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[Kat]

Hi Brad,

We all were indeed "once decieved."   But now a few are having their eyes opened to this truth.

Tit 3:3  For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

God "draws" more like drags us to Him and begin to teach us the truth, which removes the deception.

James 1:16  Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
v. 17  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.

John 14:26  But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

When we give our life to Christ (only because He has drawn us to Him) we no longer lean on our own or any man's understanding.

Gal 2:20  I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[odinpop]

George,

Thank you for correcting me. Being yet a babe, I misspeak sometimes. I was trying to make the point that it's between God and individual man, not man and man. I was trying to make the point that the reason I came out of the "church" was to get away form the deceitful doctrines of men and I will never take the words of "any man" as truth again. God willing!

I was trying to make the point that:
 
Jn 1:8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If you listen to man, you have to understand their (and our, and my) sinful position.

My point is no earthly man has the whole truth.

Brad



Brad

[kenny]

Luk 2:46  And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
Luk 2:47  And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
Luk 2:48  And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Luk 2:50  And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
Luk 2:51  And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
Luk 2:52  And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
hey my freind we can see that he was hearing the doctors, and they were astonished for as he was hearing them he was answering them with his under standing and then his wisdom grew.

[Akira329]

Hey Kenny

Luk 2:46  And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
Luk 2:47  And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
Luk 2:48  And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Luk 2:50  And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
Luk 2:51  And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
Luk 2:52  And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
hey my freind we can see that he was hearing the doctors, and they were astonished for as he was hearing them he was answering them with his under standing and then his wisdom grew.

Scripture clearly says:
Luk 2:47  And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and (his)answers.
Jesus was in the midst of them, as he always is but doing what? Teaching
He heard the doctors, he even heard thier answers.
They new scripture, but did not have understanding and therefore had not wisdom

Joh 7:15  And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
Joh 7:16  Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
If he never learned according to the Jews, where did he learn? From his Father!

Also something to consider in Jesus' learning process:
Luk 2:48  And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
This statement shows his great understanding over his earthly parents.

Luk 2:50  And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

This next verse is great!!
Luk 2:51  And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

Even though he had this great wisdom he was still subject to his earthly parents.
If Jesus was asked to sweep the floor, he swept the floor
If Jesus was asked to take out the trash, he took it out

Also the question of Jesus' learning obedience by the things he suffered goes way beyond his earthly life
You might want to check out the Nashville 2007 conference.
There seems like I could say more as I'm thinking about this(as if ray hasn't said enough) but I'll wait for your response.

Antaiwan

[kenny]

hey Antaiwan
MY FRIEND THANK YOU, THIS IS SO COOL.
I HAVE BEEN TO SEVERAL CHRISTIAN SITES ON THE WEB AND ALL I HAVE EVER GOT IN RESPONCE WAS AMEN AND NOW HERE I GET WHAT WE ALL NEED (SPRIRITUAL RIB EYE WITH HOLY SPIRIT SAUCE).
THANKS FOR THE RESPONCE FREIND I WILL RETURN THE FLAVOR SOON

[aqrinc]

Antaiwan,

Here are other Scriptures that absolutely back up the NT Scriptures you have quoted.

Job was questioned by GOD way back in The OT. Based on just these few of questions; it is plain
to see that Jesus Christ did not need to learn anything from any earthly person or source.

Job 38: 1-17 (CLV) Concordant Literal Version
1 Then Yahweh answered Job from the tempest and said:
2 Who is this who darkens counsel By declarations without knowledge?
3 Belt up your loins now like a master; I shall ask of you, and you inform Me.
4 Where were you when I founded the earth? Tell if you know with understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements--for surely you know! Or who stretched out a tape upon it?
6 On what were its sockets sunk? Or who directed its cornerstone in place,
7 When the stars of the morning jubilated together, And all the sons of Elohim shouted with joy?
8 Who shut in the sea with double doors When it rushed forth, it came forth from the womb,
9 When I made a cloud its garment And murkiness its swaddling band,
10 When I set My statute upon it And broke bar and doors,
11 When I said, Unto here shall you come but shall not proceed farther, And here a limit is set to the pride of your billows?
12 In all your days have you ever instructed the morning? Have you made known to the dawn its place,
13 That it might take hold of the wings of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it?
14 It turns itself to hues like sealed clay And is streaked like a garment.
15 Then from the wicked their light is withheld And the exalted arm is broken.
16 Have you ever come unto the seepings of the sea Or walked about to fathom the abyss?
17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you, And have you seen the gates of the shadow of death?

