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[buckhunter]

Just curious-will we who are in the first resurection be able to resurrect our pets? My wife and I have a couple of dogs that we love and I was wondering if there will be "spiritual" pets in God's kingdom. I know Ray is partial to cats but has never mentioned anything about them. I haven't posted in a while but am still here. I also received an e-mail from Ray after Dennis told how sick he was.

                                                Jim C.

[Marky Mark]

Jim C,

  Hello, here is an email to Ray on said question.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3933.0.html

 Hi Mr. Smith:  I've lost my two precious Boston Terriers within the past 3 years and I miss them so much.  Do our pets go to heaven?  Do they go anywhere?
        
        Thank you,
        
        Cyndy Black
        

        Dear Cyndy:
        No, pets do not go to heaven, when they die and neither do we. The dead don't go anywhere. This is just another pagan doctrine of the Church. All consciousness ends at death. However, no one knows that they are dead. We all will, to some degree, go through or experience dying, by no one will ever experience death itself, as we have this Scriptural assurance:  "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not ANYTHING." (Ecc. 9:5). The ONLY hope of the dead is the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. This has been in our Bibles for many centuries, but the Church denies it, hence it is not taught as an important doctrine.
        
        At death, our spirit returns to God, but the spirit has not consciousness. The consciousness is called "soul," but the soul dies at death, and the body returns to the dust. In resurrection God puts our spirit back into a NEW body and we once again experience soul--life and animation.
        
        We are told nothing regarding our pets except this;  " For that which befalls the sons of men befalls beasts; even one thing befalls them:  as the one dies, so dies the other;yes, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast for all is vanity.  All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.  Who knows [whether] the spirit of man [men] goes upward, and [whether] the spirit of the beast goes downward to the earth?" (Ecc. 3:19-21).
        
        Now you know as much as I do.  I too lost my favorite cat a year ago.
        God be with you,
        Ray






Peace...Mark
        

[aqrinc]

Just curious-will we who are in the first Resurrection be able to resurrect our pets? My wife and I have a couple of dogs that we love and I was wondering if there will be "spiritual" pets in God's kingdom. I know Ray is partial to cats but has never mentioned anything about them. I haven't posted in a while but am still here. I also received an e-mail from Ray after Dennis told how sick he was.

                                                Jim C.

Hi Jim C,

Just a point on the highlighted part of your question. We (none of us know) that we will, or will not be in the First Resurrection.

Scripture says:

Mat 10:22 (KJV)
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

2Co 1:13  (KJV)
For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end;

1Pe 1:13  (KJV)
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Here is a paper below from Ray that should be read:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.0.html

Excerpt from: CAN WE LOSE GOD’S SPIRIT AND EONIAN LIFE? . . . . Biblestudy March 2008

Reader:  ‘This verse in John 3:36 tells me that who believes in Jesus has eternal life.  Again there is no doubt to when or if but clearly states “has eternal life” i.e. now and again in:’

1John 5:11  And the testimony is this, that God has given [Greek aorist, ’gives’] us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

Rom 8:14-17  14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.  15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"  16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, IF indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Reader: ‘These verses in Romans explain it very clearly, they tell us:
a)  If we are led by the Holy Spirit we are apart of Gods family.
b)  We have been adopted into Gods family.
c)  The Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are in fact belong to God (now) and not in the future.
In 2 Cor. 1:21-22 it tells us that those that believe have been sealed as a pledge to us in that we have received salvation.’

21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, 22 who also sealed [sealed - pass tense] us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Reader:  ‘In Eph. 1:13-14 we are told that we again are sealed with the Holy Spirit and has given us a pledge of our inheritance now - that is again our assurance that we have salvation now.’

13  In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed [pass tense] in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14  who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ray's comment: No, we do not have salvation now, what we have now is a “pledge” “with a view TO the redemption…” A “pledge and a view” are NOT possession.  Did the Patriarchs “possess” their inheritance?


george .

 

[hillsbororiver]

Pro 12:10  A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.

Job 4:17  Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

Does God "regardeth" the lives of animals less than we should?

Gen 1:24  And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

He spoke it.

Isa 55:11  So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but  it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Not a wasted Word was spoken in creation.

