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[Daniel]

Amen Jennifer!  GREAT POST!!!


Lots of wonderful thought out verses

The Lord bless YOU too sister


Daniel

[chrissiela]

Chrissie,
Looking at Zech. 13:9-And I will bring THE THIRD PART through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I WILL SAY, IT IS MY PEOPLE; AND THEY SHALL SAY, THE LORD IS MY GOD.

Here's what I notice: The phrase "THE THIRD PART" is shown in Zech. 13:8-In time, throughout that land, says the Lord, "two-thirds of those in it will be destroyed--they will die, but one-third will remain.

Breaking down Zech. 13:9 into bites, I will give you the appropriate witnesses (as I see them):

THE THIRD PART through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined:

1st witness is Isa. 48:10-"Look, I have refined you, but not (as severely) as silver; (rather) I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.

Jennifer, Are those words in parenthesis yours or are they in the translation that you are using? Just curious.  

The KJV, which I usually reference has “but not WITH silverâ€?, rather than “but not as silverâ€? (in Isa). That doesn’t even make sense!!   :lol:  But I do see where some of the other translations do have not as silver.

And will try them as gold:

1st witness is 1 Pet. 1:6-Rejoice in this, even though for a little while you may have to experience grief in various trials.
2nd witness is 1 Pet. 1:7-Even gold is tested for genuineness by fire. The purpose of these trials is so that your trust's genuiness, which is far more valuable than perishable gold, will be judged worthy of praise, glory and honor at the revealing of Christ the Messiah.

I wonder if there is a difference between being tried as silver and being tried as gold?

Silver here:

Psa 12:6  The words of the LORD

are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.[/list:u]WOW!!  :shock:  Maybe being tried WITH silver DOES make sense??  

Psa 66:10  For thou, O God, hast proved us:

thou hast tried us, as silver is tried.

Zec 13:9  And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.[/list:u]BOTH mentioned there!!


Gold here:

Job 23:10  But he knoweth the way that I take:

when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.

Zec 13:9  And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

1Pe 1:7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Rev 3:18  I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.[/list:u]

They shall call on my name and I will hear them:

1st witness is Ps. 50:15-and call on me when you are in trouble; I will deliver you; and you will honor me.
2nd witness is Zech. 10:6-I will strengthen the house of Judah and save the house of Joseph. I will bring them back in my compassion for them; they be as if I hadn't driven them out; for I am the Lord their God, and I will answer them.

AMEN!!

I will say it is my people and they shall say, the Lord is my God.:

1st witness is Jer. 30:22-You will be my people, and I will be your God."
2nd witness is Ezek. 11:19 & 20-"And I will give them unity of heart. I will put a new spirit among you. I will remove from their bodies the hearts of stone and give them hearts of flesh; Ezek. 11:20-so that they will live by my regulations, obey my rulings and act by them. Then they will be my people, and I will be their God.

Amen, the Lord is my God!!!!  [-o<

Grace be with you both.

Grace and Blessings, to you too!!

Chrissie

[jennifer]

Hi Chrissie,
I'm behind on answering all your questions, so I'll start with your post from Saturday, June 3 at 10:34 am.
First question you asked:  Where is Satan's seat?

It is the world-wide CHURCH of APOSTATE RELIGION. Read Jer. 51:9-We tried to heal Babylon, but she cannot be healed. So leave her alone and each of us will return to his own country. For the judgement against her rises to the skies and reaches even the clouds.                                   His ministers are listed in 2 Corn. 11:13-15 -The fact is that such men are pseudo-emissaries: they tell lies about their work and masquerade as emissaries of the Messiah. There is nothing surprising in that, for the Adversary himself masquerades as an angel of light; so it's no great thing if his workers masquerade as servants of righteousness. They will meet the end their deeds deserve.                                                         Satan is the god of this world: 2 Corn. 4:4-They do not come to trust because the god of this world has blinded their minds, in order to prevent them from seeing the light shining from the Good News about the glory of the Messiah, who is the image of God.

