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Author Topic: Kingdom of God Timeline?  (Read 4592 times)

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lferretj

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Kingdom of God Timeline?
« on: February 17, 2009, 07:40:51 PM »

 Matthew 16:27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

 Matthew 19:28Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[f] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal (aionios) life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Revelation 20:11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

Hello Everyone,
  Another question for you--Is Matthew 16:27 a different event than Matthew 16:28?  It reads like the same event but it seems to me to say that the Kingdom will come in their lifetimes and they will be judged according to their works at that same time within their lifetimes.  However I took the Kingdom to be more of a spiritual state where you have the life of Jesus in you--spiritually minded not carnally minded, one of the few.  And Matthew 19:29b where it talks about inheriting "eternal" life--don't believers have this aionian life now?  Didn't the apostles have that aionian life after Jesus was resurrected?   Why would they not get "eternal" life until the renewal of all things?

  In Matthew 19:28-30 and Revelations 20:11-13 it seems to be future "at the renewal of all things" Jesus will sit on His throne and judge our works.  I guess I'm confused on the order of events (Coming in His Kingdom, Judging, Sitting on His Throne, "Eternal" Life) and how these three passages fit into it. Also if their are any differences in the terms Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven. Any help or a reference back to which paper Ray mentions these in would be helpful.  Thanks

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mharrell08

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Re: Kingdom of God Timeline?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 08:55:47 PM »

Matthew 16:27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

 Matthew 19:28Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[f] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal (aionios) life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Revelation 20:11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

Hello Everyone,
  Another question for you--Is Matthew 16:27 a different event than Matthew 16:28?  It reads like the same event but it seems to me to say that the Kingdom will come in their lifetimes and they will be judged according to their works at that same time within their lifetimes.  However I took the Kingdom to be more of a spiritual state where you have the life of Jesus in you--spiritually minded not carnally minded, one of the few.  And Matthew 19:29b where it talks about inheriting "eternal" life--don't believers have this aionian life now?  Didn't the apostles have that aionian life after Jesus was resurrected?   Why would they not get "eternal" life until the renewal of all things?

  In Matthew 19:28-30 and Revelations 20:11-13 it seems to be future "at the renewal of all things" Jesus will sit on His throne and judge our works.  I guess I'm confused on the order of events (Coming in His Kingdom, Judging, Sitting on His Throne, "Eternal" Life) and how these three passages fit into it. Also if their are any differences in the terms Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven. Any help or a reference back to which paper Ray mentions these in would be helpful.  Thanks


Lferretj,

Have you read any of Ray's Lake of Fire series (www.bible-truths.com)? This series covers much of what you are asking.

As well as the audio 'Gospel of the Kingdom' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.html).



Marques
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lferretj

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Re: Kingdom of God Timeline?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2009, 09:09:36 PM »

Yes i just read through it again actually (the LOF series), I must have read over some part and need to re-read it, their is so much information I tend to confuse myself unintentionally.  I'll try the audio you suggested, I haven't listened to that one yet.  Thank you.  All was making perfect sense until I came across Matthew 16:27-28.  I'm hoping to find Ray's explanation on this set of verses but when I did a refined search within bible-truths I couldn't get anything relevant to pop up.
           lferretj
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Kat

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Re: Kingdom of God Timeline?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2009, 02:11:16 PM »

Hi lferretj,

To understand God's plan you realize that His work is a process through the ages.  We are now in the 'church age' where the whole world is deceived and Satan is on his throne. 

Rev 2:13  "I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is.

John 18:36  Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world.

In this present age the world is experiencing the flesh, in all it's carnality, good and bad.
But there are a very few that God is choosing out of this world now, to prepare them.  These are His Elect and to them the kingdom has come, in SPIRIT.

Here is a section from the transcript of the 'The Gospel Of The Kingdom.'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.msg49588.html#msg49588 ---

                                  THE ISRAEL OF GOD

Letís see what Peter had to say about all this, in case you think Peter didnít understand some of this stuff.  Actually Peter was pretty good with the Scriptures.  You remember who Jesus Christ gave the keys of the kingdom of heaven to?  Peter.  Peter had it all worked out, he had a little problem there at Antioch, but after that he had it all worked out from then on.

