative, 
i just thought the title of his book applied to my post and the discussion.

[Kat]

Hi Hector,

You should come to a point in your spiritual walk that you do not feel at home in a church building that is where Stan has his throne.  Ray wrote an article (#10 in the LoF) on this 'The Synagogue of Satan - There's One Near You.'  It explains in much detail what the church is about, here is the link http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html

Here is an excerpt from article #13 from the LoF and a email that will give you a brief explanation.

http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html ---------------------------

The Great Church in Revelation is called:

"Mystery BABYLON THE GREAT, The Mother of harlots, and abominations of the earth" (Rev. 17:5).

This great church decidedly does NOT spiritually dwell in the heavens, but is ‘of the earth, earthy.’ This great church is built upon the spiritual sand of this world’s doctrines. And being built on sand, SHE WILL FALL:

"And there followed another angel, saying Babylon IS FALLEN, IS FALLEN, that great city [‘For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children’ Gal. 4:25], because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication" (Rev. 14:.

And this…

"And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great IS FALLEN, IS FALLEN, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities" (Rev. 18:5).

And so, dear reader, if you have built your spiritual house upon the sand of this world’s great Church, you are warned to COME OUT OF HER, because she is going to fall, and "GREAT will be the fall of it."


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,533.0.html -------

Dear Reader:

God has always witnessed against unbelieving Israel (His Church), as well as witnessng to those He chose to live by faith within the Nation/Church.

Under the New Covenant, this choosing of the faithful involved a more pronounced departure from the main group. Paul witnessed to Gentiles in the Synagogues of the Jews, for example, but when they believed Paul's message concerning Jesus Christ, they left the synagogue and met in private homes of like believers.

The truth is, once one begins to believe God's Word and live by God's Word, he will not need to come out of the Church or leave the Church, the Church will KICK HIM OUT!  I can personally attest to this.

Each generation who reads the book of revelation will see their sins presented--both to the called and the chosen. Of course, the called have always believed that they are the chosen.  It's just God's way to conceal a matter for HIs own ultimate majesty.

Tartaroo is a subject to the next HELL Part C paper.

God be with you,

Ray

[Marky Mark]

BELOVED,

there's NO doubt in my mind that there's error and heresy and half-truths within CHURCHDOM;
however, to claim that there is NO righteous CHRISTIANS within her is IMO to cross over into infallibility.

we cannot know why some of GOD's beloved have stayed or asked by our FATHER to stay within.

which reminds me of ELIJAH, when thinking that he is the only one left
who has not betrayed GOD but GOD corrects him:

And I will leave over in Israel seven thousand,
whose knees did not kneel to the Baal and every mouth that did not kiss him.

again, i am not here defending ROB BELL or being argumentative, 
i just thought the title of his book applied to my post and the discussion.

we cannot know why some of GOD's beloved have stayed or asked by our FATHER to stay within.

^^^
Email to Ray;

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5085.msg40000.html#msg40000

Dear Dr. Smith:  Too big a subject for an email, but I will make a few comments.  Christian doctrine is built upon paganism, superstition, erroneous translations, and hideous doctrines of men.  Of course, those persons who are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will not be in the kingdom reign of Jesus Christ. But that fact has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of humanity's eternal destiny.

"Many are called but few as chosen" is a statement of fact, not a statement of eternal exclusion.  God has predetermined to choose out a chosen elect FEW.  These will enter into the Kingdom of God which will then bring about the salvation of the rest of humanity through Judgment. Judgment is upon the chosen few House of God NOW (I Pet. 4:17).  When the knowledge of the Lord covers the earth like the waters cover the sea, then, not now but then,  "Because He hath appointed a day, IN THE WHICH He will judge the world in RIGHTEOUSNESS..." (Acts 17:31).   "WHEN [not now, but 'when']  Thy Judgments are in the earth the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9).

Those who enter the straight and narrow (difficult) way will enter into the Kingdom of God, but those who go the broad way will go into DESTRUCTION. This is certainly true. However. What is the final destiny of those who go the broad way to destruction.   Is there hope for the lost, the perish, the destroyed?  Duh!!  Jesus said, "The Son of Man is come to save that which was lost" (Luke 19:10, Matt. 18:11).

The word translated "lost" is the Greek word "apollumi" which is translated "LOST," "PERISHED," and "DESTROYED."  Jesus Christ said that He is come to SAVE all those who are "apollumi"--destroyed, perished, and lost.

But does anyone believe Jesus?  NOT MANY. Like I said, too big a subject for an email.

God be with you,

Ray





Peace...Mark

[aqrinc]

george,

if CARNAL shows up, you have my permission to call it as you see it.
interesting that you mentioned that our task is mostly UNLEARNING
what has been poured into each of us for years
and errors layered on top of errors over the GOSPEL for centuries.

which is why i was thrilled to read RAY's tenacious deconstruction
and removal of the rubble: making the  GOOD NEWS GOOD again!

