Confusing scriptures

[EKnight]

Matthew 22:

32 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Mark 12:

"He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."

Luke 20:

"Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him."

And then...

Romans 14:

9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Can anyone see why I might be confused??

Eileen

[Dennis Vogel]

Not really. He is Lord of the dead that await be raised, and Lord of those alive at this time.

"God" is used except in the last verse you quote where "Lord" is used.

"to this end..." explains it.

Dennis

[aqrinc]

Hi Eileen,

Try reading the outtake (verses) with the surrounding scriptures included, it becomes clearer then.
Apparent confusion becomes clarity when not read in isolation here.

Mat 22: 29-33
29 Now, answering, Jesus said to them, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God."
30 For in the resurrection neither are they marrying nor taking in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven."
31 Now concerning the resurrection of the dead, did you not read that which is declared to you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
33 And, hearing it, the throngs were astonished at His teaching."


Mar 12: 24-27
24 Jesus averred to them, "Are you not therefore deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet the power of God?
25 For whenever they may be rising from among the dead, they are neither marrying nor taking out in marriage, but are as the messengers in the heavens."
26 Now concerning the dead, that they are being roused; did you not read in the scroll of Moses, at the thorn bush, how God spoke to him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You, then, are much deceived."


Luk 20: 35-39
35 Yet those deemed worthy to happen upon that eon and the resurrection from among the dead are neither marrying nor taking out in marriage.
36 For neither can they still be dying, for they are equal to messengers, and are the sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."
37 Now that the dead are rousing, even Moses divulges at the thorn bush, as he is terming the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob."
38 Now God is He, not of the dead, but of the living, for all, to Him, are living."
39 Now answering, some of the scribes say to Him, "Teacher, ideally say you."


Rom 14: 7-9
7 For not one of us is living to himself, and not one is dying to himself."
8 For both, if we should be living, to the Lord are we living, and if we should be dying, to the Lord are we dying. Then, both if we should be living and if we should be dying, we are the Lord's."
9 For for this Christ died and lives, that He should be Lord of the dead as well as of the living."

george .

[EKnight]

Okay George, after reading and re-reading the entirety of the scriptures that you quoted, here is what I see.

Hi Eileen,

Try reading the outtake (verses) with the surrounding scriptures included, it becomes clearer then.
Apparent confusion becomes clarity when not read in isolation here.

Mat 22: 29-33
29 Now, answering, Jesus said to them, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God."
30 For in the resurrection neither are they marrying nor taking in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven."
31 Now concerning the resurrection of the dead, did you not read that which is declared to you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
33 And, hearing it, the throngs were astonished at His teaching."


Mar 12: 24-27
24 Jesus averred to them, "Are you not therefore deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet the power of God?
25 For whenever they may be rising from among the dead, they are neither marrying nor taking out in marriage, but are as the messengers in the heavens."
26 Now concerning the dead, that they are being roused; did you not read in the scroll of Moses, at the thorn bush, how God spoke to him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You, then, are much deceived."


Luk 20: 35-39
35 Yet those deemed worthy to happen upon that eon and the resurrection from among the dead are neither marrying nor taking out in marriage.
36 For neither can they still be dying, for they are equal to messengers, and are the sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."
37 Now that the dead are rousing, even Moses divulges at the thorn bush, as he is terming the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob."
38 Now God is He, not of the dead, but of the living, for all, to Him, are living."
39 Now answering, some of the scribes say to Him, "Teacher, ideally say you."


Rom 14: 7-9
7 For not one of us is living to himself, and not one is dying to himself."
8 For both, if we should be living, to the Lord are we living, and if we should be dying, to the Lord are we dying. Then, both if we should be living and if we should be dying, we are the Lord's."
9 For for this Christ died and lives, that He should be Lord of the dead as well as of the living."

george .

In Matthew, Mark and Luke, Jesus says that God is the God of the living after saying that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all of whom at this time were dead (physically) therefore, it seems as though Jesus is saying that they are living (spiritually) as if they are already resurrected

Now concerning the dead, that they are being roused;

Being roused is present tense (not-to be roused, or been roused but BEING roused). I send my daughter upstairs to wake her father, I say at this moment he is being roused (by my daughter).  That is happening now, which is not in line with Ray's teaching that all are dead until "that day" a day, not everyday.

