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Author Topic: A Marriage Question  (Read 2637 times)

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deftarchangel

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A Marriage Question
« on: February 23, 2009, 06:39:01 PM »

Forgive the stupid question, but I was just thinking about this while walking home today.  I read the transcript Ray did regarding what it was that defined a marriage.  But I'm just curious though....considering that the majority of people on here are no longer affiliated with denominational churches, who do you get to conduct a wedding ceremony?  Who do you get to "pronounce you husband and wife?"  Does it matter?  Can you get just anyone who you think is qualified?  Or should it be someone that is recognized by the governing authorities of the land that you live in (ie., a minister/chaplain/priest, or even a ship's captain) as being authorized to sign the marriage certificate (I guess this could be regarded as a personal-opinion question)?  If the latter, who do you go with, as different countries recognize different people as being "authorized" to sign the license?  I mean, you can go to Vegas and become a minister, practically overnight, simply to oversee your friend's wedding, and you're recognized as being "qualified" to sign the license and make it legitimate.  Is there a passage in Scripture that addresses this that someone can point me to?

No, I'm not getting married, it was just something I was pondering about today.  Ya never know.....the information could be of some use in the future.  ;)  I tried finding the answer in an archived thread, but nothing came up.  If anyone can link me to the thread or article where this question is answered, I'd appreciate it.

Anyways, thanks for your time.

Rob
 
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: A Marriage Question
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 06:50:38 PM »

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Ninny

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Re: A Marriage Question
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 07:13:35 PM »

Rob, I don't know how it is where you live, but in the US I know of several people who can marry others, they are judges, ministers, some church elders, ship commanders. there are probably others, but I don't know who they might be. Anyway, maybe others can tell you more than I. Getting married isn't really that hard to do! It's STAYING married that offers the challenge! ;) I've been married to the same guy for 37 years, I know!! ;D
Kathy :D
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: A Marriage Question
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 07:16:59 PM »

In the United States, a person can receive their marriage license from the local Probate court. A judge can also commence the 'ceremony' as well. It doesn't have to be done in a traditional church. That's pretty much it...was for my wife and I.


Marques
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Falconn003

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Re: A Marriage Question
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2009, 07:33:36 PM »

Forgive the stupid question, but I was just thinking about this while walking home today.  I read the transcript Ray did regarding what it was that defined a marriage.  But I'm just curious though....considering that the majority of people on here are no longer affiliated with denominational churches, who do you get to conduct a wedding ceremony?  Who do you get to "pronounce you husband and wife?"  Does it matter?  Can you get just anyone who you think is qualified?  Or should it be someone that is recognized by the governing authorities of the land that you live in (ie., a minister/chaplain/priest, or even a ship's captain) as being authorized to sign the marriage certificate (I guess this could be regarded as a personal-opinion question)?  If the latter, who do you go with, as different countries recognize different people as being "authorized" to sign the license?  I mean, you can go to Vegas and become a minister, practically overnight, simply to oversee your friend's wedding, and you're recognized as being "qualified" to sign the license and make it legitimate.  Is there a passage in Scripture that addresses this that someone can point me to?

No, I'm not getting married, it was just something I was pondering about today.  Ya never know.....the information could be of some use in the future.  ;)  I tried finding the answer in an archived thread, but nothing came up.  If anyone can link me to the thread or article where this question is answered, I'd appreciate it.

Anyways, thanks for your time.

Rob
 

Hmmmm

Whom or who do you think married Adam and Eve ???  ever ponder that Spiritual Truth :)

Witnesses::;

Genesis 2
24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Genesis 3
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;

20 Now the man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all the living. 21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them
.


Mark 10:9
Therefore, what God has joined together, man must never separate."

 

Growth and Understanding
Rodger
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 07:36:15 PM by Falconn003 »
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deftarchangel

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Re: A Marriage Question
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2009, 08:03:28 PM »



Hmmmm

Whom or who do you think married Adam and Eve ???  ever ponder that Spiritual Truth :)

Witnesses::;

Genesis 2
24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Genesis 3
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;

20 Now the man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all the living. 21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them
.


Mark 10:9
Therefore, what God has joined together, man must never separate."