Hector,

I just read a book review of: JESUS WANTS TO SAVE CHRISTIANS. Just from the review
i can say that the book has nothing in common with BT.

BTW,
Jesus Christ, Does not want to save christians; He is The Saviour Of All (The Whole) World.

1Ti 4:10 
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Remember All the truths you learn here, you did not buy, and it is priceless. Those in the world who sell another gospel for financial gain, cannot be lumped in with BT or The Gospel Of The Kingdom since we are called (dragged) out of those very dens of iniquity. There was another thread here recently about that very subject of bell's; you can find it and do a little reading for no cost other than time.

Rev 17:5 
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Rev 18: 1-51 
And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2  And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 

4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.


george .

[Beloved]

Could you explain the following statement more

You posted
there's NO doubt in my mind that there's error and heresy and half-truths within CHURCHDOM;
however, to claim that there is NO righteous CHRISTIANS within her is IMO to cross over into infallibility.



Now I can understand that there may be some saints still in Babylon who may be destined to have their eyes and ears are opened then they will have to deal with these scriptures and commands

(Rev 18:4)  And I heard another voice out of the heaven, saying, `Come forth out of her, My people, that ye may not partake with her sins, and that ye may not receive of her plagues,

(2Co 6:17)  wherefore, come ye forth out of the midst of them, and be separated, saith the Lord, and an unclean thing do not touch, and I--I will receive you,

you posted
we cannot know why some of GOD's beloved have stayed or asked by our FATHER to stay within

Can you give scriptural proof of these two states, those who have stayed knowing the truth and those who know the truth and have been "asked by the Father" to stay there.

I do not seeing that the Father "asking any one", but I do see that it is His Will for the many to remain blind and deaf to His word and some that have to wait until he is ready to heal them.

No one has said that Christendom did not have some truths but they are always wrapped in lies and false doctrines. They themselves are blind to them and even what they say some times is prophesy about and against themselves.  

There is no one here on earth that is Righteous...not one ...except Him

(Mat 19:17)  And he said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one is good except One--God; but if thou dost will to enter into the life, keep the commands.'


beloved

[wayofpeace]

GEORGE, my post originated due to reading posts by ELLEN and CHARLES, who were pondering how or when to approach family members who are still members of a church, thus i used rob bell's book title JESUS WANTS TO SAVE CHRISTIANS. and, OF COURSE, i know that HE wants to save ALL.  it is within that context that i tought the title applicable.

to KAT, et al: a question:

is the coming out of BABYLON a once-and-for-all deal or is it a process.

by that i mean: when we first hear the command to get out of her and we obey after being a part for several years; is it just enough to quit the church--detaching ourselves physically--to shed all the falsity that we've assimilated over the years? or is it a gradual process as the HOLY SPIRIT leads us into all truth.

in my own experience--having been raised catholic from birth, and a true conversion as an adult and forsaking the church very early on; i feel it is still an on-going process, at least it is for me.

[aqrinc]

Hector,
You wrote.

there's NO doubt in my mind that there's error and heresy and half-truths within CHURCHDOM;
however, to claim that there is NO righteous CHRISTIANS within her is IMO to cross over into infallibility.

The infallibility is GOD'S Own Declaration Through His Word (Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour And King)

in my own experience--having been raised catholic from birth, and a true conversion as an adult and forsaking the church very early on; i feel it is still an on-going process, at least it is for me.

Pro 3:5-7
5 Trust in Yahweh with all your heart, And do not lean to your own understanding."
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He Himself shall straighten your paths."
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear Yahweh and withdraw from evil.


I had to listen to J Hagee while we were having breakfast this morning. Several times i had to refute
what he was saying while my mouth was full. It is very discomfitting to listen the half truths and
psuedo scripture the ministers in christendom use to fool the flock.

Bad enough if they themselves are decieved (blind leading blind). Much worse when thay deliberatly
twist The Scriptures to encompass their Hell, Tithe, and Everlasting doctrines. Committing a crime
out of ignorance is no excuse; doing same with The Scriptures; with intent to decieve and profit is
practicing Heresy.

Mal 1:14 
But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a
corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the LORD of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen.

Mat 7:15-16 
15  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Act 20:28-31
28  Therefore take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers,
to feed the church of God which He has purchased with His own blood.
29  For I know this, that after my departure grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30  Also men shall arise from your own selves, speaking perverse things in order to draw disciples away after them.
31  Therefore watch and remember that for the time of three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

george.

[Kat]

Hi Hector,

when we first hear the command to get out of her and we obey after being a part for several years; is it just enough to quit the church--detaching ourselves physically--to shed all the falsity that we've assimilated over the years? or is it a gradual process as the HOLY SPIRIT leads us into all truth.