This is what I see, so if it is wrong (according to whomever) then I am blinded.

Does no one else see what I see? 

Eileen

[Beloved]

This translation may help you Eileen

Jesus is talking about the age of ressurection

(Luk 20:34)  And Jesus answering said to them, `The sons of this age do marry and are given in marriage,   (he is talking about what will happen after death and the resurrection)

(Luk 20:35) but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage;

(Luk 20:36)  for neither are they able to die any more--for they are like messengers--and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again.

(Luk 20:37)  `And that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the Bush, since he doth call the Lord, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob;

(Luk 20:38)  and He is not a God of dead men, but of living, for all live to Him.'

These OT patriarchs who obeyed God will be raised and will be given spiritual bodies at the resurrection. I see this as God taalking outside of time.

He is not a God of spiritual or physically dead men but the God of spiritual living men who live to Him.

he is telling them that Moses and the three patriarch will all be spiritually alive at the resurrectin

So I do not see how these verse contradicts what ray teaches.  Jesus is describing what will happen in that age.

beloved

[aqrinc]

Hi Eileen,

The Scripture passages are not in isolation, remember The Sum Of The Words. All the Apostles
are writing about the same thing; in places one tells more while another tells less (perspective).

Search for understanding to discern as opposed to trying to prove your point. GOD IS NOT, the
author of confusion. But always remember this in the Gospels:

Mar 4:11 
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:
but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Luk 8:10 
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others
in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Why:

Mar 4:12 
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.


These two Scriptures below are going into more detail than the others, follow it without a
preconcieved ending and see how your understanding grows. Dump your old learning now
and start like it was your first day in a class that you love to be in. (You Do Love It Too)

Luk:20:38
Now God is He, not of the dead, but of the living, for all, to Him, are living."

He (Jesus Christ) See's us alive in Himself Always; we see where we are now (dead carnal).

Rom:14: 9
For for this Christ died and lives, that He should be Lord of the dead as well as of the living."

george.

Btw: Whenever i have doubt;  i check my (mind Beast) at the door, since The Scriptures are Always Right.

[judith collier]

Luke 10 amd Mark 4 are attributed to YOU? I don't like this habit and certainly would never use this tactic in an argument. To take God's word and apply it STRICTLY to myself. It could just as easily be used for Eileen. Judy

[Beloved]

Judy  I do not exactly understand by what you mean Luke 10 and mark4 attributed to you?  in your post but perhaps this might help


(Col 3:16)  Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

(Col 3:17)  And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

The scripture that Eileen was confused about was a matter of the translation. If you look at the proper grammar it will make more sence. Some people will never see the meaning because it was NEVER given for them to see. Those in babylon think they have already been resurrrected and in heaven.

beloved

[aqrinc]

Luke 10 amd Mark 4 are attributed to YOU? I don't like this habit and certainly would never use this tactic in an argument. To take God's word and apply it STRICTLY to myself. It could just as easily be used for Eileen. Judy

Hi Judy,

The Scriptures say what they say, we do not have to like it; IT IS Period. The only tactic one
should use in communicating is clear language that both parties can understand. GOD'S Word
Is Applied By GOD Only; so no fear of anyone applying IT, to themself.

As always we look at: What do The Scriptures say; not what man feels.

Mar 4:11 
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:
but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Mar 4:12 
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Luk 8:10 
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others
in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Ray has taught exhaustivly about The Gospels; read just this one paper to find out more:

http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

Excerpt from: Twelve Truths to Understanding His Word

TRUTH NUMBER 2

[A] "All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them" (Matt. 13:34).

"But without a PARABLE spoke He not unto them..." (Mark 4:34).

[C] "This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them" (John 10:6).

Jesus taught in parables only, and no one understood His parables, hence Jesus taught in a way that He knew no one would understand His message. This truth of Scripture is so revolutionary to the minds of most Christians that many will think it blasphemy, and yet the Scriptures abound with statements that fully support it.

I heard Matt Crouch (elder son of TBN President, Paul Croach) state on international television that Jesus spoke in parables to make the meaning of His teachings simple and clear and understandable to the simple farmers and uneducated people of Judea. My Wycliffe Bible Dictionary has a similar explanation: "Purpose of parables. The obvious purpose of Jesus' use of parables was to make spiritual truth clear and compelling." What a crock.