Pray tell, what can puny man in all his few years of grubbing around in the dirt; teach The Creator?.

Pro 8: 22-35 (GNB) Good News Bible
22  "The LORD created me first of all, the first of his works, long ago.
23  I was made in the very beginning, at the first, before the world began.
24  I was born before the oceans, when there were no springs of water.
25  I was born before the mountains, before the hills were set in place,
26  before God made the earth and its fields or even the first handful of soil.
27  I was there when he set the sky in place, when he stretched the horizon across the ocean,
28  when he placed the clouds in the sky, when he opened the springs of the ocean
29  and ordered the waters of the sea to rise no further than he said. I was there when he laid the earth's foundations.
30  I was beside him like an architect, I was his daily source of joy, always happy in his presence---
31  happy with the world and pleased with the human race.
32  "Now, young people, listen to me. Do as I say, and you will be happy.
33  Listen to what you are taught. Be wise; do not neglect it.
34  Those who listen to me will be happy--- those who stay at my door every day, waiting at the entrance to my home.
35  Those who find me find life, and the LORD will be pleased with them.
36  Those who do not find me hurt themselves; anyone who hates me loves death."

These Scriptures are only parts of two chapters in The Bible; how many chapters in total does it have.

george.

[Marky Mark]

Hey Kenny

Luk 2:46  And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
Luk 2:47  And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
Luk 2:48  And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Luk 2:50  And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
Luk 2:51  And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
Luk 2:52  And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
hey my freind we can see that he was hearing the doctors, and they were astonished for as he was hearing them he was answering them with his under standing and then his wisdom grew.

Scripture clearly says:
Luk 2:47  And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and (his)answers.
Jesus was in the midst of them, as he always is but doing what? Teaching
He heard the doctors, he even heard thier answers.
They new scripture, but did not have understanding and therefore had not wisdom

Joh 7:15  And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
Joh 7:16  Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
If he never learned according to the Jews, where did he learn? From his Father!

Also something to consider in Jesus' learning process:
Luk 2:48  And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
This statement shows his great understanding over his earthly parents.

Luk 2:50  And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

This next verse is great!!
Luk 2:51  And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

Even though he had this great wisdom he was still subject to his earthly parents.
If Jesus was asked to sweep the floor, he swept the floor
If Jesus was asked to take out the trash, he took it out

Also the question of Jesus' learning obedience by the things he suffered goes way beyond his earthly life
You might want to check out the Nashville 2007 conference.
There seems like I could say more as I'm thinking about this(as if ray hasn't said enough) but I'll wait for your response.

Antaiwan

Joh 7:15  And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
Joh 7:16  Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
If he never learned according to the Jews, where did he learn? From his Father!

ALSO THIS

Matthew;
13 And when Jesus had come into the regions of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying: Who do men say that the Son of man is?

14 They said: Some, John the Baptist, but others, Elijah, and yet others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.

15 He says to them: But who say you that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answering said: Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens.



Its a beautiful thing when one understands that all is of the Father.When Simon Peter was asked of by Jesus,
But who say you that I am?
Simon Peter's answer was exactly what our Father wanted Peter's answer to be.When Jesus was asking Peter the question, our Father in heaven was already giving the answer through Peters mouth,the Word is the truth for our Father can never lie.Only through the Father could Peter give the correct response,because, when Jesus was asking Peter the question ,He was asking the Father, and the Father spoke out of Peters mouth. For flesh and blood did not reveal it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens.

Now,can any man say that ones will is free?   To quote Brother Ray "I speak as a fool".

Understanding your position...   YES INDEED...

All Praise and Glory to our Father in heaven.

Amen.

Peace...Mark