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Author Topic: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?  (Read 4699 times)

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britt

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Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« on: February 22, 2009, 01:49:48 PM »

Is it OK to celebrate these holidays? When I was growing up, me and my family celebrated all three. I have always looked foward to taking my kids easter egg hunting or trick or treating one day. I have noticed that most of you on the forum are married and have children. My question is how do you guys celebrate these holidays? If you don't celebrate in the traditional ways, what kind of substitues have you came up with?

Christmas- How did the birth of Christ come to be celebrated by a santa clause that gives material gifts? As a believer, Is it alright to continue in this manner?

Easter- How did Christ risen become celebrated by an easter bunny? I don't see the connection there. Is it really that bad to let little kids hunt easter eggs? I was at a church once, and the preacher started screaming at the congregation because they were planning an easter egg hunt on the church lawn.

Halloween- Would I be worshiping demons if I let a child dress up like a firefighter and took him trick or treating for candy? It's not like kids are standing around a fire holding hands chanting HAIL SATAN! or anything.

What do you guy's think? I'd appreciate the wisdom.

Britt 
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Rene

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2009, 02:41:18 PM »

Hi Britt,

Here are a couple of email replies from Ray that may be of some help to you.

René


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2328.0.html

Hi Ray,

I was just wondering, what are your views on Halloween. Is it merely
a joyous day for the Pagans? A blasphemous day which should be shunned by
all?   Or just a commercial stunt?

Dear Jason:

All of the above: pagan, blasphemous, to be shunned and commercial.
It is tied to the Catholic "All Saints Day" which of course, is also pagan.
It is little different than the Fourth of July, Memorial Day, Labor Day, and Satint Patrick's
Day--Just another day to party.

God be with you,

Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2759.0.html

Dear Shannon:

Of course everyone says they want the truth and they want it straight until you give it to them. Hopefully, you are different.

Yes, Christimas and all of its accoutrements and paraphania (evergreen tree, orbs, eggs, mistletoe, presents, winter solstice, yule logs, fires, drinking, etc.) are also pagan. But then again virtually all who shun this day with great horror think nothing of having a traditional wedding with the same pagan acoutrements (vale, something old, something new; something borrowed, something blue, rings, rice, honeymoon, bells, wedding cake, etc.).  Then of course at least some of them have their boys in the Boy Scouts with all their pagan accoutrements (left-handed locking little finger hand shake, spirit of scouting, the insignia--fleur-de-lis, etc).  Did I mention that it was the pagans who whore shoes before the Christians.  The Scriptures tell us that we should "Be ye not righteous over much" (Ecc. 7:16). And Paul said: "To the pure all things are pure."  I just don't get all bent out of shape over these things.

I personally do not get caught up in the "spirit" of any of these things, but neither do I condemn those who do. These are things that each of us must decide in their own way. However, for what it is worth: Dumping Christmas for Hannukah seems to me like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

God be with you,
Ray

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britt

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2009, 02:51:48 PM »

Thanks Renee, I don't believe I've seen this e-mail before.
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musicman

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2009, 03:02:30 PM »

Your kid dresses up like a firefighter on Halloween?  How evil!!  Do you not remember Ray's breaking down the fireman analogy in the Kennedy letter?  It is considered blasphemy to dress up as the hopeful savior that churchianity claims christ to be.  Are you saying that it's OK to pretend to try and save those even if they don't want to be?  It's my understanding that by dressing up as a fireman on halloween, you are depicting christ as the single entity responsible for the weak attempt at saving people in a giant burning building, by himself.  Remember, most will be to high and out of the way for fireman christ to help (they will continue burning in hell).  Some will be too stubborn to allow the fireman to help them (they choose to reject the savior and will also burn in hell).  And some will be so heavy with sin (like a really fat lady that the fireman can't lift) that fireman christ won't be able to save them anyway (meaning, it's the eternal barbecue pit for them).  So, be carefull not to wear a costume symbolizing the hopeful savior on Halloween (the celebration of Satin).  Stick to dressing like a ghoul, goblin, devil, George DubYa, or some other frightening character.

P.S.

