> General Discussions
as many as thou hast given me
EKnight:
George,
So that would be everyone, right?
I am confused as to what Kevin is or isn't trying to say.
--- Quote ---It was more of a "curiosity question" as I've seen a few UR believers suggest that all people will get eternal/aionios life because of that verse John 17:2.
--- End quote ---
Eileen
aqrinc:
Hi Eileen,
If i understand his question, Kevin is asking 2 questions.
1: eonian Life for Believers.
2: All being saved and given Immortality.
This Scripture addresses All, at least that is how i read it. If it addresses all it does not exclude either.
Anyone with better understanding please jump in.
george. ???
Ps. Eonian life for the Elect and immortality for All.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: aqr on March 09, 2009, 10:05:16 PM ---Hi Eileen,
If i understand his question, Kevin is asking 2 questions.
1: eonian Life for Believers.
2: All being saved and given Immortality.
This Scripture addresses All, at least that is how i read it. If it addresses all it does not exclude either.
Anyone with better understanding please jump in.
george. ???
Ps. Eonian life for the Elect and immortality for All.
--- End quote ---
John 17:1-2 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Mark 4:10 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Matt 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Luke 9:23-24 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
John 3:14-15 ...the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Kevin is correct in what he is stating (not asking) regarding John 17:2...eonian (everlasting, eternal) life is NOT promised to unbelievers & many called. Eonian life is NOT the same as being saved.
Eonian life pertains to life, spiritual life with spiritual bodies [1 Cor 15], in the next age/eon...not just a living, breathing body in the next age/eon. Eonian life pertains to the Elect ruling and reigning with Christ as a royal priesthood, holy nation that is to bless all the nations [Gal 3:8, Gen 22:18, Deut 14:2].
For those who will not have eonian life, they will be resurrected unto Judgment. They will 'live' in the next age/eon but they will not be 'vivified' [quickened; spiritual bodies] but be in the same corruption [fleshly, carnality] that they perished in. Once they are blessed & healed (judged in LOF), then they will be 'comformed into His image' but this happens at the END of that age/eon. That is why they do not have 'eonian life' as they are not 'vivified' like Christ at His coming unlike the saints (elect) who will be changed at His coming [1 Cor 15:51, 1 John 3:2]. Their change happens last, at the end of the eon though they are being judged throughout the eon.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---Kevin is correct in what he is stating (not asking) regarding John 17:2...eonian (everlasting, eternal) life is NOT promised to unbelievers & many called. Eonian life is NOT the same as being saved.
Eonian life pertains to life, spiritual life with spiritual bodies [1 Cor 15], in the next age/eon...not just a living, breathing body in the next age/eon. Eonian life pertains to the Elect ruling and reigning with Christ as a royal priesthood, holy nation that is to bless all the nations [Gal 3:8, Gen 22:18, Deut 14:2].
For those who will not have eonian life, they will be resurrected unto Judgment. They will 'live' in the next age/eon but they will not be 'vivified' [quickened; spiritual bodies] but be in the same corruption [fleshly, carnality] that they perished in. Once they are blessed & healed (judged in LOF), then they will be 'comformed into His image' but this happens at the END of that age/eon. That is why they do not have 'eonian life' as they are not 'vivified' like Christ at His coming unlike the saints (elect) who will be changed at His coming [1 Cor 15:51, 1 John 3:2]. Their change happens last, at the end of the eon though they are being judged throughout the eon.
Hope this helps,
Marques
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---For those who will not have eonian life, they will be resurrected unto Judgment. They will 'live' in the next age/eon but they will not be 'vivified' [quickened; spiritual bodies] but be in the same corruption [fleshly, carnality] that they perished in.
--- End quote ---
Agreed +1
I think some of the confusion that people have a hard time differentiating between is the word eonian life with age/eon.Our Fathers master plan consists of ages and not just an age.
Peace...Mark
Kat:
Hi Kevin,
--- Quote ---Here is the confusing part for me:
All things have been given to Christ (John 3:35, John 13:3). But only "as many as thou hast given" shall receive aionios life (John 17:2).
So even though all things have been given to Christ, only those given specifically for aionios life receive aionios life (ie. the elect).
--- End quote ---
It is true that "All things have been given to Christ" and it is also true that only "as many as Thou hast given." These are both true because Christ always did whatever the Father's will was. He did not receive "all things" yet, as in all people saved in this age, because it is not the Father's will yet. But Christ does have all authority.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
But all that Christ has and does always lines up exactly with the Father's will.
John 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.
John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
Joh 10:30 I and My Father are one."
Hope hope this is what you were asking about, if not it is still good to read these things.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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