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What should I say/have said?
smeacham:
It all began innocently. Now, it's not that I'm theologically cornered, or anything. It's just that I am not trusting my own discernment right now in how/if I should respond. Here's the conversation, in email, that took place today.
FIRST, a friend and coworker saw my computer wallpaper of a beautiful Bismuth crystal. I explained all about it (I know a bit about metallurgy and may have been showing off a bit). I later emailed her a link to a website that sold them, and has lots of pictures: http://www.bismuthcrystal.com/.
SECOND, she wrote back and said:
--- Quote ---Thanks, Steve, for enlightening me about bismuth. Very beautiful aspect of God's creative works! Amazing!!
There might be need for caution because of what other people associate it with. If anyone thinks the crystals have mystical power beyond its dimagnetic influence, that power could be demon-given. Like those who might buy from the following site that sells bismuth for spiritual reasons. http://crystalden.com.au
"The mystical properties of Bismuth are supposed to be twofold...1) to ease the ache of loneliness and isolation 2) to help in the transition between planes (physical to spiritual or astral) Bismuth is also mentioned in the ancient Qabalah, although credit for discovery of this element is given to an unknown 15th century alchemist. People that seek this stone out for mystic reasons are focusing on the astral travel aspect. It's supposed to be like a tiny mystical booster rocket to another plane."
--- End quote ---
Now THAT was unexpected. I had not been talking about so-called spiritual applications of crystals at all.
THIRD, I wrote to her:
--- Quote ---God made humans spiritually weak. We'll seek out all manner of things to worship until God drags us to Himself. Christians and new-agers alike claim that their bondage to physical things are really spiritual:
...
A list of some idols of the heart - religious practices, the trinity, politics, church affiliation, pet doctrines, etc.
...
In that context, a crystal believed to be a "tiny mystical booster rocket to another plane" seems a minor thing, doesn't it?
--- End quote ---
I realize, I may be too cavalier in my last statement about it being a "minor thing." I said it without any forethought, that's for sure.
FOURTH, she responded (in an email titled "It is written":
--- Quote ---"God made humans spiritually weak."
Genesis 1:27 and 31
"In that context, a crystal believed to be a 'tiny mystical booster rocket to another plane' seems a minor thing, doesn't it?"
Luke 16:10, Psalm 111:10, Proverbs 8:13
--- End quote ---
Guys, I promise that I never intended this to happen. There may, indeed, be an issue I need to look at myself on her second concern. But, we're all familiar with her first one - that Adam and Eve were created perfect, and were not created spiritually weak.
FIFTH, I responded (some of it cut-and-pasted from Ray's writings - he has such a way with words):
--- Quote ---I give greetings and pleasantries...
...
I know the scriptures I'm about to show are not understood the same way by you. So, you can take this simply as insight into why I said what I said about spiritual weakness, or perhaps you may see more here, due to the foolishness of preaching.
God made humans spiritually weak
Jeremiah 17:9: The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceeding weak - who can know it.
Romans 8:20: For the creation was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who has subjected the same in hope.
Romans 8:7: The carnal (natural/fleshy) mind is enmity against God; it is not subject to the laws of God, neither is it able.
Adam and Eve were "perfect" in the same way that Satan (a liar and a murderer from the very beginning) was perfect - perfect for the purpose for which God created them. They already had lust and disobedience in their hearts before the serpent approached them. Eve lusted before she ever actually ate of the fruit.
...
I make some statements about physical vs. spiritual, Jesus in our hearts, minds, and spirits vs stone tablets, etc.
--- End quote ---
FINALLY, she's responded:
--- Quote ---The scriptures in Jeremiah and Romans describe our sinful state caused by inherited imperfection. It affects our mind and natural-born tendencies because it is in our genes. At the time of that original sinful disobedient act against Jehovah, human bodies have been corrupted and in a state of sin.
It was not our loving Father's purpose for humans to disobey. Obedience and respect for his property is what he expected. Genesis 3:11-13
It is our loving Father's purpose to change all that during Christ's millenial reign. Romans 8:21
All praise to our Creator for providing the ransom, paying for human sin, and opening up an opportunity to live in that time and forever. Romans 8:37
P.S. My work time was over at 4:00, but wanted to respond in defense of my perfect God who would not create something for an unrighteous purpose. You are absolutely right in knowing that I will not swerve from believing the logical truth in God's Word.
--- End quote ---
Free will, free will, free will. AND - an accusation against my God, implying that He is unrighteous in what He has done.
She is a friend at work, and she is one of the most gentle, soft-spoken, and kind people you may ever meet. She's also about 15 years my senior. I'm wringing my hands and pulling my hair, here. Should I respond? How? With what motives? What is God's will in this situation? Or, not to be trite, WWJD?
Thanks, guys. It always seems I'm crying out for help here. I appreciate your support and advice very much.
Steve
EKnight:
I'm thinking maybe you should agree to disagree for the time being. Just judging from the back and forth emails already, it appears it could be a war of words or better said, battle of the scriptures.
Just my opinion.
Eileen
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: EKnight on March 06, 2009, 06:51:14 PM ---I'm thinking maybe you should agree to disagree for the time being. Just judging from the back and forth emails already, it appears it could be a war of words or better said, battle of the scriptures.
Just my opinion.
Eileen
--- End quote ---
I would agree with Eileen as well...no need to throw fuel to the flame.
I like this from one of Ray's paper (http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm):
You will never argue anyone into accepting the truths of God’s Word. As salesmen are often taught: "You might win the argument, but loose the sale," so don’t argue. And this: "He who is persuaded against his will; is of the same opinion still."
Marques
Akira329:
--- Quote from: EKnight on March 06, 2009, 06:51:14 PM ---I'm thinking maybe you should agree to disagree for the time being. Just judging from the back and forth emails already, it appears it could be a war of words or better said, battle of the scriptures.
Just my opinion.
Eileen
--- End quote ---
Hey Steve,
I would have to agree with Eileen
Your co-worker is using scripture to prove her false beliefs its probably best to back off.
Even if you show her some more scriptures that would force her to respond without lying, she will weasel out of those.
My advice, if she comes to you and wants to continue in discussing, be patient with her.
She seems to have a strong opinion on the subject.
Hey! I agree with Marques post too!
Antaiwan
aqrinc:
Hi Steve,
I had a similar situation about 2 months ago. While browsing in a bookstore, i met someone who struck up a conversation with me. Somehow the conversation came around to Scripture and Christianity. The short version is; we talked about free will, burning in hell and his faith, then decided to stay on the subjects by email and further contact. Well after several email exchanges over about 2 weeks, he stopped answering because i would not agree that most of the world was going to burn in hell.
I always provided many Scriptures to support my points and asked that he supply any contradicting Scripture he could produce from The Bible. Then i emailed him a complete study on Aion and Aionos (from yahoo search). Still waiting for contact from him again (call me boy blue).
george. ???
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