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[Marlene]

Hello, I have been reading all of I John. When, I came to Chapter 5

Verse. 16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Is this speaking of once you believe, and then you would not believe anymore. You would turn your back on Christ.

I do not remember Ray talking about this, but I could be wrong.

In His Love,
Marlene

[aqrinc]

Hello, I have been reading all of I John. When, I came to Chapter 5

Verse. 16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Is this speaking of once you believe, and then you would not believe anymore. You would turn your back on Christ.

I do not remember Ray talking about this, but I could be wrong.

In His Love,
Marlene

Hi Marlene,

This verse is not directly addressed here, however your answer is in this paper. I took out
a couple excerpts, but you need to read this paper completely when you have a bit of time.

CAN WE LOSE GOD’S SPIRIT AND EONIAN LIFE? . . . . Biblestudy March 2008
 
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7047.msg56003.html#msg56003

Excerpt #1:         
 
             [Is “once saved always saved” - Scripturally true or false?]
             [And what does it matter? Are not all saved ‘anyway’?]


 HOW TO BE IN THE FORMER RESURRECTION:

How to be in the former resurrection, what do we have to do? 

John 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Damnation just mean judgment, tribunal.  How is it that you come into the first resurrection?  It says right there, by doing good.  There it is!  We read that so many times and we don’t pay attention to it.  Yet there it is.  Who comes up in the first?  “They that have done good.”  That’s not hard to understand. 

Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death (this is talking about baptism in the sixth chapter of Rom.), we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:

Philippians 3:11  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
 
Is there a point in time where you say no matter what I do I’m going to be in the former resurrection, because I have this and that promise and pledge?  Was Paul lying when he said, “If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead .”  Meaning I’ll do everything that I know of or can think of to be sure that God is pleased with me.  “By any means,”  Why would he say that if it’s a done deal? 

Notice it, how do we come up in the likeness of His resurrection?  “If” at the beginning of the verse, “If we have been planted together in the likeness of His death.”  We know what baptism pictures, it pictures dying to yourself, dying to the evil, carnal, lustful things that are bad about human nature.  You die to that and that’s what baptism pictures.  You go under the water, you can’t live under the water.  So it pictures death, real death.  You go under water and if somebody holds you down you will die.  The water is always pictured as cleansing.  Water cleans, you wash in water.  God’s word is likened to water, you see.  What we are teaching here today.  Hopefully these words, they will wash us.  They wash our minds and our conscience and all of these things. 

But there’s that big ‘IF’ again.  “For IF this, then that.  But what if not this?  Well if not this, then not that.  This is really elementary stuff.  But I mean somebody has got to point it out, I understand that, I’m not poking fun. 

Excerpt #2

I say in that paper, Peter warns against being willfully ignorant (2 Peter 3:5).  But this is in reference to being homosexual, and some will say, ‘I don’t see a problem with that.’  But if we sin willfully you see, there is no more sacrifice, there is judgment, there’s indignation (Heb. 10:27).  Christ warns against lusting and these are all statements and I’ll read them from the article.
---  While “Christ died for our sins” (1 Cor. 15:3), all sins that Jesus died for must be repented of or that person will not inherit the Kingdom of God. ---

Where did he get from that, that you are going to heaven anyway?  I just said he won’t, then I gave a Scripture.  And he said, ‘you (Ray) say they are all going to heaven ‘anyway.’  No, there is no ’anyway’ about it.

---  But will rather be raised up in judgment.  Christ dying for the sins of the world is not the final step with the issue of sin and sinners.  The final step is to GET THE SIN OUT OF THE SINNER, and that is precisely what will happened, Christ “will judge the world in righteousness” (Acts 17:31) and the ungodly “will learn righteousness” (Isa. 26:9).  Then and only then will “God be ALL in all” (1 Cor. 15:28).