 

Growth and Understanding
Rodger

Well, this was sort of along the lines I was thinking on.  I read in that thread that Mark linked (thanks, btw) that Ray suggested to the naysayers (who have said that Adam and Eve were never "officially" married) that God Himself married them, and the marriage was therefore official.  So, I guess my question is, who is qualified to take the place of God in pronouncing a marriage?  And it's a question that's been asked before in a previous post (but was never specifically addressed or answered), so I'm just going to copy and paste what the poster wrote here:

Beyond that, I know that often times the one who is conducting the ceremony will bring it to a climax by saying something similar to "By the power vested in me, I now pronounce you man and wife." 

But, what power?  Vested in him by whom?  Does he claim that God has given him the power to pronounce a couple as husband and wife?  Certainly there is no scriptural support for such a statement.  Should we rely on the proclamation of someone whom we know is a teacher of false doctrine (he's speaking about a priest/minister in a church) to officially proclaim a man and a woman being one flesh?  And should we assume that if it is not done in this way, then the couple is not officially married?  Again, I don't think there will be any scripture supporting that.


I'm not sure about the whole "no scriptural support" part, and so that's why I was asking for others more knowledgeable of the Scriptures to provide some insight. 

Though perhaps already too late, I'm not looking to make a mountain out of a molehill with this question.  Again, it was just something I was wondering about, since if ever I do get married, there are a couple of people who I have in mind that I would like to conduct the ceremony, but they don't have any "official" titles, per se, that is recognized by the gov't as being authorized to sign the license (then again.....I could be wrong about that....I haven't really researched that fact either).   

Anyways, thank you all for the responses and insight.

Rob
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mharrell08

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Re: A Marriage Question
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2009, 08:13:44 PM »

Well, this was sort of along the lines I was thinking on.  I read in that thread that Mark linked (thanks, btw) that Ray suggested to the naysayers (who have said that Adam and Eve were never "officially" married) that God Himself married them, and the marriage was therefore official.  So, I guess my question is, who is qualified to take the place of God in pronouncing a marriage?  And it's a question that's been asked before in a previous post (but was never specifically addressed or answered), so I'm just going to copy and paste what the poster wrote here:

Beyond that, I know that often times the one who is conducting the ceremony will bring it to a climax by saying something similar to "By the power vested in me, I now pronounce you man and wife." 

But, what power?  Vested in him by whom?  Does he claim that God has given him the power to pronounce a couple as husband and wife?  Certainly there is no scriptural support for such a statement.  Should we rely on the proclamation of someone whom we know is a teacher of false doctrine (he's speaking about a priest/minister in a church) to officially proclaim a man and a woman being one flesh?  And should we assume that if it is not done in this way, then the couple is not officially married?  Again, I don't think there will be any scripture supporting that.


I'm not sure about the whole "no scriptural support" part, and so that's why I was asking for others more knowledgeable of the Scriptures to provide some insight. 

Though perhaps already too late, I'm not looking to make a mountain out of a molehill with this question.  Again, it was just something I was wondering about, since if ever I do get married, there are a couple of people who I have in mind that I would like to conduct the ceremony, but they don't have any "official" titles, per se, that is recognized by the gov't as being authorized to sign the license (then again.....I could be wrong about that....I haven't really researched that fact either).   

Anyways, thank you all for the responses and insight.

Rob


Rob,

The power invested in them from the state. Forget the Reverends of Christendom...a judge of a local courthouse has 'power' to marry a man and woman from the state. That's all that's needed.

Rom 13:7  Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour


Marques
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Falconn003

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Re: A Marriage Question
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2009, 08:16:52 PM »

Rob "who is qualified to take the place of God in pronouncing a marriage?

You are asking a LOADED question , weather or not you are aware of this.

You are asking :::

what anti-chrsit can pronounce a marriage ?

what instead of God can pronounce a marriage ?

As for me, i can not indulged you with carnal thoughts nor anything anitchrist, look to the likes of TBN or perhaps the many carnal forums in the internet for such an answer.  

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 
Bible Truths as the name implies, does not promote antichrist/INSTEAD of God.