1Peter 2:9  But ye (he is talking to Gentiles) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own peculiar (special) peopleÖ

Does that sound a little bit like Exodus 19?  I will make out of you a royal priesthood, a holy nation.    Where do you think Peter got it? 

Exo 19:6  And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

A chosen generation, a royal means kingly priesthood, a holy nation.  A peculiar people, that comes out of about 3 different Greek words, the pronoun 'his' is in there and peculiar really means special.  So what this is saying is, you are His - Godís precious people.  Thatís pretty neat, you are His precious people, not the Israel of old, not the Israel that came down through the seed of the devil, that was who?  The Scribes and the Pharisees and they personified it, the leadership of the church and the Temple system, personified the nation.  Not that seed, the seed of the devil. 
You are the seed of Jesus Christ, you are of this Israel of God, like Paul talked about in Galatians.

Gal 6:16  And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them and upon the Israel of God.

1Peter 2:9  Öso that you might speak of the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

So the kingdom of God is what?  The Israel of God!  Itís those who through the faith of AbrahamÖ that is the same faith that God gave to Abraham He gives to us, thatís the faith of Abraham.  We become this peculiar, special people to God. 

Now get this.  Here's what He said we are.  He said I will have a nation and I will have a people and it didnít happen... but it was a type, a shadow of something that will happen. 

The writer of Hebrews tells us that there is an Israel of God, those who are baptized in the Spirit, circumcised in the Spirit and they are now spiritual Israel, Jews.  They are the real Jews, the ones that are converted in heart and mind and spirit.  Then Peter comes right out and says, you are that royal family, that special people, that kingdom of priests, that holy nation, thatís what you are. 

So what is it?  Itís the gospel of the kingdom.  What is the kingdom?  YOU - WE are the kingdom!  How about that.  We are the kingdom.  Itís the gospel, the good news of the kingdom.  When you are spiritually converted and you are holy and you are circumcised in spirit and mind and soul and heart you are a spiritual Jew.  You are the one that He said back there, Iím going to make you a holy nation, Israel, but not that Israel, that was a type.  That was a shadow, that was only going to be a nation of people living in a certain land. 

This kingdom is going to what?  Bless all the nations.  This is a big kingdom and itís a spiritual kingdom, because the more we do away with the flesh, the more spiritual we get.  The more we die to the flesh, the more we grow to the spirit. 

So itís not as negative as it seems when you get old and decrepit like me.  The flesh is dying, but hopefully the spirit is growing.  Where as I use to be dead in my spirit and soar in my flesh, now Iím almost dead in my flesh and soaring in my spirit.  Thatís good, thatís the way it should be.  Do you see that in your life?
------------------------------------------------
Gospel Of The Kingdom audio part one:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/M05 GospelOfTheKingdom_p1.mp3
Gospel Of The Kingdom audio part two:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/M05 GospelOfTheKingdom_p2.mp3

So there is a very few being prepare to which the kingdom has come. 
But what about the rest of the world?  There time will come too, but first Satan will be removed.

Rev 20:1  Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain.
v. 2  And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
v. 3  and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.

It is at this point in time when Christ will set His throne up in this world (on earth), not a literal throne, but His kingdom (those prepared that He has made ready) will replace Satan's kingdom and rule this world.

Rev 11:15 And, the seventh messenger, sounded; and there came to be loud voices in heaven, sayingóThe kingdom of the world, hath become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign unto the ages of ages.

So when Christ returns this is the time of the first resurrection.  He will resurrected the Elect and they will return to rule with Him. 

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Mat 25:34  Then the King will say to those at His right hand, 'Come, O blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

Rev 21:1  Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
v. 2  And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband;
v. 3  and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be with them;

Mat 25:31  "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[3] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
v. 32  All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
v. 33  And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
v. 34  Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
v. 35  for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;

This is also the resurrection of the dead, when judgment comes on the world.  It is then that the rest of the world will go through the process of being made into His image, in the Lake of fire.

Mat 25:41  "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting (eonian) fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
v. 12  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
v. 13  The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
v. 14  Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
v. 15  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

There is an order, I hope this helped your understanding some.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 09:11:06 PM by Kat »
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aqrinc

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Re: Kingdom of God Timeline?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 09:35:52 PM »


Hi lferretj,

I ran a little interferance for you, check out the link below it should help.