Don't forget the tithe.
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britt

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2009, 03:09:43 PM »

Musicman,

No, my kid does not dress up like a fireman. I don't have any kids. That was the first thing that jumped into my head when I gave my example. I totally agree with your stance on a supposed savior. Can anyone shoot me a link of Ray's Kennedy letter? Also, since it is pagan to celebrate these holidays. What are some of the alternatives out there for kids?
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Marky Mark

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2009, 03:25:20 PM »

Quote
Can anyone shoot me a link of Ray's Kennedy letter?
Here ya go.

http://bible-truths.com/kendy2.htm


http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm






Peace...   Mark
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britt

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 04:13:05 PM »

Thanks mark. I skimmed through, but did not find anything about this so called evil fireman :o I think the key word here is Analogy. It just sounds to me like ray used a fireman as an example to get a point across he was trying to make. I think firemen are great. ;) They are a great contribution to society. It is all in the eye of the beholder. While I think firemen are useful to the public, I personally don't see them as my savior.
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EKnight

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2009, 04:52:54 PM »

Georgiaboy,

I'm pretty sure musicman was being his sarcastic self.  ;)

Eileen
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britt

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2009, 05:22:20 PM »

Thanks Eileen. I have a long way to go before I figure out the personalities on this site. I hope he was being sarcastic. I was like who does this guy think he is calling my unborn son evil! I'll punch yo kool aid drinking music face! ;D(Sarcasticly) It was a blessing in disguse. It brought out a protective father instinct that I did'nt know was there. ;)
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Kat

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2009, 05:31:35 PM »


Hi Georgiaboy,

Once our eyes are opened we all have to determine how we will obey this truth while we still must live in this world.  

1Pe 2:10  Once you were no people but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy but now you have received mercy.
v. 11  Beloved, I beseech you as aliens and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh that wage war against your soul.
v. 12  Maintain good conduct among the Gentiles, so that in case they speak against you as wrongdoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.

This world becomes a hostile place for us with everyone seeking his own self interests.

Psa 14:2  The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God.
v. 3  They have all gone astray, they are all alike corrupt; there is none that does good, no, not one.

For the very few God is preparing and has set apart, you want to be careful not to be lured back, to get tangled up in the ways of the world again.

Deu 12:29  "When the LORD your God cuts off before you the nations whom you go in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land,
v. 30  take heed that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? --that I also may do likewise.'

It is a delicate balance to walk in this world and not get caught up in the ways of this world.  Ultimately it is only God that we need to be concerned with pleasing, as He knows our heart and our circumstances.  Just do the best you can.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Marky Mark

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2009, 05:44:23 PM »

Thanks mark. I skimmed through, but did not find anything about this so called evil fireman :o I think the key word here is Analogy. It just sounds to me like ray used a fireman as an example to get a point across he was trying to make. I think firemen are great. ;) They are a great contribution to society. It is all in the eye of the beholder. While I think firemen are useful to the public, I personally don't see them as my savior.
Quote
It just sounds to me like ray used a fireman as an example to get a point across he was trying to make.

Heres the fireman analogy Georgiaboy.

The Lake of Fire!

PART IV

UNDERSTANDING SPIRITUAL THINGS



http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html

TWO STUPID ARGUMENTS

I hate to waste precious space and time on stupid things, but I feel an urge to tell you about an argument and an analogy that Christian detractors of the Truth continually send to me. I often mention in my writings and in answer to e-mails, that Jesus Christ is THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD, and therefore, WILL SAVE THE WORLD. This should be axiomatic to even the youngest and newest minor in Christ, but sadly many Christian veterans of a half-century do not and cannot believe it.

One analogy that I have been given several times to prove that Christ can be the Saviour of the world, and yet NOT SAVE THE WORLD, goes like this: "When a fireman goes into a burning building to save trapped people, what happens if these trapped people refuse to be saved? Is the fireman not still a fireman simply because some do not wish to be saved?" Here we see the foolishness of the carnal mind at work desperately grasping for straws to support an unscriptural theory that Christ TRIES to save everyone (just like a fireman tries to save those trapped in a burning building), but is unable to save everyone because many REFUSE to be saved. Therefore Christ is STILL a Saviour even if He doesn’t save everyone. See the logic in this analogy?

