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[saladking]

I used to go to an Open Brethren Church and left it over 2 years ago because of the disrespect that the leadership had about my belief in UR.
Over the past couple of days I have had this desire to go to St Mary's Anglican Church in my local area.  In fact I was prepared to go today but it is raining and I would get too wet walking 20 minutes getting there.  I have made an occasional visit to that Church over the past 10 years or so, but haven't been back there for about 4 or 5 years now.  I can remember mentioning my belief to some of them there a while ago and was meet with acceptance from them and I even felt that some might have even been friendly to UR.  However, I also discovered not surprisingly that one or two in leadership expressed their free-will doctrinal belief.  It was like they believe that "God doesn't send anyone to eternal punishment.  The person's themselves choose to go there." Or "God will give everyone a clear choice between Heaven and Hell so that you will know clearly what your options are." And that eternal punishment may mean simply death.  Anyway, they were alot more accepting of differing views of others and would not talk down to anyone for believing differently.
It is a much better option than the Brethren Church that I was going to.  They have a statement of faith where one of the statements is that there is actual eternal punishment(torment) for unbelievers.
The reason that I didn't want to go to the Anglican Church was because I found it kind of boring.  Ha, what's there to stop me from finding that again?
Well, I find that it can be pretty isolating being by myself all of the time accept for being involved in GROW, which is a community mental health movement for people that have had mental breakdowns and also as a preventative measure against having a breakdown.  But there is only 3 of us still involved in our weekly meetings.  There used to be more but many have left.  3 is the minimum number, and so now if one more person stops comming then we won't be able to have our get togethers.
I'm thinking that I had better have something social like going and meeting at a Church where other people are, to try and protect my mental health.  We all require a certain amount of social contact.
The decision is mine I know.  I wouldn't be prepared to take part in the communion, or even sing their songs, but just be where other people are around me might not be a bad idea.
I might go once and then decide what, or see how the spirit moves.
I haven't posted very much here since introducing myself because what is there to report.  I don't have much contact with other people to report much and can't identify with most people here that have plenty of social connection with others in their lives.

David.

[mharrell08]

Luke 9:62  And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God

Prov 26:11  As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.



Marques

[eggi]

Hi David,

My advice: Don't go.
If you are looking for something social, why don't you join a knitting club?

God bless you,
Eirik

[aqrinc]

I can say from my experience that when I was going to Church the fellowship was very attractive.  The leaders were very nice and looked good.  Their lives reflected that they are well to do.  And it is true.  Most of the people at Church assemblies are really nice people.  What a shock I got when I discovered the truth that all will be saved.  When I mentioned it to some of the leaders, some of them turned really arrogant and patronising, and wouldn't be prepared to listen to a word that I had to say on it.  They can be subtly cruel that way.  They may not even know how insulting it is to be spoken to like that.  But if they would just think how they would feel in our shoes.  Yes, they are nearly always nice and kind when you agree with their doctrine.

Greetings.

Hi David,

I quote one of your first posts in here, to remind you of why you think you left in the first place.
Now why would you ever go back to what you know is wrong (free will maybe). We can find
reasons for everything we do and make them sound very good too. Here are a few Scriptures to
contemplate while looking back longingly at that great and wonderful (Sodom, Egypt, Babylon).

Lot was told to get out of Sodom; because it would be destroyed.

Gen 19:15-17 
15- And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy
two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

16-And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and
upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth,
and set him without the city.

17-And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life;
look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

Moses led Israel out of Egypt, they wanted to go back.

Num 21:5  And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us
up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our
soul loatheth this light bread.

Num 32:11 
Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land
which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:

Today: The Angel Of The Lord Cries mightily with a strong voice:

Rev 18:2 
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become
the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Rev 18:4 
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers
of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Knowing this; why would you still yearn to go back. We are called out told not to look back, then:
The Angel cried mightily, come out of her. Might be a good time to listen and stay out.

george.

[deftarchangel]

I don't have much contact with other people to report much and can't identify with most people here that have plenty of social connection with others in their lives.

David.

Hi David,

I had to sort of laugh when I read that last line, because I can sort of relate to that sentiment.  Yet, at the same time, probably more people here can relate to what you are going through than you might think.  I myself, having just moved to a new city nine months ago, haven't made ANY significant social connections during my time here.  Just a handful of people here and there that I exchange pleasantries with.  And I certainly haven't had a chance to fellowship with anyone, not since my Bible study group, back where I used to live, was dissolved as per the Lord's instructions three years ago.  All I really do is go to university, try and find a part-time job, and just stick to doing my own thing.  I'll surf the net, do my own research and Bible studying by reading Ray's articles and material from other Spirit-led people, and that's pretty much it.  I'm hardly living the Hollywood social party lifestyle. 

