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Forsaken Me!
galatians22067:
Hi Everyone,
Can someone help me interpret this verse.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
What does Ray say about this verse.
Thanks,
Matt
aqrinc:
Hi Matt,
Here is a complete paper that Ray wrote on the subject:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6719.0.html
Excerpt from: Was Christ Made Sin.
Bible study Oct. 2006 - PART 1
(scroll down for PART 2)
WAS CHRIST MADE SIN ?
You only understand these things if you have the Spirit of God.
Because of those who don’t obviously understand them and that’s why I’m giving this talk. I going to deal with the subject today that people without the Spirit of God do not understand, can not understand, and will not understand. I’m going to give you the Scriptural facts today, so that if the Spirit of God is working with you, you will understand it, okay.
So I heard this message of Coy Brock’s from the internet, his talk was entitled ‘How Christ Was Made Sin.’
But I’m not going to deal with how Christ was made sin, because that very title alone is total unscriptural heresy and blasphemy. The title of my talk is ‘Was Christ Made Sin?’ I can emphatically tell you, NO He was not!
They will say, ‘well but don’t we have a Scripture that says He was?’ As a matter of fact we don’t, we have a Bible verse in the King James Bible and in many other modern Bibles that says “Christ was made sin.” That is not an accurate translation of the Scripture. All be it you will find those words in the Greek manuscript. And they will say, ‘well then how can it not be an accurate translation, if those are the words that are found?’ It’s because there is more understanding that one needs to have to translate the Scripture, then to just look at a word and say what does the word, by itself mean.
People are dumb founded when they learn how much is involves in translating from one language to another. There are people as naive as I was when I was 15 or 20 years old. They believe that you can take any language and whatever it says in that language, you can take each word and what does that word mean in the English language, then you put that English word there. Then you take the second word… maybe it’s Chinese or maybe it’s Russian or Hebrew or maybe it’s Greek. But then you take the second word and what does it mean, in English how do you define that word, and so let’s put the English equivalent of that definition next. Then let’s take the next word. Therefore you have a word for word, perfect translation of whatever language you are trying to translate. Correct? Wrong paleface, not even close.
I’ll say this again and I’ve said it many times, there is no such thing as a word for word translation of one language into another language. It doesn’t exist.
Also read the paper below to get more information on the subject.
The Christian Hell is a Christian hoax
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D1.htm
george. :)
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: galatians22067 on February 12, 2009, 10:39:02 AM ---Hi Everyone,
Can someone help me interpret this verse.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
What does Ray say about this verse.
Thanks,
Matt
--- End quote ---
Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2775.0.html):
> How are you doing Ray? Blessed I believe.
>
> I really appreciate the research that you have submitted yourself to under
> GOD's hand. I'm striving for such myself, (no flattery intended). I don't
> yet consider myself learned, but I'm aware of the holy spirits work in my
> life. I have a question for you if you will?, I have been hearing for a
> long time that when Jesus died on the cross he was seperated from the
> father, i don't find that in the scriptures atleast not in the sense that
> they are suggesting. They (ministers) constantly say that GOD turned his
> back on Jesus on the cross, I disagree with that... Jesus said I and the
> father are one. Even as Paul said i am convinced that nothing shall seperate
> us from the Love of GOD. Even though Jesus did go to the place of Sheol,
> how is it possible for him to take the keys from the Devil without authority
> upon hi gh, for without the spirit of GOD who is Jesus? There is another
> issue bothering me how they say Jesus said "Father why hast though forsaken
> me...?" which ties into the first question...Jesus was constantly aware, all
> through the gospel you hear him saying "its not my time yet," "Its not my
> time". If Jesus knew the intentions of GOD doesn't it seem like doubt for
> him to ask why have you forsaken me, considering that he was completely
> aware what the Fathers will was, and what was going to happen? Or was that
> the whole purpose of him saying it, to get us to identify with the
> sepration? Cause to me that seems like something the devil would say not
> GOD.
