Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TheRysta]

This is the kind of question which many Christians should ask themselves but simply never do. I would probably have not either. I didn't find this point on Ray's site (I'm not sure if he mentions it or not) but from tentmaker.com. The simple point is that the Jews originally had no concept of eternal torture in the afterlife. This is clearly the most important thing to be warning people about. However, in spite of all this, hell is warned about surprisingly little. Take Paul for example- from what I've heard he doesn't even warn of eternal punishment in the afterlife. Just imagine being in his position. If you had recieved this revelation that millions shall burn forever (and you didn't know this beforehand), shouldn't your priority be to warn people as much as possible?

It's an interesting point. I don't like using the example of Paul though as he never met Jesus. However, when you consider that the books of the bible were determined in the Council of Nicea for the Roman Empire, Paul's works make up up to 45% of the New Testament (I think). Couldn't they find any better or more threatening books? Surely they had it in mind to control the masses, so they would have chosen the books which had the largest threat of hellfire. Then we can assume that the ones which were disregarded were even less graphic!

Interesting stuff.

[kenny]

my friend read these before you go very much farther in this forum.
http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html
[  http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html
 http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html
  http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html
  http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html
   http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html.html/color]

and that is just a start

[Craig]

You are right hell is not warned of by Paul, Paul teaches the dying to oneself and to overcome sin.  Paul also teaches that we can never do this on our own however, and because of Christ we are given the opportunity to become one with God.

Religion does spend most of its time warning about hell though.  It tricks people into dividing into us and them it is used to control the members.  When is the last time you have heard a sermon on the good news of scripture?  We are warned of a fabled torturous hell and told that we must make the choice to accept Christ and go there or not.  So we say a sinners prayer, leave church feeling warm and fuzzy and we live like hell, because we are "saved".  

Then we become beaten down because we cannot will away our sins.  We get saved this Sunday, and told we are going to "Heaven" and next Sunday we are told if we don't "tithe, stop drinking/smoking, believe in some odd doctrine our denomination believes in", we are going to hell...So we try to follow the "rules of religion" and live in fear and turmoil the rest of our lives.

WELL WHAT IS IT?  Did Christ die for the sins of the whole world and creation or not?  Do we believe we can will our own selves to God?  Dieing to our carnal flesh and Christ taking our place is the whole purpose of scripture, and the thing most of us cannot comprehend.  

Craig

[Marky Mark]

This is the kind of question which many Christians should ask themselves but simply never do. I would probably have not either. I didn't find this point on Ray's site (I'm not sure if he mentions it or not) but from tentmaker.com. The simple point is that the Jews originally had no concept of eternal torture in the afterlife. This is clearly the most important thing to be warning people about. However, in spite of all this, hell is warned about surprisingly little. Take Paul for example- from what I've heard he doesn't even warn of eternal punishment in the afterlife. Just imagine being in his position. If you had recieved this revelation that millions shall burn forever (and you didn't know this beforehand), shouldn't your priority be to warn people as much as possible?

It's an interesting point. I don't like using the example of Paul though as he never met Jesus. However, when you consider that the books of the bible were determined in the Council of Nicea for the Roman Empire, Paul's works make up up to 45% of the New Testament (I think). Couldn't they find any better or more threatening books? Surely they had it in mind to control the masses, so they would have chosen the books which had the largest threat of hellfire. Then we can assume that the ones which were disregarded were even less graphic!

Interesting stuff.

I don't like using the example of Paul though as he never met Jesus.

Well,if walking down the road to Damascus was not of a proper intoduction to Jesus,then I'm a monkeys uncle.




Acts 9
 3 But as he was going, it came to pass that he drew near to Damascus, and suddenly there flashed around him a light from heaven;

4 and having fallen to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him: Saul, Saul,why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said: Who art thou, Lord? And he said: I am Jesus whom thou persecuteth!  

[indianabob]

So, Mark, you do believe in reverse evolution in some sense.  You're brother is the father of a monkey???   

Sorry, it was just too cute to resist.   Bob


Well,if walking down the road to Damascus was not of a proper intoduction to Jesus,then I'm a monkeys uncle.




Acts 9
 3 But as he was going, it came to pass that he drew near to Damascus, and suddenly there flashed around him a light from heaven;

4 and having fallen to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him: Saul, Saul,why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said: Who art thou, Lord? And he said: I am Jesus whom thou persecuteth!  

