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[daywalker]

Proverbs 25:2:
The glory of God, is to conceal a thing, but, the glory of kings, is to search out a thing.

I was just thinking to myself, how ironic it is, that the Enghlish word "hell" used to mean to cover up or to conceal. Has He not used the new modern meaning of this same word, to conceal His Truths about the Reconciliation of all?

I often wonder why God would use such a "damnable heresy", knowing that it would cause many people to curse His Name, and despise the very thought of His Existence. Yet..

Isa 55:8 For, my thoughts, are not, your thoughts, Nor, your ways, my ways,—Declareth Yahweh.

I say 'Amen, to that, Lord'.

- Daywalker.

[arion]

I've been thinking along the same lines the last few days.  There were precious few 'pastors' that I paid any attention to as most of them seemed full of vanity and wanting to build their own little fifedoms instead of the things of God, or they would go off on a hundred different rabbit trails paying attention to one or two doctrines and ignoring the rest.  And yet, all of those pastors that I respected (and there was only a few) all hold to the damnable doctrine of hell as taught by orthodoxy.

I was looking over the writings of one of them who was writing shortly after 911 that all of those hijackers were now buring in hell forever....and I could read no further.  Automatically sentenced to hell upon death with never having being judged guilty by the Lord.  And these pastors all believed in the immortality of the soul so upon death your either in heaven or in hell and yet by that they deny many scriptures that tell us about the process.  And how they accept and preach that God is love yet although we know that God never changes and love never fails, yet they teach at the moment of death that God's love for the sinner now changes to hate and a hate worse than the worst despot who has ever lived. 

The thing is that I of course could never see these truths either and I was just as guilty as they in speaking to others and warning them about the hell that burns forever.  But now that my eyes have been opened I'm seeing God's whole and complete plan of salvation all throughout the scriptures and in scriptures that before I never would of thought had anything to do with salvation or the reconcilliation of all creation.  Truly in the eons all creation will praise him and every knee shall bow and every tongue confess to the glory of God that Jesus is Lord when we all see truly how great God's love really is.

[aqrinc]

Daywalker,

Here are 2 translations of the same Scripture; it is amazing how we can find these Pearls;
where before there was only fear and death and hell to keep us inline.

Rom 5: 6-10 (CLV)
6 For Christ, while we are still infirm, still in accord with the era, for the sake of the irreverent, died."
7 For hardly for the sake of a just man will anyone be dying: for, for the sake of a good man, perhaps someone may even be daring to die,
8 yet God is commending this love of His to us, seeing that, while we are still sinners, Christ died for our sakes."
9 Much rather, then, being now justified in His blood, we shall be saved from indignation, through Him."
10 For if, being enemies, we were conciliated to God through the death of His Son, much rather, being conciliated, we shall be saved in His life."

Rom 5: 6-10 (GW)
6  Look at it this way: At the right time, while we were still helpless, Christ died for ungodly people.
7  Finding someone who would die for a godly person is rare. Maybe someone would have the courage to die for a good person.
8  Christ died for us while we were still sinners. This demonstrates God's love for us.
9  Since Christ's blood has now given us God's approval, we are even more certain that Christ will save us from God's anger.
10  If the death of his Son restored our relationship with God while we were still his enemies, we are even more certain that, because of this restored relationship, the life of his Son will save us.

george.

[Marlene]

Here are some scriptures , that really hit me that I had read, while blind. There, are so many more but these shook me up. Because, he opened my eyes.

John Chapter 12 verse 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men into me.

John Chapter 3 verse 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

This verse really makes me think. How we love our loved ones, but think God is not more loving. We don't wish our loved one would go to Hell. At least, I hope not.

Job Chapter 4 vers 17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

One, night while Reading Ray's articles these scriptures jumped out at me. I have to laugh when I see how blind I was. God does conceal.

John Chapter 6 verse 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Man who is blinded thinks they choose him.