> Directly after he said that statement, He screamed and there was and
> earthquake, like something in the spirit realm took place, and then he says
> like it was nothing "It is done..." I think theres something else behind
> tha t But i don't believe for a second GOD turned his back on His only
> Begotten son, am I am wrong on this?
>
> May GOD further you...
No, David, neither do I believe that God "turned HIs back on His only Son."
There are those who teach it, however. Jesus quoted the first few words found
is Psalm 22 which goes on to describe just Who the Messiah was to be and the
purpose for Him being crucified.
God be with you,
Ray
I'm sorry Matt, but I didn't want to copy the entire Psalms 22 as it is somewhat lengthy. But I'm sure you can look up on your time and/or through E-Sword.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Harry:
Hi Matt,
As I have studied this subject it has become clear to me that although Jesus never sinned he was punished as though he did. There is the the bronze serpent that Moses was instructed to make which was a foreshadow of Christ. I think the scriptures bear out the fact that God the Father was the one to exact the payment for sin from Christ. We have the example of Abraham being the one to lift the knife to kill Isaac. Who alone but God could know the price due for sin? David said in Ps 51:4 Against thee and thee only have I sinned ( Making reference to God). Job chapter 16 seems to be making prophetic references to Christs suffering ( ie Christ being pierced and having his gall spilled on the ground ) If this section is referencing Christ's suffering it appears that the Father played a much more painful role in our salvation then we may have realized.
Harry
aqrinc:
Hi Matt,
In case you haven't yet looked it up; here is the entire Psalm 22. Good question btw,
it made me search out other places where this question was asked and answered.
Following the principle; no Prophecy of The Scriptures is It's own interpretation,
this is a great example of ways to use Esword to find your witnesses.
Psa 22
1 My God, my God, why have You forsaken me, and are far from my deliverance, and from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not answer; and in the night, and am not silent.
3 But You are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in You; they trusted, and You delivered them.
5 They cried to You, and were delivered; they trusted in You, and were not ashamed.
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised by the people.
7 All who see Me mock me; they shoot out the lip; they shake the head, saying,
8 He trusted on Jehovah; let Him deliver Him; let Him rescue Him, since He delights in Him!
9 For You are He who took Me out of the womb, causing Me to trust while on My mother's breasts.
10 I was cast on You from the womb; You are My God from My mother's belly.
11 Be not far from Me; for trouble is near, for there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have circled around Me; strong bulls Of Bashan have surrounded Me.
13 They opened wide their mouths on Me, like a ripping and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water, and all My bones are spread apart; My heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of My bowels.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and My tongue clings to My jaws;
16 and You have brought Me into the dust of death. For dogs have circled around Me; the band of spoilers have hemmed Me in, piercers of My hands and My feet.
17 I can count all My bones; they look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them and cast lots for My clothing.
19 But You, O Jehovah, be not far from Me; O My strength, hurry to help Me!
20 Deliver My soul from the sword, My only one from the dog's hand.
21 Save Me from the lion's mouth; from the wild oxen's horns. You have answered Me.
22 I will declare Your name to My brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will praise You.
23 You who fear Jehovah, praise Him; all of you, the seed of Jacob, glorify Him; and fear Him all the seed of Israel.
24 For He has not despised nor hated the affliction of the afflicted; and He has not hidden His face from him, but when he cried to Him, He heard.
25 My praise shall be of You in the great congregation; I will pay My vows before the ones who fear Him.
26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek Jehovah shall praise Him; your heart shall live forever.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn to Jehovah; and all the families of the nations shall worship before You.
28 For the kingdom is Jehovah's; and He is the ruler among the nations.
29 All the fat ones on the earth shall eat and worship; all those who go down to the dust shall bow before Him; and none can keep alive his own soul.
30 A seed shall serve Him; it shall be spoken of Jehovah to the coming generation.
31 They shall come, and shall declare His righteousness to a people that shall yet be born, that He has done this.
george. :)
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