In reference to Luke 10:17-18 -And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through they name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

First, finish reading the thought by finishing verses 10:19 & 20: -"Remember, I have given you authority; so you can trample down snakes and scorpions, indeed, all the Enemy's forces; and you will remain completely unharmed. Nevertheless, don't be glad that the spirits submit to you; be glad that your names have been recorded in heaven."         This helps you to see that Jesus was speaking figuratively, alluding to the future ousting of Satan from heaven spoken of in Rev. 12:9-12.  Re-read especially verses 12:10 & 12 -Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, "Now have come God's victory, power and kingship, and the authority of his Messiah; because the Accuser of our brothers, who accuses them day and night before God, has been thrown out! (12)-"Therefore, rejoice, heaven and you who live there! But woe to you, land and sea, for the Adversary has come down to you and he is very angry, because he knows that his time is short!"

John 12:31 Now is the judgement of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Can you see how this verse (John 12:31) relates to Rev. 10 & 12?

What does Satan dine on? (paraphrasing you)

He dines on the manifestations from the carnal mind which is at eminity with our spiritual body.

Regarding Gen. 3:14, what is your question?

Your next question regarding the star Wormwood-where did it fall from/to?

Looking at other witnesses in the bible we can see that stars can represent rulership:  Num. 24:17-I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not soon-a star will step forth from Jacob, a scepter will arise from Israel, to crush the corners of Mo'av and destroy all descendants of Shet.

In the taunt-song against the king of Babylon we see the king's thoughts of raising himself above the earth making himself like God: Isa. 14:13-16
(13)-You thought to yourself, "I will scale the heavens, I will raise my throne above God's stars. I will sit on the Mount of Assembly far away in the North. (14)-I will rise past the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High! (15)-Instead you are brought down to Sh'ol, to the uttermost depths of the pit. (16)-Those who see you will stare at you, reflecting on what has become of you: "Is this THE MAN who shook the earth, who made kingdoms tremble,"
Even cities are portrayed as stars: Luke 10:15-And you Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Sh'ol!
Both these examples represent Wormwood qualities of ungodliness actions which take carnal self-exaltation to the grave.  

For your questions regarding the "third part" I believe I've responded already.  
As far as what happens to the third part prior to the LAST three sounds of the trumpet in Revelation and their relationship to sealing, these are best to be left to the anticipated papers from Ray, hopefullly soon forthcming.

Meanwhile, regarding Jn. 4:23,25,31 and Rom. 13:11 and 2 Cor. 1:26 and Rev. 12:10, try looking again at them with your spiritual eyes in the context of 'WAS,IS,WILL BE' and see if you can find the witnesses.  You are on to something---Now is profound.
Grace be with you.

[Daniel]

Some good points Jennifer, The locusts CAME OUT OF THE SMOKE, these are they which are "holier then thou" God speaks of in Isaiah, twice the "son of" in appearance as scorpions which have a "sting" given power to torment, I'm remembering "the tormentors" of the parable and being handed over to Satan for the "destruction of the flesh".

Satan the "flesh King" :lol:  He is King of all the children of PRIDE. Conceited (the trap of the devil) falling into the same condemnation. Pride goeth before destruction.

Having  King over them the angel of the bottomless Pit (Abaddon and Apollyon) is Destroyer and Destruction (broad way leadeth to). The King of Pride goes before them. Paul had been there and noow boasted in the power God gave him which was NOT for unto destruction (as these were "given" power) but unto their "edification".

Notice the pit is "opened" as death and destruction (which are "a way" we take) is naked before HIM how much MORE the HEARTS of MEN. Makes sense.

Locusts have no King and they yet they are shown having one, both arre true at the same time, its a paradox. They are led about by their pride, which is the very scales on their eyes. The term "pit" I'm thinking is as the blind leading the blind both fall into the pit (appointed). Under the images in revelation it helps to speak concerning the spirit of a thing.


The Sun and air are "darkened" by "reason" of the "smoke of the pit". The God of "this world" blinding them ( the pride of this life) through which one cannot see the light of the glorious gospel.