Isa 9:7  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Luk 20:38  For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Peace,

Joe

[arion]

Just a thought for consideration.  Many of the things that are important to us now will they still be important once we (if we are in the first resurrection) are resurrected with a spiritual body and all the vestages of sin and corruption are removed?  It is written that eye has not seen nor ear heard what God has prepared for those who love him.  I love my german shepherd but somehow I don't think that much of what matters to me now will matter to me then.

[indianabob]

Friend Jim (buckhunter)

No I don't believe that we will see our old pets in the kingdom.

Resurrection is for God's children, being made in His image and conformed to His character, it is special.
With that in mind, your character and understanding and strength of purpose when resurrected in the Kingdom will be such that you will be able to LOVE in a perfect way.  If there are pets for the elect of God we will be able to direct our love toward new pets in a much greater way than in our present human capacity.  The old memories we once cherished will be replaced by new day to day experiences of one who will never again die.  What God has reserved for us is so much greater than the memories of old as to be incomparable.

Indiana Bob

Just curious-will we who are in the first resurection be able to resurrect our pets? My wife and I have a couple of dogs that we love and I was wondering if there will be "spiritual" pets in God's kingdom. I know Ray is partial to cats but has never mentioned anything about them. I haven't posted in a while but am still here. I also received an e-mail from Ray after Dennis told how sick he was.

                                                Jim C.

[hillsbororiver]

Jim C,

  Hello, here is an email to Ray on said question.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3933.0.html

 Hi Mr. Smith:  I've lost my two precious Boston Terriers within the past 3 years and I miss them so much.  Do our pets go to heaven?  Do they go anywhere?
        
        Thank you,
        
        Cyndy Black
        

        Dear Cyndy:
        No, pets do not go to heaven, when they die and neither do we. The dead don't go anywhere. This is just another pagan doctrine of the Church. All consciousness ends at death. However, no one knows that they are dead. We all will, to some degree, go through or experience dying, by no one will ever experience death itself, as we have this Scriptural assurance:  "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not ANYTHING." (Ecc. 9:5). The ONLY hope of the dead is the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. This has been in our Bibles for many centuries, but the Church denies it, hence it is not taught as an important doctrine.
        
        At death, our spirit returns to God, but the spirit has not consciousness. The consciousness is called "soul," but the soul dies at death, and the body returns to the dust. In resurrection God puts our spirit back into a NEW body and we once again experience soul--life and animation.
        
        We are told nothing regarding our pets except this;  " For that which befalls the sons of men befalls beasts; even one thing befalls them:  as the one dies, so dies the other;yes, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast for all is vanity.  All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.  Who knows [whether] the spirit of man [men] goes upward, and [whether] the spirit of the beast goes downward to the earth?" (Ecc. 3:19-21).
        
        Now you know as much as I do.  I too lost my favorite cat a year ago.
        God be with you,
        Ray


Peace...Mark
 

Hello Brothers & Sisters,

This topic has been rolling around in my mind the past few days and it actually came up in phone conversations I have had with a couple other members recently.

Alluding to "eye hath not seen...." (Isa 64:4, 1Cor 2:9) what scriptures prohibit the idea that the good things God has provided for us on our journey in this flesh will not also enhance our peace, pleasure and satisfaction in the spiritual life which awaits us albeit on a spiritual level/fulfilment rather than a temporary (physical/natural) shadow of what is to come?  Will there be no music, no flowers, no fruit bearing trees, no majestic landscapes, no pleasant aromas, sights, tastes, etc.

To me what is written in scripture does not exclude anything we might hope for it only says we cannot imagine how wonderful His plan and purpose is for us. Doesn't He promise to wipe away ALL TEARS?

Rev 21:4  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes (ever shed tears for an animal?); and there shall be no more death (are only animals still dead?), neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain (I still have sorrow for all the cats, dogs, etc. that I loved and eventually died): for the former things are passed away (no more death, period).

