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kenny:
Php 4:19  But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

does ray have any thing on this scripture i have not found any thing yet,
scripture says that he is the

rev. v 21:6  And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 22:13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
since i have been on the BT every word looks differant.
is GOD in CONTROL, has GOD already CONTROLED the beginning and the end including all that is in between

Kat:

Hi Kenny,


--- Quote ---is GOD in CONTROL, has GOD already CONTROLED the beginning and the end including all that is in between
--- End quote ---

Isa 46:10  declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'

God has a plan and a purpose that He's worked out before He even created this universe.  God being Sovereign He is in control of everything that there is, indeed it is only by Him that anything exist.

1Co 8:6  yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

God is truly everything whether we recognize it or not.  For a few He is opening their eyes to this truth now, but most will learn who God is in the next age.

Act 17:26  And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
v. 27  so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
v. 28  for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, "For we are also His offspring.'

mercy, peace and love
Kat

aqrinc:

Hi Kenny,

This is a long read, all the q & a in this will answer many of your questions on what Ray writes
concerning GOD Being In Control. I am late to the party but take a read of this Ray Answers:

http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#sovern

Excerpt from: Is God really sovereign?


Do you consider Job just a parable too?  Satan wagered that Job would choose one way, and God wagered Job would choose to continue in righteousness.  How POINTLESS would this be if Job had no choice in the matter in the FIRST PLACE.  Demons fall to their knees at the sight of Jesus.  Satan throws himself down in the face of God's power.   I'd say they knew AND know their maker better than we do.

Either Satan was forced by God to make such a lame wager, and God proved to HIMSELF he could torture a man, and then make that man still be righteous, or Satan KNEW Job had choice, attempted to make him choose evil, and God showed us a reason to continue through trials and NOT curse God.

May God's love guide us,
-M

p.s. I hope you do not weary of our discussions!

[Ray Replies]

Dear Matthew:

Heck no I don't get weary of your questions. They are a lot more thoughtful and stimulating that most I receive.

I think I detect God turning on a few light bulbs in you mind. Let me try and answer all the propositions you presented.

First I need to clarify our use of words again. The word "free" as it is used in "free will" can ONLY mean that a person can think thoughts, make choices, and perform activities completely on his own with nothing CAUSING him to think, choose, or perform.  That's as clear as I can state it. If something, ANYTHING, causes (or let's get stronger--MAKES) a person think a thought or make a choice or perform an action, then he did not do it FREELY. Don't get me wrong; he may have done it voluntarily, but not FREELY.

Our minds have the power and capability to "choose". A choice is merely "what we prefer." Our brains CAN analyze data, weight pros and cons, and MAKE choices. He can, however, do NONE OF THESE FREELY--that is "without a CAUSE." Let me use a softer expression and maybe it will become clearer.  Do you now agree that we are "influenced" to think things, say things, and do things?  OF COURSE WE ARE! Now then, if something influences you to actually DO something, then that influence WAS THE CAUSE. And whatever caused you to do something MADE you do it. And once something is MADE to do something, it is impossible to ever have been avoided!

I realize that this goes a little beyond psychology and theology 101, but it is not impossible to apprehend. It does take consider time meditating on these things before one becomes COMPLETELY convinced in his own heart and mind that the statements that "ALL is of God" and "God Who operates ALL according to the counsel of own will", are always true under all and every circumstance. Now to your comments:

You suggest that surely God gives us SOME will and SOME choices. Matthew, He gives us THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of choices according to our own wills. It's just that NONE of them are exercised WITHOUT INFLUENCE (or a cause that makes us do as we do). Try some experimenting if you will. Sit still and try to come up with a thought, choice or action that has zero influence.You might think that something even just "pooped into your mind" and that NOTHING caused it. Sure it did. Something did. There are no effects in the physical or mental universe that have no causes.

You use the word "forcing" our foot steps. God never uses that word. But He does use words such as "directs" or "guides". It doesn't take a great deal of energy for God to make people follow the footsteps that He has established for us. The SLIGHTEST motivations in our finances, stomach, social life, egos, etc., will easily cause us to go either this way or that way.

Of course none of this is of any value unless we can establish it in God's Word. Notice what God says regarding our "steps":

"...It is NOT IN MAN...to direct his steps..." (Jer. 10:23).

"A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord DIRECTS HIS STEPS" (Prov. 16:9).

God could have just as easily said: "...the Lord directs HIS WAY" It's all the same to God.

"Man's goings [Heb: steps] ARE OF THE LORD: how can a man then understand HIS OWN WAY? [it matters not if our steps are good or sinful]" (Prov. 20:24).

"For now thou NUMBEREST my steps [THAT'S pretty specific, Matthew]: dost thou NOT watch over my SIN?" (Job 14:16).

"The steps ['steps' is used to symbolize ALL OF MANS DOINGS] OF A MAN ARE ordered [Heb: established] by the Lord" (Psa. 37:23). If ALL man's steps are "established", then of necessity they are ordered by God IN ADVANCE of him taking those ordered steps!

george. ;D

mhykx:
Thank you for starting this thread.

I'm currently reading and re-reading articles / answers on this.

I hope to hear more from others as well.

God bless everyone!
Mike

kenny:
Pro 2:20 Follow the steps of good men instead, and stay on the paths of the righteous. 

the FEW

Pro 3:6 Seek his will in all you do, and he will direct your paths.(NLT)

to KNOW

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created [fn] the heavens and the earth.(NLT)

every thing else is ORDAINED

every morning i get up, i thank GOD, every morning i ask him is he is ready to RUMBLE, his answer is

Psa 73:25 Whom have I in heaven but you? I desire you more than anything on earth

all day at work i meditate on Gods WORD and then i stay up all hours studing the word i meditated on and for years i could find no one that did that certainly no pastor, preacher, minister, or christain. Till i came to BT, now i SAY are YOU ready  to RUMBLE and i get to really RUMBLE, with like MINDED people.

 

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