Is anyone interested in what Jesus Himself had to say about His use of Parables? Good. Here it is:

"And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why do you speak unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them it is not given" (Matt. 13:10-11).

Now then, does anyone see any similarity between "to make spiritual truth clear and compelling," and "...but unto them it is not given?" No? Neither do I. What I see is a diametric opposite. What I see is a flat out contradiction between Christian teachers and the Word of God.

"Jesus spoke in parables to make His quaint little stories clear and understandable to the uneducated farmers of Judea," my foot: "and when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they perceived that He spoke of them" (Matt. 21:45). The Chief Priests and Pharisees were generally highly educated people. But even they didn't know what Jesus' parables really meant, but they on one occasion at least, "perceived" that Jesus was speaking about them.

So surely, if Jesus' parables were "clear and compelling" to the uneducated farmers of Judea, then they would be even more so to His own disciples, not?

"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and His disciples came unto Him, saying, Declare [expound, define, explain] unto us the parable of the tares of the field" (Matt. 13:36).

Even Jesus' Own disciples had to have these parables explained to them. And just how did Jesus "declare" these parables to His Own disciples? You wouldn't believe me if I told you. You wouldn't believe me if I showed you. Okay, here's how Jesus explained His parable. He explained His parable to His disciples by telling them ANOTHER PARABLE! I told you that you wouldn't believe me. More on this later.

This is another one of those marvelous spiritual truths of Scripture, which you will never hear explained in the Church. Just what do they teach all these future clergymen in seminary? The fact is, Jesus did not want the people to understand Him and Jesus did not want them to repent and Jesus did not want to spiritually heal or save them. He clearly said so. But why? Because God has a plan that involves calling MANY, but choosing out only a FEW.

"For whosoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that he has" (Matt. 13:12).

Does anyone understand what Jesus just said here? Probably not too many, for this too, is a parable explaining a parable—and no one understood either. I wish they would let me teach a few classes at seminary.

"Therefore speak I to them in parables, because they seeing, see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah... for this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should BE CONVERTED, AND I SHOULD HEAL [SAVE] THEM" (Verses 13-15).

george.

[judith collier]

Dear George, you should be very happy to believe you are one of the few. I do not see it. And what I said, I reiterate. Every time someone does not get the same thing you guys do, you revert back to how you are the chosen and all understanding is yours and yours only and only what you see is from God.How is it that I have understood much even before I came here and even since I came here but I do not see this and now YOU are more spiritual and one of the few and not me because I do not se what YOU see.Judy

[Vangie]

I do not see it. And what I said, I reiterate. Every time someone does not get the same thing you guys do, you revert back to how you are the chosen and all understanding is yours and yours only and only what you see is from God.

Judy,
I just do not see what you see, and you seem offended by George and Beloved just offering scripture to clarify and edify the readers of this discussion....(Judy, Eileen, guests, members, myself, and all the others who read here to learn and study and know our Lord through his Word).  No one has referred to themselves as "chosen" here in this thread that I see--besides, we cannot know unless we endure to the end.  And it's not the "end" yet, at least not for those of us who can read this forum right now, right?   None of us will even know if we are chosen until Jesus returns.  But until then, we can

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

and not let our personal "beast" and carnal mind see offensive things that aren't meant, just because God hasn't turned a particular light bulb on for us that He seems to have flicked the switch for someone else.  It's not their fault that they "get" something that we don't get yet.  All in God's time, not ours.

Love to you in Christ,
Vangie   

[EKnight]

Just to set the record straight, I don't have "preconceived" notions nor do I have to "unlearn" anything. I was thoroughly convinced that all are awaiting resurrection until I came across these verses. 

It appears (I am not trying to "prove" my point) to me that- 26 Now concerning the dead, that they are being roused; did you not read in the scroll of Moses, at the thorn bush, how God spoke to him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?- is trying to validate the fact that people will be raised from the dead.  If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are dead, then He is the God of the dead.  But since it clearly states that God is NOT the God of the dead, then I must conclude that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not dead.

I have been concentrating on only these verses since I first came across them.  I have read them in every translation I could find on both esword and biblegateway. Therefore, this post is not a knee jerk reaction to replies of this thread.  I have concluded that it must be a matter of tense, however, I cannot reconcile Abraham, Isaac and Jacob still being dead when they are being referrenced in order to validate that there actually is resurrection of the dead and that God is not the God of the dead but God of the living.