Notice next what Paul says after declaration against  a list of 27 major sins.  Paul’s statement that “…they which commit such things are worthy of DEATH.  ---

How do you get from a statement like that, to… ‘well we’re all going to heaven anyway’ and ‘I can live whatever way I want and then I’ll die and go to heaven.’  How do you get that from all these Scriptures?  I just marvel, I’m just dumbfounded.

---  “What shall we say then?  Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?  God forbid.  How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (Rom. 6:1-2).

There is salvation available, and it is by grace, not our own personal works of righteousness, but we must first repent.  If I condoned my own past sins, I never would have repented of them.  ---

‘Yea but I can do whatever I want and not repent of them and it still leads to God anyway, doesn’t it Ray?’  No it doesn’t, it leads to judgment and firey indignation and the wrath of God.  It’s not going to be happy happy.

---  “Where in times past you walked according to the course of this world… Among whom also we all had our conduct in times past in the lust of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh…” (Eph. 2:2-3).

george.

[gmik]

Thanks Rodger and George. I love being refreshed w/ Ray's excerpts.

[child in the making]

Thanks for the question Marlene.

Thanks for the help people.



Ray's comment: No, we do not have salvation now, what we have now is a “pledge” “with a view TO the redemption…” A “pledge and a view” are NOT possession.  Did the Patriarchs “possess” their inheritance?

Heb 11:13  “These all died in faith,not having received the promises,but having seen them [with a view ] afar off…”

Hebrews 11:13 (Concordant nt) In faith died all these(those who died in faith before the Savior died)[, not being requited with the promises, but perceiving them ahead and saluting them, and avowing that they are strangers and expatriates on the earth.

(CNT)
11 Now Christ coming along a Chief Priest of the impending good things through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not of this creation;
12 not even through the blood of he-goats and calves, but through His own blood, entered once for all time into the holy places, finding eonian redemption.
13 For if the blood of he-goats and of bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling the contaminated, is hallowing to the cleanness of the flesh,
14 how much rather shall the blood of Christ, Who, through the eonian spirit offers Himself flawless to God, be cleansing your conscience from dead works to be offering divine service to the living and true God?15 And therefore He is the Mediator of a new covenant, so that at a death occurring for the deliverance of the transgressions of those under the first covenant, those who are called may be obtaining the promise of the eonian enjoyment of the allotment.16 For where there is a covenant, it is necessary to bring in the death of the covenant victim,
17 for a covenant is confirmed over the dead, since it is not availing at any time when the covenant victim is living.
18 Whence neither the first has been dedicated apart from blood.
19 For, every precept being spoken by Moses to the entire people according to the law, taking the blood of calves and of he-goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, he sprinkles both the scroll itself and the entire people,
20 saying, This is the blood of the covenant which God directs for you.
21 Now the tabernacle also, and all the vessels of the ministry he likewise sprinkles with the blood.
22 And almost all is being cleansed in blood according to the law, and apart from bloodshedding is coming no pardon.
23It was necessary, then, for the examples, indeed, of that in the heavens to be cleansed with these yet the celestial things themselves with better sacrifices(?) than these. 24 For Christ entered not into holy places made by hands, representations of the true, but into heaven itself, now to be disclosed to the face of God for our sakes. 25 Nor yet is it that He may be offering Himself often, even as the chief priest is entering into the holies of holies year by year by the blood of others,
26 since then He must often be suffering from the disruption of the world, yet now, once, at the conclusion of the eons, for the repudiation of sin through His sacrifice, is He manifest.
27 And, in as much as it is reserved to the men to be dying once, yet after this a judging,
28 thus Christ  also, being offered once for the bearing of the sins of many, will be seen a second time, by those awaiting Him, apart from sin, for salvation, through faith.
 
I'm not sure Marlene but it seems that the answer is contained in the last verse of 1 John 5.

21 Little children, guard yourselves from idols!(Concordant)
  It is definitely something to pray about.

the Spirit be with you to give you full understanding according to His will.

Child in the making