May you find your answer
Rodger
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 08:20:08 PM by Falconn003 »
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aqrinc

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Re: A Marriage Question
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2009, 08:39:12 PM »


Hi Rob,

I just scanned the paper by Ray again that Mark gave you a while ago; to get you the answer you
are looking for. It is plainly written in this paper, what is the Ceremony of Marriage, and then The
Institution Of Matrimony and who can conduct the legal requirements. I see no ambiguities there,
so read the three excerpts i pulled out  to get your answers.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5675.0.html

3 Excerpts from: What is Marriage; by L Ray Smith.

A). God joined them together, that’s what nuptials are.  You take a vow and what happens at the end of the ceremony?  What does the minister usually say?  I now pronounce you husband and wife.  Why?  Because they are now joined together. 
Did they have sex?  No.  What did they do?  They took the vows, they formed a covenant in front of witnesses, in a ceremony called a wedding in a public gathering.  That’s what marriage is.  It’s the joining of a unmarried man and a unmarried woman together in a public setting with witnesses, exchanging vows and making a covenant to be husband and wife with one another as long as you both shall live.  That’s what a wedding is.  That’s what nuptials are.  That’s what ‘marry’ means, that’s what a marriage is, that’s what starts the matrimony of two people.

B). You know there may be more scriptures, I mean I just put this together in basically a day.  There was a lot to put together, but I was even doing others things too…. I answered emails…. ran errors, whatever else I had to do.  So if I would have spent weeks on this, who knows what else you could come up with.  There may be a lot more that I over looked.  But I think there is enough here to make the point.  What is a wedding?  What is a marriage?  Okay that is just the first point of what is a marriage.

(2)  Now from the scriptural point of view, marriage is a covenant.  I’m going to quote some excerpts that I took from Rotherham’s translation, rather than King James.
 
Malachi 2:14  “Yet ye say, For what cause?  Because, Yahweh, hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, with whom, thou, hast dealt treacherously, though, she, (here is where we learn one more aspect of what God has to say constitutes a marriage) was thy consort, and thy covenant wife.”

What does God throw in here as a necessary part of being legally married and being a husband and a wife?  A covenant!  We saw from the traditions of Israel, even the espousal, even the engagement was legal. 
They have found actual marriage contracts, Jewish marriage contracts that go back to the 5th century B.C.  So this idea of, ‘well they didn’t have ceremonies.’  Yes they did.  In fact Malachi was written about 500 B.C.

(3)  Jesus used a wedding ceremony in a parable.  Matt. 22: 8  “Then saith he to his servants, the wedding is ready (what is the wedding?  The ceremony, the wedding is the ceremony), but they which were bidden were not worthy.” 
Are we bidding people here to the married couples’ house or into their bedroom while they are having intercourse or something?  This is the CEREMONY of getting married.  He puts His approval on the ceremony, because that’s what the wedding is.  The wedding is the marriage ceremony, that’s what it is.  Christ is putting His approval on it and building a parable around it.

(4)  Christ’s first miracle was at a wedding.  It says a marriage in the King James, but it should be wedding.  The only place where that word ‘marriage’ really fits is in Heb. 13:4, where it says the bed is undefiled and so on.  Where Concordant has it translated matrimony.  This was a wedding!  He was invited, He came, He puts His approval on it by turning water into wine and contributing to the marriage festivities, the marriage supper.

c). But notice what the opposite is, if it’s not marriage,  “…but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.”  If you are not in matrimony in your wedding bed, what does God consider you?  A whoremonger and a adulterer.  Now do I need to read Rev. 21:8, “All whoremongers will find their place in the Lake of fire.”  Is that not clear enough there?  People don’t put these things together.  If you are not married, but you live together, you are a whoremonger and adulterer. 

So how important is this ‘piece of paper’ as people like to spit it out.  It’s very important.  Not that the piece of paper itself is necessarily important.  But what the piece of paper represents, a formal ceremony in public with witnesses, making a contract through nuptial oaths in agreement to be a husband and wife, that’s very important to God.  Very important.

(9)  Marriage comes under the category of;

Rom 13:7  Render to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

This is talking about the laws of the land, the governments, the enforcement people and everything else, and all of the regulations that come out of cities and counties and so on.  “…tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom…”   You may be familiar with someone who has as much as spit on this.   You don’t just have to obey the laws, it says you have to obey the customs too.

george. :)


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deftarchangel

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Re: A Marriage Question
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2009, 08:50:12 PM »

Thanks george and marques, and everyone else.  That answers my question sufficiently.   :)


Rob
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Akira329

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  • Posts: 718
  • "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
Re: A Marriage Question
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2009, 03:05:15 AM »

Good! That was great :D

Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

Roy Martin

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Re: A Marriage Question
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2009, 02:30:44 PM »

An eye opener for me too.
When I first started to read all the replies above I was not so convinced, but with further reading I can see that I was wrong in how I have always thought that mans law is far from being Gods way.I have no doubt that mans law is not right in most things but I do believe in Gods way.
Roy Martin
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