In His Love,
Marlene

[daywalker]

Arion: The thing is that I of course could never see these truths either and I was just as guilty as they in speaking to others and warning them about the hell that burns forever.  But now that my eyes have been opened I'm seeing God's whole and complete plan of salvation all throughout the scriptures and in scriptures that before I never would of thought had anything to do with salvation or the reconcilliation of all creation.

So true. This is what keeps us humble also, knowing that "but by the grace of God", we would still be Living in Babylon, or perhaps worse. I, too, am finding God's Truths everywhere, all the time. Every day that I read the Bible, it's a whole new book.

PS: I don't believe we've 'met' yet, so hello, nice to meet you.


george: ...it is amazing how we can find these Pearls...

As usual great insight! This, to me, is a huge dagger to the Church, that Christ died for us, while we were yet sinners.


Marlene: Here are some scriptures , that really hit me that I had read, while blind. There, are so many more but these shook me up. Because, he opened my eyes.

I remember the first time I read Job 4:17 in one of Ray's articles, that was the "first blow" to my Babylonian 'faith'. Before  that, I was reading through his writings, and I was very intrigued by his arguments, and the Scriptures seemed like they may be supporting him... But then Ray 'dropped' that verse on me, and I distinctly remember a huge chill go down my spine, and I felt a little dizzy. It was weird. But that was the moment where I started to really pay attention to what Ray was saying, and that's when I started to pray, and meditate, and believe that what he was teaching might actually be true.

From that moment on, I haven't looked back, and God-willing, I won't ever again.


Thanks for your posts.

- Daywalker.

[aqrinc]

This book of Acts speaks volumes about things i have read over and totally missed until GOD Was Ready for me to see.

Since we have been given to start understanding the real good news Of The Kingdom.
We now know why, we need to Seek first The Kingdom Of GOD and HIS Righteousness.

Act 17: 18-32 (GNB)
18  Certain Epicurean and Stoic teachers also debated with him. Some of them asked, "What is this ignorant show-off trying to say?" Others answered, "He seems to be talking about foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching about Jesus and the resurrection.
19  So they took Paul, brought him before the city council, the Areopagus, and said, "We would like to know what this new teaching is that you are talking about.
20  Some of the things we hear you say sound strange to us, and we would like to know what they mean."
21  (For all the citizens of Athens and the foreigners who lived there liked to spend all their time telling and hearing the latest new thing.)
22  Paul stood up in front of the city council and said, "I see that in every way you Athenians are very religious.
23  For as I walked through your city and looked at the places where you worship, I found an altar on which is written, 'To an Unknown God.' That which you worship, then, even though you do not know it, is what I now proclaim to you.
24  God, who made the world and everything in it, is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.
25  Nor does he need anything that we can supply by working for him, since it is he himself who gives life and breath and everything else to everyone.
26  From one human being he created all races of people and made them live throughout the whole earth. He himself fixed beforehand the exact times and the limits of the places where they would live.
27  He did this so that they would look for him, and perhaps find him as they felt around for him. Yet God is actually not far from any one of us;
28  as someone has said, 'In him we live and move and exist.' It is as some of your poets have said, 'We too are his children.'
29  Since we are God's children, we should not suppose that his nature is anything like an image of gold or silver or stone, shaped by human art and skill.
30  God has overlooked the times when people did not know him, but now he commands all of them everywhere to turn away from their evil ways.
31  For he has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death!"
32  When they heard Paul speak about a raising from death, some of them made fun of him, but others said, "We want to hear you speak about this again."

george.

[daywalker]

Rodger: God does not use such a "damnable heresy", But rather it is a man indoctrination golden calf idol of the carnal mind and heart. This is used by charlatans and the dead church to instill unabashed fear. How else do you suppose those tbn evilgelicals and prest and peddlers rake in all that moola for VANITY in things like theme parks, private jets and bling, bling.    I would not even bat an eye, if their troughs of greed began this new recession...


