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JUDE 1:9--Help?
daywalker:
Jude 1:9: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
A little help with what this verse is about here. I don't recall if Ray ever wrote or spoke about it. I think I remember hearing that it was from a story either in the Apocrypha or one of the Jewish teachings, but my memory is failing me. ???
Anyways, just trying to understand this verse; I tried reading the book, but it didn't help [perhaps I overlooked the answer?]
Thanks in advance.
- Daywalker.
smeacham:
Hi Daywalker,
I know that Ray has said that there's a good case for showing that Michael in this verse is Christ. Other than that, I'm not aware of him teaching on this verse.
Steve
Ninny:
I was a Seventh Day Adventist for 20 years..they believe and teach that Michael the archangel is Jesus. I don't know what anyone else teaches about it. I don't recall what Ray has said about it. Dennis or Kat could answer that question a lot better that I that's for sure! Here's another mystery for you..Melchizedek
His name means "King of Righteousness" Who is he? Don't know! I never have really given it much thought! Just happened to think about it in relation to your question! Gotta be somebody smarter than me! :D
Kathy ;)
daywalker:
--- Quote from: Steve Meacham on February 10, 2009, 09:24:09 PM ---Hi Daywalker,
I know that Ray has said that there's a good case for showing that Michael in this verse is Christ. Other than that, I'm not aware of him teaching on this verse.
Steve
--- End quote ---
Hey Steve,
Yea, I've heard that for other passages, but in this verse it doesn't fit to me, because it says,
"... [Michael] durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."
Surely, Jesus has the Authority to rebuke Satan, Himself, but perhaps I just don't understand what is happening in this verse...
There are a few places in Scripture, where it appears that the Archangel Michael is actually Jesus...
Michael = "who is like God"
Daniel 12:1-4 (Young's Literal Translation):
And at that time stand up doth Michael, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape, every one who is found written in the book (lit. scroll) And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during. And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever (Hb: and beyond). And thou, O Daniel, hide the things, and seal the book till the time of the end, many do go to and fro, and knowledge is multiplied.'
Matthew 24:20-22, 27-31 (Concordant Literal New Testament:
Now be praying that your flight may not be occurring in winter, nor yet on a sabbath, for then shall be great affliction, such as has not occurred from the beginning of the world till now; neither under any circumstances may be occurring. And, except those days were discounted, no flesh at all would be saved. Yet, because of the chosen, those days shall be discounted...
For even as the lightning is coming out from the east and is appearing as far as the west, thus shall be the presence of the Son of Mankind. Wheresoever the corpse may be, there will the vultures be gathered. "Now immediately after the affliction of those days the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory. "And He shall be dispatching His messengers with a loud sounding trumpet, and they shall be assembling His chosen from the four winds, from the extremities of the heavens to their extremities.
Matthew 25:31, 45-46 (CLNT):
Now, whenever the Son of Mankind may be coming in His glory, and all the holy messengers with Him, then shall He be seated on the throne of His glory,...
Then shall He be answering them, saying, 'Verily, I am saying to you, In as much as you do it not to one of these, the least, neither do you it to Me.' And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."
Revelation 20:13, 15 (CLNT)
And the sea gives up the dead in it, and death and the unseen give up the dead in them. And they were condemned, each in accord with their acts. And if anyone was not found written in the scroll of life (AV: book of life), he was cast into the lake of fire.
================================
Revelations 12:7-12 (CLNT):
And a battle occurred in heaven. Michael and his messengers battle with the dragon, and the dragon battles, and its messengers. And they are not strong enough for him, neither was their place still found in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, the ancient serpent called Adversary and Satan, who is deceiving the whole inhabited earth. It was cast into the earth, and its messengers were cast with it. And I hear a loud voice in heaven saying, "Just now came the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, for the accuser of our brethren was cast out, who was accusing them before our God day and night. And they conquer him through the blood of the Lambkin, and through the word of their testimony, and they love not their soul, until death. Therefore, make merry, ye heavens, and those tabernacling in them! Woe to the land and the sea, for the Adversary descended to you having great fury, being aware that brief is the season that he has."
Revelations is a book of symbols (Rev. 1:1)...
Luke 10:17-20(CLNT):
Now the seventy-two return with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Thy name!" Yet He said to them, "I beheld Satan, as lightning, falling out of heaven. Lo! I have given you authority to be treading upon serpents and scorpions and over the entire power of the enemy, and nothing shall be injuring you under any circumstances. However, in this be not rejoicing, that the spirits are subject to you, yet be rejoicing that your names are engraven in the heavens."
This is from a personal study I started a while ago. I'm know that I'm merely scratching the surface here. But I still don't get that Michael in Jude 1:9 is Jesus Christ, seeing, as I said, that He has Authority to rebuke Satan. But again, I could just be missing the point...
Thanks for your input, Steve & Ninny.
- Daywalker.
aqrinc:
Daywalker, Steve,
These are all the Scriptures about Michael The Archangel i could find.
I do not see that Ray has yet developed this subject so do we want
to pursue it now. ???
george. :)
Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
george.
Ray answers an email
Archangel
« on: January 25, 2007, 04:42:27 PM »
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Hi Ray,
I have posted my new revelations of the bible on my Myspace page and I got a response from a sister from the church I used to attend. I sent her the true meanings of scripture and no response. It seems to be a trend. I send explanations of vital Bible verses and then it is like they fall off the face of the planet. It happened to me with a guy who runs a very influential website (he even made a bet with me). It’s like he never got my email. Anyway, just wanted to share that, but I do have a question….
Who is the archangel Michael? I don’t know, but this guy seems to be very important. Is he a mere angel or something more? Was curious about your views on this, I’m sure you have come across this question in the past. Thanks
God be with you,
Roy
Dear Roy:
We need to be careful about using words like "mere" when referring to such as Michael the ARCHANGEL. The "ANGEL OF THE LORD" mentioned so often in Scripture is more than mere! Likewise Jesus is in every meaning of the word, a "Messenger--Angel" of His Father. If ARCH- signifies the very highest, (and we have no other being called an ARCHangel in Scripture except Michael [which means LIKE GOD]), then just maybe Jesus IS THAT ARCHANGEL.
God be with you, Roy,
Ray
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