Pharoah references the locusts as "death", there are whats called "messengers of death". Your right they have no power over you. Their power is in fact given to them but in Christ you have been given power over them (scorpions). Even John ate locusts. Elizabeth was "hid" for five months, this is all the time they have, five months.

God does everything so perfectly, those who walk in pride He is able to abase and those scales in His time fall right off  :lol:

This is a wonderful study

Daniel

[chrissiela]

Hi Chrissie,
I'm behind on answering all your questions, so I'll start with your post from Saturday, June 3 at 10:34 am.
First question you asked:  Where is Satan's seat?

It is the world-wide CHURCH of APOSTATE RELIGION. Read Jer. 51:9-We tried to heal Babylon, but she cannot be healed. So leave her alone and each of us will return to his own country. For the judgement against her rises to the skies and reaches even the clouds.                                   His ministers are listed in 2 Corn. 11:13-15 -The fact is that such men are pseudo-emissaries: they tell lies about their work and masquerade as emissaries of the Messiah. There is nothing surprising in that, for the Adversary himself masquerades as an angel of light; so it's no great thing if his workers masquerade as servants of righteousness. They will meet the end their deeds deserve.                                                         Satan is the god of this world: 2 Corn. 4:4-They do not come to trust because the god of this world has blinded their minds, in order to prevent them from seeing the light shining from the Good News about the glory of the Messiah, who is the image of God.

In reference to Luke 10:17-18 -And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through they name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

First, finish reading the thought by finishing verses 10:19 & 20: -"Remember, I have given you authority; so you can trample down snakes and scorpions, indeed, all the Enemy's forces; and you will remain completely unharmed. Nevertheless, don't be glad that the spirits submit to you; be glad that your names have been recorded in heaven."         This helps you to see that Jesus was speaking figuratively, alluding to the future ousting of Satan from heaven spoken of in Rev. 12:9-12.  Re-read especially verses 12:10 & 12 -Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, "Now have come God's victory, power and kingship, and the authority of his Messiah; because the Accuser of our brothers, who accuses them day and night before God, has been thrown out! (12)-"Therefore, rejoice, heaven and you who live there! But woe to you, land and sea, for the Adversary has come down to you and he is very angry, because he knows that his time is short!"

John 12:31 Now is the judgement of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Can you see how this verse (John 12:31) relates to Rev. 10 & 12?

What does Satan dine on? (paraphrasing you)

He dines on the manifestations from the carnal mind which is at eminity with our spiritual body.

Regarding Gen. 3:14, what is your question?

Your next question regarding the star Wormwood-where did it fall from/to?

Looking at other witnesses in the bible we can see that stars can represent rulership:  Num. 24:17-I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not soon-a star will step forth from Jacob, a scepter will arise from Israel, to crush the corners of Mo'av and destroy all descendants of Shet.

In the taunt-song against the king of Babylon we see the king's thoughts of raising himself above the earth making himself like God: Isa. 14:13-16
(13)-You thought to yourself, "I will scale the heavens, I will raise my throne above God's stars. I will sit on the Mount of Assembly far away in the North. (14)-I will rise past the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High! (15)-Instead you are brought down to Sh'ol, to the uttermost depths of the pit. (16)-Those who see you will stare at you, reflecting on what has become of you: "Is this THE MAN who shook the earth, who made kingdoms tremble,"
Even cities are portrayed as stars: Luke 10:15-And you Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Sh'ol!
Both these examples represent Wormwood qualities of ungodliness actions which take carnal self-exaltation to the grave.  

For your questions regarding the "third part" I believe I've responded already.  
As far as what happens to the third part prior to the LAST three sounds of the trumpet in Revelation and their relationship to sealing, these are best to be left to the anticipated papers from Ray, hopefullly soon forthcming.

Meanwhile, regarding Jn. 4:23,25,31 and Rom. 13:11 and 2 Cor. 1:26 and Rev. 12:10, try looking again at them with your spiritual eyes in the context of 'WAS,IS,WILL BE' and see if you can find the witnesses.  You are on to something---Now is profound.
Grace be with you.