Is it lonely?  Sure it is.  But, I'm alright with that though.  At least for now.  I always tell people that I'm like a cat in that regard......usually I'll go off and do my own thing.  But when I want food or affection, that's when you'll see me show up and I'll give you my attention!      And I do have friends and family back home and other places with whom I communicate with mainly through the net.  So it's not so bad, in my opinion.  And I know the Lord is taking care of me right now.  I usually tell people it's my "Moses in the desert time."  Just me and God.  But I understand your concerns, especially as it relates to one's mental health, as prolonged solititude and no social contact is sometimes an ingredient in the recipe for a mental breakdown.  I always worry about myself, because you always read about those people who end up going postal on others, and just snap and go on a rampage. They're described beforehand as being "the quiet guy with no friends who was highly religious," and people look at that and go "is it any wonder he snapped?!?" (Like the Kevin Spacey character in the movie Se7en)  I'm just generalizing here, but that is often my fear that people will regard me as the next potential person to just breakdown and go loco on everyone.  But I don't think I'm there yet!     I'm kidding.  LOL!

As for going to church, I myself haven't been drawn to any.  I pass by at least 5 or 6 different churches during my daily routine, and none of them have anything for me.  And while I'm not going to tell you to flat out "don't go to church," I would say that if you're going to go to one, do it for the right reason.  That being, because you feel the Lord leading you to one, or as you said, if the Spirit should move you.  If you don't feel it, don't go simply because you're afraid of being alone.  The Lord will take care of your mental health, and may provide some fellowship some other way.  As others have posted, there are social activities outside of church that you can engage in.  Maybe this is your time to be alone, with just you and God.  Who knows.....except for Him of course!     Maybe even try finding some like minded people on here who perhaps live your city.  I wish I could find the thread from here that someone else had posted that had the same problem, because some people had some great advice on there too.  Thing is, I can't give you any great advice because each person, and their situation, is different, and so I'm not going to say that what worked for me is going to work for you.  That's up to the Lord as to how you will be spending your time, whether it's in fellowship with others and Him, or just simply with Him. 

Anyways, that's just my opinion and sympathy, for what it's worth.  May the Lord guide you and give you the faith and courage to trust Him with this.

Kind regards,

Rob

[Ninny]

Hi David,
I don't remember where you said you live, but you know there are a lot of places for people to have social contact without doing something you don't really feel comfortable doing.   Look in the newspaper for your community and see what kinds of workshops they might be having. Local theater groups, community awareness programs, usually there are lots of organizations where you can volunteer for stuff like "meals on wheels". I don't know what all might be available where you are.

You need to remember that YOU are responsible for YOU and that you have to step up and help yourself. I'm not saying you can't seek help, yes if you need to do that DO it! No church can really satisfy the need to be nurtured, they will for awhile but very soon you will stumble and eventually people will let you down. God will NEVER let you down! Helping others is a good way to restore your focus. When you help people who can't help themselves you suddenly don't feel so alone.
I wish I had a better answer for you. Years ago when I was a new "army wife" an older lady told me this, "Life is just what you make it, you will find yourself alone a lot being an army wife, so you can sit around and feel sorry for yourself or you can get out and see what the community offers, there are lots of things to do to take your mind off of your problems and to keep you busy." I always remembered that when we went to a new place and I was never lonely or homesick!
Wish I had some nuggets of wisdom, but I guess I don't!
Kathy

[Dave in Tenn]

Not to pile one, as I very much understand the social isolation you feel and pretty much live it here in my little place in the world as well, but I almost can't imagine a worse place to help your mental health than church.  The Gospel is precious and takes time to filter its way from the Preaching and Hearing to the Believing and doing.  To sit silently while someone preaches Doctrines that are not just wrong, but evil, would take much more of a toll on me than periods of loneliness.  It can't help things to be split in two like that.

I would agree very strongly with those suggesting options in community or volunteer work to get that interaction most of us need.  We are to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world.  That's where we can 'do' the gospel in humility.   

[saladking]

Thankyou for all of your replies.
I can remember a couple of months before I began posting on this forum this temptation hit me of going back to my old Church, which was crazy.  I planned on returning the next Sunday.  This feeling of needing social contact was driving me to return to the Church.  At the time I had been stressed I think and it was the low following the stress that bought about this temptation.  Anyhow it didn't last long and before the next Sunday arrived I had changed my mind and wondered what on earth had come over me.
The difference this time is that it is a different Church.  I think that I really don't want to feel this desire.  It is unusual.  I'm wondering now if perhaps after a few days this temptation will pass again and I will again be pleased that I'm out of the Church. 
If GROW continues, I should not need to go to Church for social contact.  I have just been worried that it will fold, and I think it might be wise to have something social in place in case.  It would be better if I don't end up going to Church again.  I'm aware too that I could end up disappointed.

David.

[aqrinc]

David,

Just a few OT Scriptures that you can always rely on whenever you get lonely or worried.
We all long for things we can see and feel; The unseen Things Of GOD are what we need.

Psa 73:28 
But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works.

Psa 115:11 
Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.

Psa 118: 8-9
8  It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
9  It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

Pro 3: 5-7
5  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6  In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7  Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

Pro 29:25 
The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.

george.

 

[Dave in Tenn]

I think 'temptation' is the right word, David.   