Hey Rodger,

Thanks for your insight. I do enjoy reading your posts. God has given you much wisdom.

I didn't mean that God deliberately or directly uses "damnable heresies" to conceal His Truths, but ultimately He does, since He is Sovereign and the ultimate cause of all things... Just like He doesn't deliberately make a man lust over little girls...

Yes, He uses many unseen and unnoticed circumstances [that is unless you have the eyes to see and the ears to hear], such as 'lying spirits', man's own lusts and carnal mind, and even Satan himself...


I've read both of Ray's papers that you mentioned.. [Splinter in the Flesh, twice]. Being raised in a Baptist Church here in California, I was never taught much about 'speaking in tongues', so even previously to finding BT, I was already skeptic of those who claim to speak in tongues. I actually had a confrontation with a Pentecostal guy, back in High School. He claimed to speak in Angelic Tongues, and claimed that unless I could too, that I was a 'true Christian'.  But whenever I asked him to show me, he claimed that he couldn't do it 'on command'.  ... of course, I called him a phony...

Looking back I can only laugh. But not in self-righteousness, because we both believed in Eternal Hell, and the Trinity and all that nonsense...

Well, I'm glad that's over. 

- Daywalker.

[judith collier]

Daywalker, that chapter and verse you suggested meant a lot to me, JOB ch.4 v.17. One of my problems was the fact that ME, MYSELF, could never send anyone to hell for all eternity but I thought, who am I to disagree with learned teachers.  Even experiencing God's love and mercy, I still had the nagging thought of hell but I always hoped against hope it was somehow not a sure thing. Even coming here it was easy for me to accept but still not too sure somehow. And then JOB ch.4 v.17, Shall mortal man be more just than God? Shall a man be more pure than his Maker? I also think somehow I never believed in free will and that was linked to my being appalled at the thought of hell. If a psychologist can go before our courts and plead with the judge to consider the upbringing or sick mind of a person's life then think how much more Jesus is doing for us and for all men.  Thanks, Judy

[hillsbororiver]

Eze 17:2  Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;

Luk 8:10  And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

We should all be very thankful, even humbled by having His Spirit reveal things that so many have not been blessed (yet) to receive.

Peace,

Joe 

[aqrinc]

Eze 17:2  Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;

Luk 8:10  And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

We should all be very thankful, even humbled by having His Spirit reveal things that so many have not been blessed (yet) to receive.

Peace,

Joe 

Amen Joe,

Thankful and humbled is a good beginning. When the realization finally comes, of how great a GIFT; we puny humans have been given; there will be some bending knees and praising tongues. Those can see now; need to be even more humbled and diligent to run a good race for the Master.

Php 2: 5-11 (WNT) Weymouth NT
5  Let the same disposition be in you which was in Christ Jesus.
6  Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.
7  Nay, He stripped Himself of His glory, and took on Him the nature of a bondservant by becoming a man like other men.
8  And being recognized as truly human, He humbled Himself and even stooped to die; yes, to die on a cross.
9  It is in consequence of this that God has also so highly exalted Him, and has conferred on Him the Name which is supreme above every other,
10  in order that in the Name of JESUS every knee should bow, of beings in Heaven, of those on the earth, and of those in the underworld,
11  and that every tongue should confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD, to the glory of God the Father.

george.

[arion]

Hey George;

What translation is that you quote from quite often...the GNB??  I don't think I've heard of that one.  I like how it reads and would look for an esword module on it if there is one.

[aqrinc]

Hi Arion,

GNB, GOOD NEWS Translation is available on E-sword. Sometimes it is great sometimes not so great in reading.

george.

[arion]

Thanks, looking for it now.  I'm finding it very helpful now to compare several different versions whereas I was always a KJV only.  After all thats the innerent version you know!!     At least thats what the KJV only people I was hanging with several years ago believed.

[aqrinc]

I used to talk about the only good translation being KJV also. Talk about wet fish slap in the face,
comparing the original Old KJV with The New and Rotherhams and CLV, big time revelation.

george.