As a child I vividly remember wondering about how even ants knew what they were doing, why do they walk in a single file line never seeming to deviate from what their goal or mission is, how do they communicate, how do they even know what they are supposed to be doing, I actually used to wish I could be one of them for a time to understand this incredible military type of purpose they display. I would look at the neighbor's and my parents gardens, both the flowers and vegetables and be fascinated how a seed buried in the spring could produce a plant and ultimately a flower or food in the summer or fall, I would look at our kitten or puppy and fervently desire to know how they saw me, what they thought and how they viewed their surroundings......

Will God some day grant my quest or desire for this knowledge?   
 
I am not saying or even speculating that these will be physical, earthly types of experiences, what I have been presently wondering about is will these gifts that make life more interesting and give us relief from our day to day trials and tribulations be totally done away with? Are these pleasant works from Him only a diversion and not a shadow of good and better things to come?

Just imagine at some point in the next age (or beyond) if you could speak into existence a pet from your former life to bring back as an immortal spiritual creature who both remembers you and is still totally content to just be in your presence, if we can imagine it then it is certainly not beyond His power to fulfil it.

Remember this is in "Off Topics" so please take it as it is intended, not a teaching just the ramblings of of a middle aged man who still feels like a child in many regards.... having WAY more questions than answers. 

Peace,

Joe

 

[SandyFla]

I believe my cats will be resurrected. There are verses that say the lion shall lie down with the lamb, also mentioning other creatures, so I take that to mean my "girls" will be welcome into God's kingdom.

I lost Bethany last April and Twinkles on February 24. Never seeing them again is not an option to me.

BTW, the pretty little girl in my profile is Gracie, my newest kitty. Isn't she beautiful? Or maybe I'm just partial.

Sandy

[Marky Mark]

I believe my cats will be resurrected. There are verses that say the lion shall lie down with the lamb, also mentioning other creatures, so I take that to mean my "girls" will be welcome into God's kingdom.

I lost Bethany last April and Twinkles on February 24. Never seeing them again is not an option to me.

BTW, the pretty little girl in my profile is Gracie, my newest kitty. Isn't she beautiful? Or maybe I'm just partial.

Sandy

There are verses that say the lion shall lie down with the lamb, also mentioning other creatures,

Sandy,here are verses of which you speak of.Profoundly Spiritual in nature.

1Samuel 17:34 And David said unto Saul, Thy servant kept his father's sheep, and there came a lion, and a bear, and took a lamb out of the flock:

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith Jehovah.



Peace...Mark

[buckhunter]

Thanks Joe-this is a reply I was hoping to hear. And thanks to all the others who took the time to reply.

                           Jim

[Triton]

Joe,

Your posts on this thread speaks to my heart and I have been thinking along the same lines.

When He says that ALL will be saved, we know that He means ALL. I have come to see the truth of this.

Acts 3:21 mentions the RESTITUTION of ALL THINGS. I put my hope in this scripture
along with the thoughts and scripture that Joe has mentioned.

I have an extreme affinity towards animals. It's something which started growing along the same time
as when I started seeing what His Word was really saying to us.



Paul

[hillsbororiver]

You are very welcome Jim.

Thank you Paul, excellent addition by the way (Acts 3:21)!

Here are a few more verses that have led me to strongly consider this wonderful *possibilty.

*Mat 19:26  But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Neh 9:6  Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest (H2421) them all; and the host of heaven worshipeth thee.

H2421
חיה
châyâh
khaw-yaw'
A prim root (compare H2331, H2424); to live, whether literally or figuratively; causatively to revive: - keep (leave, make) alive, X certainly, give (promise) life, (let, suffer to) live, nourish up, preserve (alive), quicken, recover, repair, restore (to life), revive, (X God) save (alive, life, lives), X surely, be whole.

Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Jam 1:18  Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures(G2938).
 
G2938
κτίσμα
ktisma
ktis'-mah
From G2936; an original formation (concretely), that is, product (created thing): - creature.

Peace,

Joe

[fox]

Hi All,

The following verse that Joe brought up is the one of many mentioned that I finally always land on when researching this area.

"Rev 21:4  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes (ever shed tears for an animal?); and there shall be no more death (are only animals still dead?), neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain (I still have sorrow for all the cats, dogs, etc. that I loved and eventually died): for the former things are passed away (no more death, period)."