Now, that being said, how can I be certain that it is I who is not being given the eyes to see? (i.e., give me the scriptures that tell us that the resurrection is yet to come)----this is NOT a challenge, it is a request.

This all pertains to Luke 20:37-38.  I have not even begun to wrestle with Romans 14:9!  I will have to leave that one on the back burner for now.

Thanks for your help.

Eileen

[mharrell08]

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=2886.0):

Matt.22:32'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Ray, Doesn't this verse indicate Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were alive during Jesus incarnation and now? I don't understand how this fits.Thanks so much for any help.

Blessings,

Rob
Dear Bob:
I have answered this question many times.  We need to READ all words in
a Scripture, not just gloss over it and think we know what it means.

Matt. 22:23--"...there is NO RESURRECTION...."  [The Saducees didn't believe in resurrection].
          22:28--"...therefore in THE RESURRECTION...."
          22:30--"...For in THE RESURRECTION...."
          22:31--"...BUT AS TOUCHING THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD...."
          22l32--"...God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

These verses are ALL ABOUT THE RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD.  Concerning "THE
RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, God is the God of the living.  He is not the God of dead people.
God is the God of LIVING PEOPLE. When? IN THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.  "Concerning
THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, [that's how] God is the God of the living.,

God be with you,
Ray


Marques

[EKnight]

Aaahh Marques, you beat me to it.  I found this as well. I think I may have gained a better understanding in the last five minutes.  But I guess it doesn't hurt to bring something up again that obviously others have wrestled with in the past and will probably continue to wrestle with in the future.

Eileen

   
   
God of the Living
« on: May 26, 2008, 05:35:50 PM »
   
I was asked where I was going to go when I died. Since I am a reader of the truths revealed to you I said I was going to the grave to await my change. This was through e-mail correspondance I was sent back these following scriptures and don't how to respond to them due to mylack of knowledge could you please help.

     
    Matt-22:32, Mark 12:26,27, Luke 20:37,38. If you could i would be grayeful.
       I know of your affliction and you are in my prayers daily for the Lords will be done
     
                             Bud
     

    Dear Bud:  Understand something up front:  Those who worship the damnable heresies (II Pet. 2:1) of the pagan Greeks and Egyptians--immortal soul, depart to a heaven or an eternal hell at death, etc., will never admit error just because you show them the Scriptures that deny their false doctrines. And why is this?  Because they despise the Word of God. The love their religion and its pagan doctrines, but they despise the Word of God. So that when you show them the Word of God they will deny that it is speaking an eternal truth. Christians worship the god of "context, context, context," but when you show them how something is used in "context," they then deny the whole "context" scenario. These Scriptures are so easily understood with a little of God's Spirit, that one wonders how any Christian theologian would have the gall to argue against what our Lord has said, but they do. Okay let's look at these verses IN CONTEXT:
     
    Matt. 22:32--"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.  God is not the God of the dead, but of the LIVING.
     
    Mark 12:27--"...He is not the God of the dead, but the God of he living: ye therefore do greatly err."
     
    Luke 20:38--"For He is not a God of the dead, but of the LIVING: for all live unto Him."
     
    Now then, what have we read?  God is not the God of the dead.  Why not?  Because there is zero response to God from dead people. "...for the living know that they shall die, but the DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING" (Ecc. 9;5).
     
    Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

    But will an orthodox Christian believe this verse? OF COURSE NOT. What happens to a person's thoughts when he dies?

    Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

    Will an orthodox Christian believe and accept this verse, that dead people are dead and have no knowledge or thoughts of any kind?  OF COURSE NOT.

    Now then, did Jesus say that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are NOT dead? Did he actually say that?  No, He did not.  But He did say that "God is the God of the LIVING," didn't He?  So how can God be the God of Abraham when God is God of the living, but Abraham is DEAD?  Just read the verse before and it is clear as the noon day sun:

    "But as TOUCHING THE  R-E-S-U-R-R-E-C-T-I-O-N  OF THE  D-E-A-D  ...God is the God of the LIVING" (Matt. 22:31)!

    "And as TOUCHING THE DEAD, THAT THEY RISE: have ye not read....God [is] the God of the LIVING..." (Mark 12:26).