[Terry]

Hello my friends i've been reading your post this morning as i always do and would like to thank God for ever one of you here at BT.With out Ray and all of you i don't know how i could make it, i've been studing here for about three years now since God brought me out of the world church i don't post much this is the second time i felt i needed to learn all over again and learn i have. Except for my wife and those here at BT i have no one to fellowship with, and for my wife God brought her out at the same time how good is that?
My brother is a preacher and my Mom has been going to their church for many years and yet now i can't fellowship with them, they think i've gone off the deep in,what i'd give to be able to fellowship with them, i know that only God can do this, i have tried to get through to them with plain and simple Scriptures but it seems to make things worst,so after three years of studing here at BT i believe we have the same thing in common, so thats why i thank GOD for everyone of you,please pray for me and my family and GOD Bless You All.

In His Love
Terry

[Kat]

Hi Terry,

Well I'm glad you joined in the discussion.  So many of us have only the brethren via the internet to fellowship with, and like you said; "With out Ray and all of you i don't know how i could make it." 

We are truly blessed that God has provided this place for us.  Do try to join in the discussions more.  I think you will appreciate it even more once you join in regularly, because it takes on a whole new dimension once you participate.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Terry]

Thanks Kat you're very kind, i do plan to join in more often.

In His Love
Terry

[aqrinc]

Hi Terry,

Welcome to the discussion side of the forum. I will echo all the things you wrote because, with little differences, my experience is very similar. So you know; I have been here less than a year from first being dragged kicking and screaming to BT. In that time GOD Has paddled, coaxed, chastened and cuddled me; sometimes all at the same time.

The Fellowship is indispensable to me now, there is nowhere else to go without picking up a bunch of other filthy rags. My hope and Prayer is that more of our longtime members will rejoin the discussion side of the forum.

In exchanging our thoughts by on-line chat, it gets frustrating and even contentious sometimes. Again my hope is that members grow through those differences and recognize that personalities do not matter, only what we do to edify the brethren and sisthren is of GOD.

Well that is my story, and i am sticking to it, welcome back; other members please do join in occasionally.

Love Patience and Longsuffering, In GOD And Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb 10: 24-25 (LITV) Literal translation
24  And let us consider one another, to incitement of love and of good works,
25  not forsaking the assembling together of ourselves (On-line), as is the custom of some, but exhorting, and by so much more as you see the Day drawing near.


george.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Terry

I did not want to join the Forum at first and after I did I could not stay away!

As Kat observes, it opens up another dimension.

Being a participant here has helped shape my understanding and has reinforced my comprehension of the teachings that are applicable to the variety of topics and discussions going on here at any one time. It is a deep exercise that challenges discernment to identify false understanding and accurate Truth. It provides the opportunity to practise communication skills regarding the Truths that Ray so easily seems to manage to explain with simplicity that even a 10 year old can understand! It has equipped me to communicate better, integrate and appreciate the Word of God better by a direct and personal experience here in the Forum.

It has been a privilege and blessing to say the least.

Grace be with you

Arcturus

[Marlene]

Hi Terry, Glad you are posting and joining in with us. My Husbands family do not know completely what is going on. I do not think they know we no longer go to church. We live in the same town, but had not gone to the church that we all were members of for years. We, left over how the minister mistreated those who were not able to tithe 10 percent.

My Mother and Husband and I all left because we saw too many people be hurt. That , included us. My Mother does not understand it all and misses church more for the social part. My Husband is fine with me wanting to not go to organized church. I am hoping sometime they will get interested to read Ray's articles and learn the Bible over. 

I am glad your wife stands with you. Mine is ok with it, but I am sure he has never told his family.  I just hope my Mother and Husband will take more interest in it.

I really need everyone on here. They will pray for you anyting you need it. To me they are a blessing God has given me and other Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

In His Love,
Marlene