Who's standing here?

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5858.msg47465.html#msg47465

Ray has addressed your question here at other places, i have to do more of a search.

george. ;D

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lferretj

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Re: Kingdom of God Timeline?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2009, 03:03:20 PM »

Thank you for your replies and the articles that were posted, they did help.
This is the verse I was confused on--

Matthew 16:27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Correct me if I'm wrong but verse 27 is talking about the future when indeed the world is judged--it can be compared to what Ray posted about Matthew 25:31

Mat 25:31  "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[3] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
v. 32  All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
v. 33  And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
v. 34  Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
v. 35  for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;

This is also the resurrection of the dead, when judgment comes on the world.  It is then that the rest of the world will go through the process of being made into His image, in the Lake of fire.


But then Verse 28 is talking about the church age, now, when it talks about being in the kingdom. Luke 17:20-22
 20Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."
  After Jesus was resurrected and the disciples received the Holy Spirit they became part of the Kingdom of God when they were still alive physically.

So the two verses are two different events.  That would solve my dilemma.  Is this how other people see it?

 lferretj
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Kingdom of God Timeline?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2009, 03:52:26 PM »

Thank you for your replies and the articles that were posted, they did help.
This is the verse I was confused on--

Matthew 16:27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Correct me if I'm wrong but verse 27 is talking about the future when indeed the world is judged--it can be compared to what Ray posted about Matthew 25:31

Mat 25:31  "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[3] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
v. 32  All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
v. 33  And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
v. 34  Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
v. 35  for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;

This is also the resurrection of the dead, when judgment comes on the world.  It is then that the rest of the world will go through the process of being made into His image, in the Lake of fire.


But then Verse 28 is talking about the church age, now, when it talks about being in the kingdom. Luke 17:20-22
 20Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."
  After Jesus was resurrected and the disciples received the Holy Spirit they became part of the Kingdom of God when they were still alive physically.

So the two verses are two different events.  That would solve my dilemma.  Is this how other people see it?

 lferretj


Email reply from Ray regarding Matt 16:28 (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5855.0.html):

As for "There be some STANDING H-E-R-E which shall not taste of death, TILL [till mean 'until,' and then when the 'till' has occurred, THEY WILL TASTE OF DEATH] they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom" (Matt. 16:28).  And just when DID they see this?  Answer--next verse:

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Where they really, actually, literally, in the flesh "talking with Jesus?"  No. Read verse 9:

Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

It was all a "VISION."  It happened in their minds, not unlike a dream--it was only a VISION, but in that vision, they really did see Jesus as He will appear "IN HIS KINGDOM).

Hope this helps your understanding. The Scriptures do not contradict their own truths.

God be with you,

Ray



Lferretj,

Verse 28 is not talking about a 'church age' but some "standing here" as he was talking to his disciples. Though Paul prophecies that not all will be dead when Christ returns to judge the world in righteousness ["...We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" (1 Cor 15:51)]

You are making an assumption in regards to Luke 17:20-22 when you state 'they became a part of the Kingdom of God when they were still alive physically'. No scripture interprets itself [2 Pet 1:20] no matter how simple we think it sounds as we need 2-3 scriptural witnesses [Matt 18:6, 2 Cor 13:1] to make a spiritual match [1 Cor 2:13, Acts 15:15].

Christ stated the kingdom of God 'is WITHIN you'. Like a seed or an earnest down payment.

Eph 1:13-14  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

2 Cor 5:5  Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Matt 13:31  ...The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed

Mark 4:26  ...So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground



Hope this helps,

Marques
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lferretj

  • Guest
Re: Kingdom of God Timeline?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2009, 07:13:02 PM »

Thank you for all the replies, that last tidbit from Marque helped me understand better--the inheritance point was what was throwing me off.  Their is so much to learn and I'll have to be more careful in making assumptions.  I feel like I need to have the whole scriptures memorized in order to be able to find the witnesses, but that's why we study.  I was trying to see something that wasn't there and thus became confused.  This is all pretty new to me so I'm glad to have people to ask questions and set me back on track. Again thank you.
         lferretj
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