:shock:  I'm sorry I didn't realize that I didn't have on my spiritual eyes. No wonder it was so dark in here.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Jennifer, my 'questions' were really meant to be rhetorical.  :oops:  I didn’t mean for you to go through so much trouble to give answers, so I'm sorry if I put you to any trouble.  :oops:

But thank you for adding to the discussion and giving additonal witnesses.   :mrgreen:  =D>    

Blessings,
Chrissie

[jennifer]

Hey Chrissie,
It's no trouble at all sharing God's word.  Keep the questions coming!!! I'm learning more each time I search again for the answers to questions.
There is so much wisdom and understanding to be gleaned, and we can only take in so much food at a time for digestion.

Anyways, this is in answer to your post of today, at 11:36 am.

Are the words in parenthesis yours or are they in the translation that you are using?

They are in the translation.  I am using the Complete Jewish Bible that has the translation of the NT from the ancient Greek originals.  It doesn't use any Christian Old Testament because Christians modify the Masoretic text with information gleaned from the Septuagint and other versions.
My secondary Bible is the KJV from 1891.

To your question as to whether there is a difference between being tried as silver and being tried as gold:

Yes.  Silver has other metals in it and  requires more fire to burn out the dross, gangue and scummy foreign matter which is done in a crucible.    Gold, however, is called a nobel metal as it occurs naturally with no impurities, and therefore is fired in a furnace.

Here's some interesting witnesses: Prov. 17:3-The crucible (tests) silver, and the furnace (tests) gold, but the one who tests hearts is God.
Prov. 27:21-The crucible (tests) silver, and the furnace (tests) gold, but a person (is tested) by (his reaction to) praise.

Contrast this with the wicked judged as dross:

Ezek. 22:18-Human being, the house of Isra'el has become an alloy of base metals for me; they are all copper, tin, iron and lead mixed together in the crucible, the dross left over from the silver.
Ezek. 22:20-Then, just as they collect silver, copper, iron, lead and tin into a crucible and blow fire on it to melt it down; so likewise I will collect you in my anger and fury, throw you in there and melt you down.
Ezek. 22:21-Yes, I will collect you and blow on you with the fire of my rage, and you will be melted down in it.

Here's a couple more:
Ps. 119:119-You discard the wicked of the earth like slag; this is why I love your instruction.
Prov. 25:4,5-Remove the impurities from the silver, and the smith has material to make a vessel.  Remove the wicked from the king's presence, and his throne will rest firmly on righteousness.

Regarding your comment:
WOW!!Maybe being tried WITH silver DOES make sense??

Don't you mean tried AS silver?

Regarding your two scriptures:
Psa 66:10 For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou has tried us, as silver is tried. & Job 23:10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.

It is worded in my CJB thus: Psa. 66:10-For you, God, have tested us, refined us as silver is refined. Job 23:10-Yet he knows the way I take; when he has tested me, I will come out like gold.

Here's one I find inspiring:
2 Sam. 22:31-As for God, his way is perfect, the word of God has been tested by fire; he shields all who take refuge in him.

Grace be with you.

[orion77]

Very good thread, been reading and learning while watching.

I have a question for you Jennifer.  The Complete Jewish Bible, is it available to download online anywhere?  I've never heard of that one.

God bless,

Gary

[chrissiela]

Hey Chrissie,
It's no trouble at all sharing God's word.  Keep the questions coming

I'm learning more each time I search again for the answers to questions.
There is so much wisdom and understanding to be gleaned, and we can only take in so much food at a time for digestion.

Jennifer, thanks again. As I said the questions were rhetorical and I didn't mean for you to go digging for the answers. But I am glad that you getting something out of doing that. That's GREAT!! I am sure others are as well. And the more witnesses the merrier!! So dig away.  :lol:  :lol:  

Anyways, this is in answer to your post of today, at 11:36 am.