I have thought about this topic a great deal. Some of the best companions that I have ever had were dogs/cats. The
only way that I can see that I would not still miss and grieve for them in the future is if (1) my memories of them
were erased or (2) I was given a lobotomy so that I just did not care any more. I hate to think that either would
happen since I would no longer be "me" in either circumstance.

Regards,
fox

[Deborah-Leigh]

God is a God of Mercy and Love.  Surely Heaven can not be a realm where our pets have been annihilated?

Our precious animals have their own innocence and personalities that I believe shall be restored to us in other forms of Spirit and not excluded or eliminated. The possibilities are endless.

1 Cor 15 :19 If we who are abiding in Christ have hope only in this life and that is all, then we are of all people most miserable and to be pitied.

Arc

[hillsbororiver]

 There are verses that say the lion shall lie down with the lamb, also mentioning other creatures, so I take that to mean my "girls" will be welcome into God's kingdom.

Sandy,here are verses of which you speak of.Profoundly Spiritual in nature.

1Samuel 17:34 And David said unto Saul, Thy servant kept his father's sheep, and there came a lion, and a bear, and took a lamb out of the flock:

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith Jehovah.

Hi Mark,

Not seeking any confrontation or debate but are there any scriptural witnesses saying that this cannot be a twofold (multi layered) prophecy? My point is that we all know the difference between spiritual Israel (elect) and physical Israel, but is it not true that both will ultimately be in His Kingdom?

Won't all those who ever lived in physical, earthly Jerusalem also at some point be in the spiritual New Jerusalem?

Yes we have it written that first the natural then the spiritual but does that really mean the types and shadows of our physical experience are going to be totally erased? My question would be "so what is/was the purpose of the natural types and shadows if they are not to be fulfilled in an unimaginably better way in His Kingdom?"

This topic may be a source of amusement or derision for some of us but for others it is a real concern as our life experiences have been enhanced and perhaps even been prolonged by the direct result of the companionship God has provided through our pets and even wildlife.

The following Words are not mine, but our Lord's;

Mat 10:29  Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

Luk 12:6  Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?

Please bear with me if I have made too much of an issue about this topic but I must admit that I have a very strong bond with the animals God has generously put in my journey and I cannot imagine He would have created such wonderful companions only to dispose of them like used Kleenex.

Thank you for your consideration.

Peace,

Joe
 

[mharrell08]

I like Chris R's response to this very same subject (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4801.msg37042.html#msg37042):

Hi folks,

I'm going to say a few words, then allow a few responces and then, lets move on.

The topic is reasonable enough, but is hypothetical at best. We endear ourselves to animals like pets, because in some ways they take on human traits, they remind us of ourselves, but what are they thinking?..I haven't a clue. "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds."[1Cor 15:39]

But this subject can also turn into a debate, but to what end? All we will have a the end of this thread, is the same questions that we had at the beginning of the thread.

Peace

Chris R

And like Ray says, the scriptures don't really say too much.

I don't have a preference either way as I never had a pet and pets of others have never bothered me; but we still should not let this turn into an idol of the heart or a basis for unscriptural assumptions; for either side of the discussion.

One cannot press upon another to say pets will not be in the Kingdom for the very reason that one cannot press upon another that pet will be: the scriptures do not state, defiantly, for either cause.

But I will say this: Would one feel complete in the glory of the Kingdom of God without their pet or would one need their pet to feel complete in the glory of the Kingdom of God? One might want to spend time meditating on that before answering too quickly.

Like I've said, I've never had a pet but for those with one, just something to think about...


Marques

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Marquis,

You and Chris can have the last word on this as I will bow out, I attempted to provide some scripture as well as the patterns described throughout the bible.

This subject was brought up in "Off Topics" so as has been the tradition here in my past experience more lattitude has been provided for thoughts and speculation, as I do not want to be a stumbling block providing and prostrating myself before "idols of the heart" this will be my last post.

Peace,

Joe 

[Samson]

I like Chris R's response to this very same subject (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4801.msg37042.html#msg37042):

Hi folks,

I'm going to say a few words, then allow a few responces and then, lets move on.

The topic is reasonable enough, but is hypothetical at best. We endear ourselves to animals like pets, because in some ways they take on human traits, they remind us of ourselves, but what are they thinking?..I haven't a clue. "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds."[1Cor 15:39]

But this subject can also turn into a debate, but to what end? All we will have a the end of this thread, is the same questions that we had at the beginning of the thread.