See the utter foolishness in this analogy:

Only an insane person would prefer to be burned in literal torturing flames of fire rather than to be saved by a fireman! I have been told by Christians many times that most of humanity will CHOOSE to be burned in the pain of literal hell fire for all ETERNITY, rather than to be saved by Jesus Christ! THEY LIE!

Any fireman worth his salt will save men, women, children, and even cats, dogs, and other pets, WHETHER THEY WANT TO BE SAVED OR NOT. Imagine a mother being told by a fireman that he left her little girl back in a burning building because the little girl didn’t want to be rescued by a fireman?

Jesus Christ does not suffer the limitations of a fireman! Jesus Christ IS GOD! God does what He WILLS, and God wills to save all humanity (I Tim. 2:4 and Isaiah 46:9-11). Such stupid analogies themselves condemn the wicked and carnal minds of those who purpose them.

And I have a whole folder full of this inane argument from detractors of the Truth (I will paraphrase as different ones contain different aspects of the same argument): "Well if everyone is going to eventually be saved, as you teach Mr. Smith, then why should those of us who are following Christ now, not just go out and live it up? Why shouldn’t we go out and fornicate, get drunk, steal, kill, or do anything we want? Why not just enjoy life and have a happy time? Why should we obey God or pray or go to Church, or be concerned for other people now if we are all going to be saved later anyway?"

This is not an isolated argument—I get many such e-mails. Sometimes I just reply by saying: "Sir, it is not even necessary for me to answer your questions—you have answered them YOURSELF! You yourself have condemned your own darkened and unintelligent heart by the very stupid and foolish questions you ask. You prove to yourself by asking such things, that you do not really love your fellowman or God. You would PREFER to live a wicked life of selfish carnality and a continuous quest for physical pleasures of the flesh. You truly do not see the value of living a righteous, godly, and spiritual life. You condemn yourself as being unworthy of the Kingdom of God."

So here we have people who claim to believe in Jesus Christ and the goodness of God, who nonetheless, utterly condemn my teaching that Jesus Christ will SAVE THE WORLD, and often state that it is "I" who will be tortured in hell fire for all eternity for denying that there is such a place of eternal torture. Yet they themselves would prefer to live an ungodly life of sin and pleasure rather than to serve God from the heart out of love. I believe I have the mind of Christ when I say that all such attitudes will be judged in God’s consuming fire.






Peace...Mark

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cjwood

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2009, 05:53:59 PM »

Your kid dresses up like a firefighter on Halloween?  How evil!!  Do you not remember Ray's breaking down the fireman analogy in the Kennedy letter?  It is considered blasphemy to dress up as the hopeful savior that churchianity claims christ to be.  Are you saying that it's OK to pretend to try and save those even if they don't want to be?  It's my understanding that by dressing up as a fireman on halloween, you are depicting christ as the single entity responsible for the weak attempt at saving people in a giant burning building, by himself.  Remember, most will be to high and out of the way for fireman christ to help (they will continue burning in hell).  Some will be too stubborn to allow the fireman to help them (they choose to reject the savior and will also burn in hell).  And some will be so heavy with sin (like a really fat lady that the fireman can't lift) that fireman christ won't be able to save them anyway (meaning, it's the eternal barbecue pit for them).  So, be carefull not to wear a costume symbolizing the hopeful savior on Halloween (the celebration of Satin).  Stick to dressing like a ghoul, goblin, devil, George DubYa, or some other frightening character.

P.S.

Don't forget the tithe.











and herein lies proof that God does indeed have a sense of humor.  musicman, our very own funny bone.  :D :D :D :D


claudia
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britt

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2009, 05:59:45 PM »

Kat- Thanks for the word. I agree that it is difficult not to be tangled up in the world.

Mark- Thanks for the analogy. I can see musicman's humor now, or Mr. Funnybones  :)
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britt

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2009, 09:43:48 PM »

UMM! (clear throat)08  :-*  Like I was saying. There are alot of cool ideas out there that can replace the way we celebrate Christmas and Easter. Some of the websites have really good Idea's, but you will just have ignore some of the Babylon stuff that may be posted on there. I saw a good ressurection cookie recipe that looked fun for kids on a site...
 8)


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saladking

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2009, 10:28:50 PM »