I found an old book a while after I'd come to believe.  "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis, the author of the Narnia novels and other works.  I may be wrong, but I believe he was Anglican.  THe book itself was a sort of non-denominational 'primer' on an overview of christian theology written for the common man, and unbelievers.  He actually does a very good job of detailing in plain talk many of the teachings of orthodox christianity. 

The last time I read it was a looooong time ago, and all I really remember was that it was a 'very helpful' book in my christian life at the time, and I recommended it to others.  Well, I picked it up after believing the Gospel of the Kingdom.  I couldn't believe that I'd ever thought something so 'wrong' was ever worthwhile.  Though I have been 'out of church' for a long time, that put a few 20-penny nails in the coffin of any desire I had left to go back.  I was sitting there in my chair arguing with a book!  No church wants ME in their pews if God gave me strength to say what I REALLY think.    

Hang in there.  God is able to make you stand. 

[saladking]

Actually Dave,
I can remember earlier on when I was newer to UR this lady from the Anglican Church who I thought believed in UR recommended me a book by CS Lewis.  It may have been the same book you mention.  I was dismayed and suspected that she wasn't convinced of UR at all, judging by how she was coming across to me.  It was disappointing because she would have  been the only person in my city that I knew agreed with UR.  I left a message on her answerphone tell her that I would rather not read the book.

David.

[cjwood]

hi david,
i re-read your newbie introduction post on the "introductions..." section of the forum. if you will go back to that section and type in "new zealand" in the search box at the to right, you will find the other new zealander introductions. maybe you are close by some of them, maybe not, but it would be a could way to meet others on the forum that live in your part of the world.

claudia

[EKnight]

Dear Roy:

    You don't need a church when you learn that YOU ARE THE CHURCH.  God is wherever you are, so don't feel deserted.

    God be with you,

    Ray

It never ceases to amaze me how subjects on this forum directly relate to something in my life exactly.  The above quote for instance.  A while back when my husband and I were in church, a priest we really liked was talking about how other religions break down into smaller and smaller one and eventually you will be the church of one.  I revisited this topic with my husband today.  I reminded him how profound we thought this was when the priest said it.  It was such a revelation to us that we talked about and remember it to this day.  However, now it rings true for me in a much more significant way.  I just said almost verbatim to the above quote to my husband today.  I reminded him of what the priest said and told him that it stuck with us for a reason, it stuck with us for TODAY because today I realized he was 100% correct, because today I realized that I AM THE CHURCH OF GOD.  I told him that today, I said exactly that to my husband today!!!  And now here I see Ray said it.  This is no coincidence.  God put that priest in my life and kept that sermon alive in me for this very day!  Amen, amen amen!!!!

Eileen

[saladking]

Hi claudia,
I rechecked the people that have posted on this forum.  Out of all those here in New Zealand that have mentioned where they live in New Zealand, the closest is Christchurch.  I'm from Dunedin.  Christchurch would be a 5 hour drive from where I live.  I don't have a car.  I believe that is pretty good really, as many here would have to travel alot further than that to come across a like-minded believer. Not as good as in Auckland though where they have a group that physically meets together regularly.

David.

[Marlene]

That, is awesome Eileen.  Amen
In His Love,
Marlene

[Samson]

Hello David,

Sometimes I have a desire to fellowship with like minded believers, but Spiritually speaking, I consider
whats written at 2Corinthians. 6:14-17(Do not be unevenly yoked with unbelievers).

Even if you wanted to find a Church denomination that teaches the Universal Reconciliation of All, a
"Christian" one, there are very few. In Pennsylvania, USA. there is only one that I know of. Even a
Christian Universalist Church might teach many other things that are false like; The Trinity, Immortality
of the Soul, the Wicked are in Heaven and even Free Will.

I was going to suggest that you could have telephone conversations with others from BT or to arrange
to meet with them, but now realize your from New Zealand. I think that there are a few members from
New Zealand, maybe Martinez, not sure.

I read somewhere on the internet, under the Universalism theme, that there are some individuals
throughout the mainline Denominations that believe in Universal Reconciliation, although their
Denomination might not officially teach it.

I don't have any desire to join a knitting or sewing club, , but weight training or Tennis might do;  .

                               Kind Regards, Samson.

[Falconn003]

If you should return to the dead church , don't drink the water and say you gave at the office


Rodger

[saladking]

 weight training

                               Kind Regards, Samson.

Weight training.  Now that is one of my greatest loves.  I still love to train even at almost 49 years of age.

[Samson]

 weight training

                               Kind Regards, Samson.

Weight training.  Now that is one of my greatest loves.  I still love to train even at almost 49 years of age.

Me Too Brother,

Even got my Wife(Freckle Girl) participating, I'm 52, but the recovery, joints and muscles aren't what they used
to be, 

                                      Kind Regards, Samson.

[Beloved]

There have to be some BT Kiwis that you can associate with too, you can meet every so often and share by internet

I searched a little in introductions here is one I found
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6714.0.html

beloved