    "...being the children of the RESURRECTION.  Now that the DEAD ARE RAISED [RESURRECTION], even Moses showed...God [is] the God of the LIVING" (Luke 20:36-38).

    So just exactly, precisely, doctrinally, Scripturally, truthfully, is "God the God of the Living" to people who are still DEAD?  THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, by BRINGING BACK THE DEAD, by RAISING UP THE DEAD, so that they may again have "thoughts" of praise and "know" Who the True God is.

    Now then, will your Christian friend see how they "GREATLY ER" (Mark 12:27)? I think not, but it would be great if I were wrong and your friend believed this simple Scriptural truth and repented of his heresy and idols of the heart.

    God be with you,

    Ray

[Vangie]

I'm slow on the typing, but hope maybe this might help too.

To add to Marques' post, why would he be God to someone who's not even conscious?  That still doesn't undo that He was, is, and will be God to other people who lived before, during, and after us. 

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

We should really try not to get bogged down in the letter, so that we can absorb the spirit of the message itself.  God is LOVE, he is Lord of ALL--in ALL...he is SOVEREIGN.  Whether we in our own carnality get it, is irrelevant.  When we try to find the contradictions rather than see his sovereign plan, we fall prey to stumbling in our own flesh.  We can't bring God to our level, we have to try to rise to HIM.  Not meant as a pun, but I just realized it works in relation to the resurrection! 

Of course, all according to His will being done.

Love in Christ,
Vangie

[Marlene]

Vangie, I am starting to think like you. Us ones new to this are not at the same place as others. But, we do come in here with questions because our eyes have not been opened about all things. Thats, why they give us  who do not understand scriptures and they take the time to hunt for Ray's articles that talk about questions we have.  As long as they do it with love, and take in to count others are not where they are scriptures are the ony way to make us see. It seems it has been done in love here. I see many people looking for so many things to help us with our blindness. Now, it is up to god to make us see.

But, if we don't see it is not there fault or ours. God is in control of that. But, it seems all was in love in these post. God did open my mind with post from all of them in here. Like Beloved said, Babylon does not see cause they think everyone goes to Heaven upon death. I have always know there has to be ressurection. But, I see where Eileen was coming from. But, the scriptures Marques gave last and email from Ray turned the lights on for me. The dead are in there graves till ressurection, but we have the promise that we will all be living upon ressurection.  So god is god of the living not of the dead.

When, I first joined here I was too worried about the ones in Babylon and how they would be treated. Well, after being taught the Hell Lie. I could not see me with all my flaws even able to go to Heaven. But, a great thing came out of that. God led me to truth. I came in here. He sent me here. I did not come in here by chance. Some things I believed different then Babylon teachings. I never was one much for rituals. As for anyone thinking they were chosen, I for one would never say I am. I don't think any of the others would either

God made me hate the Hell like before I came in here. If, I was not hating Hell , I doubt I would have believed a thing even through the scriptures were there to proof it. I was blind. I still have blind areas. Well, I have said, more then enough. But, glad all put up with the blindness. It teaches them patience with us. But, it also teaches us to be patient with God. They all just hope to see us grow in to maturity. I am growing but have a long ways to go.

In His Love,
Marlene

P.S. When, God showed me my faults. It hurt for sure. But, it was a good hurt. Because, seeing them is what made me wake up.  We are sensitive people.
But, that can be bad too. I just have to remember everyone is not out to get me. But, I also, believe we can beat people up , when they just can't see.
That, is when the moderators come in and say this is enough. I think all for most part have good intentions.

[aqrinc]

After reading this thread again i went searching for Scripture to finish and round off the discussion.
1st Corinthians 15: 1-50 is what i found to (as Ray's says) bookend this discussion. It is a long read;
but i included all since when read in it's entirety it makes all the difference for me. Ray has done
extensive work and teaching on this subject; so we can with a bit of work; learn to be well prepared
whenever someone asks us the reason for our Hope.