Personally, I don't think we should get to legalistic.
Life is difficult enough for all of us.
Don't do this. Do that. don't touch. Don't celebrate this pagan festival etc.  Be so very careful to be absolutely upright in every little thing.  I couldn't be bothered before seeing the truth, and I also can't be bothered now being so particular about what might be sinning too much etc.
Get what I mean? ::)
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mhykx

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2009, 11:27:28 PM »

Ray was a member of old Worldwide Church of God.
So I guess, the teaching of Christimas, Easter, Halloween, a pagan came from this church although I'm absolutely sure he confirmed all of this by his personal study.  Actually, even celebrating one's birthday!  For that church, it is pagan too!
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mharrell08

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2009, 11:35:39 PM »

Ray was a member of old Worldwide Church of God.
So I guess, the teaching of Christimas, Easter, Halloween, a pagan came from this church although I'm absolutely sure he confirmed all of this by his personal study.  Actually, even celebrating one's birthday!  For that church, it is pagan too!


Christmas, Easter, Halloween are all based on pagan rituals and customs...long before the Worldwide Church even began. Ray does not teach the teachings of the Worldwide Church of God...he is only a former member who was dragged out like we all are dragged out of our respective Babylonian, harlot churches.

If members are going to imply that Ray said this or that without any quoted statements NOW, I'd hate to see how it will be if Ray could not be with us...



Marques
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mhykx

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2009, 11:55:37 PM »

Ray was a member of old Worldwide Church of God.
So I guess, the teaching of Christimas, Easter, Halloween, a pagan came from this church although I'm absolutely sure he confirmed all of this by his personal study.  Actually, even celebrating one's birthday!  For that church, it is pagan too!


Christmas, Easter, Halloween are all based on pagan rituals and customs...long before the Worldwide Church even began. Ray does not teach the teachings of the Worldwide Church of God...he is only a former member who was dragged out like we all are dragged out of our respective Babylonian, harlot churches.

If members are going to imply that Ray said this or that without any quoted statements NOW, I'd hate to see how it will be if Ray could not be with us...


Marques



What I meant was Ray must have first got the understanding that these customs are pagan when he was in WCG and not that WCG hold the doctrine uniquely.  And in the course of his studies, I guess he confirmed that they are so.  Or did he not?  Do I still need to quote him saying this?  I thought this is already a common understanding here in BT.  I'm sorry if it is not.  It is not my intention to put words to Ray's mouth that has not been said before.

Mike
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mharrell08

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2009, 12:06:51 AM »

What I meant was Ray must have first got the understanding that these customs are pagan when he was in WCG and not that WCG hold the doctrine uniquely.  And in the course of his studies, I guess he confirmed that they are so.  Or did he not?  Do I still need to quote him saying this?  I thought this is already a common understanding here in BT.  I'm sorry if it is not.  It is not my intention to put words to Ray's mouth that has not been said before.

Mike


Ray does not teach anything that he learned at WCG....I don't know where/how/why you may have thought that to be a common understanding. Just a misunderstanding I suppose...

I do not believe you or others are maliciously putting words in Ray's mouths...but it is starting to happen in off-hand remarks here and there. Some remarks are innocent in nature but it can build up from there so it is better to nip it in the bud than let escalate.


Thanks,

Marques
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Christmas? Easter? Halloween?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2009, 12:09:57 AM »

Here's an alternative to Christmas taken from my favorite 'Christmas' account.

John 1:14-16.  The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us.  We gazed on His glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father's unique Son, full of grace and truth.

John told the truth about Him when he cried out, "This is the person about whom I said, "The one who comes after me ranks ahead of me, because he existed before me."  From His fullness, we have all received one gracious gift after another.  For while the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.


Isn't saying (and believing) 'The One who comes after me ranks ahead of me because He existed before me...' the spiritual equivalent of acclaiming Jesus Christ is Lord?  Is He more Lord on Sabbaths?  Is He less Lord on public holidays?

Do we recognize that we have received one gracious gift after another?  Are we thankful for the gifts we have received?  Do these gifts include friends and family and a respite from work?  Aren't all those gifts inferior to the grace and Truth that came to us in Him?

Is He still tabernacling with us?  Is He now tabernacling in us?  Do we need reminders of that?  Doesn't Grace remind us of that?  If not, why not?

Just had to preach there for a minute.   :D

  

  
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
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