Are the words in parenthesis yours or are they in the translation that you are using?

They are in the translation.  I am using the Complete Jewish Bible that has the translation of the NT from the ancient Greek originals.  It doesn't use any Christian Old Testament because Christians modify the Masoretic text with information gleaned from the Septuagint and other versions.
My secondary Bible is the KJV from 1891.

Thank you. I think my mother has that Bible. I have wanted to borrow it, but haven't done so yet. I so love e-sword and studying that way. I'll have to check to see if that is available online.

To your question as to whether there is a difference between being tried as silver and being tried as gold:

Yes.  Silver has other metals in it and  requires more fire to burn out the dross, gangue and scummy foreign matter which is done in a crucible.    Gold, however, is called a nobel metal as it occurs naturally with no impurities, and therefore is fired in a furnace.

Here's some interesting witnesses: Prov. 17:3-The crucible (tests) silver, and the furnace (tests) gold, but the one who tests hearts is God.
Prov. 27:21-The crucible (tests) silver, and the furnace (tests) gold, but a person (is tested) by (his reaction to) praise.

Contrast this with the wicked judged as dross:

Ezek. 22:18-Human being, the house of Isra'el has become an alloy of base metals for me; they are all copper, tin, iron and lead mixed together in the crucible, the dross left over from the silver.
Ezek. 22:20-Then, just as they collect silver, copper, iron, lead and tin into a crucible and blow fire on it to melt it down; so likewise I will collect you in my anger and fury, throw you in there and melt you down.
Ezek. 22:21-Yes, I will collect you and blow on you with the fire of my rage, and you will be melted down in it.

Here's a couple more:
Ps. 119:119-You discard the wicked of the earth like slag; this is why I love your instruction.
Prov. 25:4,5-Remove the impurities from the silver, and the smith has material to make a vessel.  Remove the wicked from the king's presence, and his throne will rest firmly on righteousness.

Thank you.

Regarding your comment:
WOW!!Maybe being tried WITH silver DOES make sense??

Don't you mean tried AS silver?

No, I did mean “withâ€?. As I said, the translation that I was using (KJV) used the word “withâ€? in that verse in Isa, which made no sense to me until I read the other verse about the pure word of the Lord being "as silver". That's why I mused about that making sense then, after all... Being tried WITH silver (the pure word of the Lord)?? Get it??  :lol:   Sorry!  :oops:  :oops:

Regarding your two scriptures:
Psa 66:10 For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou has tried us, as silver is tried. & Job 23:10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.

It is worded in my CJB thus: Psa. 66:10-For you, God, have tested us, refined us as silver is refined. Job 23:10-Yet he knows the way I take; when he has tested me, I will come out like gold.

Here's one I find inspiring:
2 Sam. 22:31-As for God, his way is perfect, the word of God has been tested by fire; he shields all who take refuge in him.

Grace be with you.

Thanks,

Grace be with you, too.

Chrissie

[jennifer]

Hi Orion77,
The CJB is produced by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc.  I only could find it at Barnes & Noble, a bookstore here in Michigan.  You can go on their website and order: www.bn.com.  
Grace be with you.

[chrissiela]

Gary (or anyone else interested):

The CJB is available at: Crosswalk.com

Still looking for a module for download that would work in e-sword.

Is is available for palm or pocket pc Here

Chrissie

[jennifer]

Chrissie,
Thanks for the input.  Let us know if you find the module.  
Grace be with you.

[chrissiela]

Chrissie,
Thanks for the input.  Let us know if you find the module.  
Grace be with you.

Hi Jennifer,

From what I can gather so far, it used to be available at The Chan website. Since it is not there anymore (for download) I'm thinking that they ran into copyright problems or did/do not have permission to distribute it that way. Also heard mention of it being at e-sword, so maybe they had to remove it as well??

I'll keep checking around, but having it over the internet may be the best we can do for now, unless we run out and buy the book. (Or borrow it from mom  :wink: which is what I may do, to at least get a feel for it first before I decide.)

Chrissie