1Co 15: 1-50 (ESV)
1  Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
2  and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
3  For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
4  that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
5  and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
6  Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
7  Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
8  Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
9  For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10  But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.
11  Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
12  Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13  But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.
14  And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.
15  We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised.
16  For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised.
17  And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
18  Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
19  If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20  But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21  For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
22  For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
23  But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
24  Then comes the end (consumation), when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
25  For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26  The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27  For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he (GOD) is excepted who put all things in subjection under him (Jesus Christ).
28  When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him (GOD) who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
29  Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?
30  Why are we in danger every hour?
31  I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!
32  What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."
33  Do not be deceived: "Bad company ruins good morals."
34  Wake up from your drunken stupor, as is right, and do not go on sinning. For some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame.
35  But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?"
36  You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
37  And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain.
38  But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body.
39  For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.
40  There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another.
41  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42  So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.
43  It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45  Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46  But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.
47  The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.
48  As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.
49  Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
50  I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

There is much more, but this will suffice to get the gears turning and sharpen the Sword (Scripture knowledge).

george.

[judith collier]

O.K. now Luke 20 chap. 38. NOW, God is the God of the dead. How are we alive (ALL) in Christ? This is a pure as pure question as can be. Note, this is a bit different. I hate to argue so never take something I say as arguing but as questioning. If I knew for sure (or thought I was sure) I would just quit and go away, but I am not going anywhere. And I still believe the subject of answering inquiring questions--- hold on, then WHO are you addressing when you put out verses like Mark 4, chap. 11 and 12? I am NOT alone in this and I do KNOW this one.(not being alone in this questioning and answering) Are not these verses put to us(the questioners) These verses insinuate to us (coming from YOU ) (The WORD of GOD USED against the questioners)  and believe me please when I say I am not accusing you but questioning why verses are thrown out implying(?) if we don't get it , it is because we don't see as you do(knowing) and if our eyes were just a bit more opened by God then all will be well and we would agree. Perhaps, could it be maybe the teachers could do better? For every million who believe the same there are another million who believe different. I am striving to understand the tactics here and I would NOT use this method Ever for those who are seeking. I have learned more from people explaining the verses than being hit over the head with them. And I still love all of you, honestly. Judy

[mharrell08]

O.K. now Luke 20 chap. 38. NOW, God is the God of the dead. How are we alive (ALL) in Christ? This is a pure as pure question as can be. Note, this is a bit different. I hate to argue so never take something I say as arguing but as questioning. If I knew for sure (or thought I was sure) I would just quit and go away, but I am not going anywhere. And I still believe the subject of answering inquiring questions--- hold on, then WHO are you addressing when you put out verses like Mark 4, chap. 11 and 12? I am NOT alone in this and I do KNOW this one.(not being alone in this questioning and answering) Are not these verses put to us(the questioners) These verses insinuate to us (coming from YOU ) (The WORD of GOD USED against the questioners)  and believe me please when I say I am not accusing you but questioning why verses are thrown out implying(?) if we don't get it , it is because we don't see as you do(knowing) and if our eyes were just a bit more opened by God then all will be well and we would agree. Perhaps, could it be maybe the teachers could do better? For every million who believe the same there are another million who believe different. I am striving to understand the tactics here and I would NOT use this method Ever for those who are seeking. I have learned more from people explaining the verses than being hit over the head with them. And I still love all of you, honestly. Judy

Luke 20:38  For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

1 Cor 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

John 5:25-27  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 6:33&35  For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world...And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life


Judy,

If these and other scriptures given are not helping, perhaps you could begin a new thread. This way you could start from the beginning and explain, in more detail, your question(s).


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Kat]

Hi Judy,

Luke 20:38  For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him."

The "dead" in this Scripture I believe is talking about those who are "carnal minded" and do not know Christ.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

As verse 6 continues we have "life" if we have the spirit of Christ indwelling or as Luke 20:38 says "live to Him."

Well I have more Scripture, but that is the only way I know how to explain truth.

Rom 8:9  But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

So you see when Christ is indwelling you are considered "in the spirit" - life.

Rom 8:10  And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

So with the spirit of Christ indwelling our fleshly carnal "body" is dead, because... back in verse 9 "you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit."

Rom 8:11  But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

I think this Scripture passage below will help you also.

Rom 6:1  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
v. 2  Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
v. 3  Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
v. 4  Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
v. 5  For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
v. 6  knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
v. 7  For he who has died has been freed from sin.

This is talking about "died" to the carnal fleshly self, by the indwelling of Christ.

v. 8  Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
v. 9  knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.


mercy, peace and love
Kat