Peace

Chris R

And like Ray says, the scriptures don't really say too much.

I don't have a preference either way as I never had a pet and pets of others have never bothered me; but we still should not let this turn into an idol of the heart or a basis for unscriptural assumptions; for either side of the discussion.

One cannot press upon another to say pets will not be in the Kingdom for the very reason that one cannot press upon another that pet will be: the scriptures do not state, defiantly, for either cause.

But I will say this: Would one feel complete in the glory of the Kingdom of God without their pet or would one need their pet to feel complete in the glory of the Kingdom of God? One might want to spend time meditating on that before answering too quickly.

Like I've said, I've never had a pet but for those with one, just something to think about...


Marques

Thanks Marques,

                       A balanced answer indeed, the Scriptures are essentially silent on the matter. Also, I have and have
had Pets in the past. I can recall two Cats from many years ago and feel no sorrow or emotional attachment to them.
The current Cats in my possession are loved, but I'm closer to one of them. I don't know exactly where the Scripture
that I'm about to make mention of is located, but it essentially says that God is going to satisfy the desire of every living thing. God is going to wipe out our tears and sorrow, so whatever he has in store for us specifically, we will be
totally happy, whether we have Pets from the past or not. Just my thoughts. Your(Marques) response is basically
where my mindset lies and I like some animals.

                                        Kind Regards, Samson.

[SandyFla]

Please bear with me if I have made too much of an issue about this topic but I must admit that I have a very strong bond with the animals God has generously put in my journey and I cannot imagine He would have created such wonderful companions only to dispose of them like used Kleenex.

Amen, Joe! Our beloved pets -- and all wildlife, for that matter -- are too beautiful to be annihilated, IMHO.

Sandy

[Patrick]

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:sbrwrjiTM4kJ:bible-truths.com/email18.htm+%22hypothetical%22+site:bible-truths.com&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

I really hate answering hypothetical questions. Five minutes ago while having my coffee and watching the morning news, Chris Wallace asked Jim Baker, "IF the President were to put YOU in charge of negotiations between the US and Iran, how would you go about it?"  Mr. Baker said: "The President won't put me in charge, so I won't be doing any negotiations." When asked a second time, he replied, "I don't answer hypothetical questions.."

I have seen people backed into corners over hypothetical questions. Not that you are doing that, but if I were to put some "limitation" on the amount of force to be used in this hypothetical family attack, let's say "hypothetically 5 pounds" of force, then the question would be, "But what if the situation required 5 pounds and 1 ounce to be administered?"  What about 5 pounds and 2 ounces? 3 ounces?   What if it were a situation in which one had to shoot a person in the head with a 57 Magnum or your whole family would die? Would you shoot him? What if your family would die and the whole city with them, unless you personally would SHOOT this person?   "What if one shot in the head would SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD, would you do it, Ray?"

You know what? I don't think I want to answer hypothetical questions either. God said that we should not try to rehearse in our minds just what we would say if brought before a board of persecutors, neither do I think we need to try and rehearse what we would do if someone broke into our home. You don't know what you would do, number one, and most would not follow my advice anyway, number two. Jesus didn't say: "If a bully strikes your little girl on her right check, turn to him the left cheek of your daughter also," now did He? Although, someone will now probably ask, "But what would you do, Ray, if that happened?" You know it is possible to physically defend oneself and one's family without "hating" the offender.

Trust me when I say that if it has not yet happened, it will, when your faith with be tried in a way that is just between you and your God, and there won't even be time to send me an email.  Bottom line: Don't try to come up with 'hypothetical' situations in which you think that the laws of God and the ways of God would not be fair, or practical, or logical, and therefore would have to be changed, altered, or just totally thrown away as useless in practical, real life situations.

The shame is that many people who have used alternative measures to God's ways, and have failed in so doing, will never know how things would have been different had they just trusted God in the first place.  It is oh so true, that "we learn obedience by the things WE SUFFER."

God be with you,

Ray

This email is not directly related, nevertheless, I think it fits in here.
Just trust in God!