Well it would have to be both.  I spent most of my life in church too (there was a few of my teenage years that I did not attend).  As an young adult I felt that I had found the truth (first love of Christ) and was devoted to serving God, but felt it had to be done in the church.  Thus I fell away and left my 'first love,' as devotion to the church began to replaced my love for Him  

When I finally 'heard the command to get out of her,' many years later, I did detach myself from the church physically and removed myself form the heretical teachings that are like poison.  But it has been an ongoing process to "to shed all the falsity that we've assimilated over the years."  I'm sure I will continue to be getting rid of false teachings for the rest of my days, as they do become deeply embedded into our way of thinking.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[aqrinc]

I had to listen to J Hagee while we were having breakfast this morning.

George,I hope you did't choke on your breakfast. yikes

Thanks Mark,

As a matter of choking, yes but only slightly. I was too busy trying to shut up so i could finish eating.
Of course he (Hagee) had to bring up about weak faith (go straight to hell ); i couldn't stop (Heresy)
and lying deciever, plus that thing about dead mens bones (Thoughts) from boiling to the tip of my lips.
Well the evidence i survived is, you are reading this post.

george .

[wayofpeace]

GEORGE wrote,

"The infallibility is GOD'S Own Declaration Through His Word (Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour And King)."

ABSOLUTELY! AMEN!

BUT are we infallible in our readings and interpretations?
always right?

again i can only go by my own learning-way:
i know a bit more today than yesterday,
and that's the way we IMO we are gradually MATURED into the MIND of CHRIST.

my understading is that having the mind of CHRIST is not automatic.
we received the SPIRIT so that we MIGHT understand.

so that since we are in still in-process,
we may get some things wrong while the WORD of GOD is ALWAYS TRUE!

which is why we are made into a BODY so that TOGETHER
we may complement, build and mature each others up.


  

[wayofpeace]

thanks KAT,  that has been my experience too.

so, to clarify my position:
i do think that there are a myriad of brothers and sisters (also called & chosen)
that are--as we speak--in the process of detaching themselves from the harlot.

these are are just like the 11th hour workers in the parable....
arriving late but will get the same wages as the early risers.

i sense that this EXODUS is ongoing.
FATHER is gathering all of HIS sheep,
specially the ONE (still within the church system) for whose rescue HE leaves the 99.

[odinpop]

I think that we all need to be careful listening to, or taking, any man's word as truth. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

As Universalist we believe the "ALL" but do we believe the nones?

Rev 12:9and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:
Rev 18:23….all nations deceived."

To know your position is… to know that ALL are, at some level, still deceived. ALL …the whole world, ALL the nations, and each and every one of us.

We are each charged with working salvation out OURSELVES.

Php 2:12   …work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

And to not just listen to what men have to say.

Mat 15:9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

I believe that anytime you put your faith in ANY MAN, you are putting yourself in a dangerous position.

Brad

[Marlene]

Ray, has an email entitled One Mans Testimony. It is a good one to read. Some, men believe in Universal Salvation, but carry teachings over from when they were in Babylon. They have one foot in and one foot out. But, I believe that we can discern with scriptures.  I have seed some of those who Ray speaks of. We have to test everything with scriptures or we could be deceived.

Ray, backs his teaching with the Scriptures. Many of them do not even quote a scripture. Just thought you might want to go in and read it . It is quite long.  But, I believe God has led me to lots of truths. I also, believe he can finish what he started.

In His Love,
Marlene

[aqrinc]

Hi Hector,

You are on to something now:

my understanding is that having the mind of CHRIST is not automatic. we received the SPIRIT so that we MIGHT understand.

We receive the Spirit of Understanding when He Knows we are ready for it not before.

Luk 24:44-45 
44  And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

so that since we are in still in-process, we may get some things wrong while the WORD of GOD is ALWAYS TRUE!

So we let Scripture interpret Scripture; Jesus Christ Himself said:

Joh 6:63  
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

which is why we are made into a BODY so that TOGETHER we may complement, build and mature each others up.

Eph 4:16  
from whom the whole body, fitted together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of each part, producing the growth of the body to the edifying of itself in love.

george.

[aqrinc]

Brad,

Scripture explains itself and interprets Scripture, you really need to read all the words. Ray has
always stressed, Read THE WORDS, ALL the words.

You do need to read all the words verse 9-11

Rev 12: 9-11
9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

You do need to read all the words verse 1-9

Mat 15:1-9
1  Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2  Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3  But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4  For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5  But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6  And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7  Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8  This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

You do need to read all the words verse 12 and 13.

The reason you work out your own salvation with fear and trembling is because you do not understand
that Verse 13 explains verse 12:

Php 2:12 
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my
absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Php 2:13 
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

george.