[/quote]

[musicman]

However, when you consider that the books of the bible were determined in the Council of Nicea for the Roman Empire, Paul's works make up up to 45% of the New Testament (I think). Couldn't they find any better or more threatening books? Surely they had it in mind to control the masses, so they would have chosen the books which had the largest threat of hellfire. T

I think that if the books were in fact chosen at the Council of Nicea for the Roman Empire, the books chosen would have been more threatening.  But since this is false, they went with the books already established for the Canon.

[aqrinc]

TheRysta,

It took the power of the romish church to create a christian hell of everlasting torture.

Take a bit of time to read this one paper by Ray, it will give you enough to at least open your eyes.

Installment 16 - HELL Part D

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D1.htm

Excerpt #1

The "Christian hell" is a Christian HOAX

The Holy Scriptures know nothing of a Christian hell of eternal torment.

The Christian hell is a Christian hoax.

The Jewish hell is a Jewish hoax.

The Islamic hell is a Islamic hoax.

The Greek hell is a Greek hoax.

The Hindu hell is a Hindu hoax.

The Babylonian hell is a Babylonian hoax.

The Egyptian hell is an Egyptian hoax.

And every other hell of every other culture and religion on earth is a man-made HOAX!

For thousands of years the religious and civil leaders of virtually every major nation and culture on earth have used the fear and terror of a future "hell" to keep their citizens (always considered dumb sheep by the elite clerics and governors) obedient to the whims of their authority. This practice continues unabated to this day, and the majority of the human race has ignorantly bought it.

Only three verses in the New Testament speak of "hell fire." In all three of these verses hell is translated from the Greek Gehenna.  

In this Part D, we will go through every verse containing the word "hell" that is translated from the Greek/Hebrew, GayHinnom/GeHenna.

Later we will go through all the verses in the New Testament translated "hell" from the Greek word hades.

We will also discuss in detail such words and phrases as:

"fire, furnace of fire,
salted with fire,
unquenchable fire,
hell fire,
Gehenna fire,
everlasting fire,
fire on the earth,
coals of fire,
tormented in flames,
lake of fire,
baptized by fire,
SAVED by fire,
worms that die not,
gnashing of teeth,
outer darkness,
tormented for ever and ever,
unpardonable sin,
broad is the way,
depart from me I never knew you,
the damnation of hell,
eternal damnation,
the resurrection of damnation,
he that believes not shall be damned,
everlasting punishment,
everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
and more.


Excerpt #2

The "Christian hell" is a Christian HOAX

Ever wonder why the wicked including backsliding Christians are supposedly going to the pagan Greek hell, as opposed to their own Hebrew hell? Well, it's because the Hebrews never had a hell of their own. They borrowed it from the Egyptians even though God specifically forbad them to do such things:

"...and that you enquire NOT after their gods..." (Deut. 12:30).

"Thus says the Lord, Learn NOT the way of the heathen..." (Jer. 10:2).

Now I get persecuted all the time by men of the cloth about being a stupid roofer with zero hermeneutical and exegetical skills. However, let me say this in my own defense. I know what the word "not" means in the above two verses, but apparently those very skilled in hermeneutical and exegetical skills have not a clue as to what the word "not" means in those two verses. If they did, they would NOT be teaching the whole world these evil hell doctrines of the heathens.

"When the Lord thy God shall cut off the nations... take heed to thyself that you be NOT snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before you; and that you enquire NOT after their gods saying: How did these nations serve their gods? Even so will I do likewise" (Deut. 12:29-30).

"After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein you dwelled, shall you NOT do and after the doings of the land of Canaan, where I bring you, shall you NOT do: NEITHER shall you walk in their ordinances" (Lev. 18:3).

Notice the words, "enquire not after their gods: How did these nations serve their gods." The Egyptian doctrines surrounding the hereafter are based solely on their gods and how they served those gods. Christendom has incorporated the religion of these Egyptian gods into the Christian faith. Such accepted beliefs as, man's soul is immortal; there is judgment immediately upon death; the dead are not dead at all, but still living; there is an immediate heaven (depicted by both Egyptians and Greeks, as fields of leisure and happiness); and there is an immediate sentencing for the wicked, to a destiny that can never be changed or improved. These Egyptian fables are the fundamental principles upon which the Christian doctrine of judgment and the hereafter are based.

george.

[Marky Mark]

So, Mark, you do believe in reverse evolution in some sense.  You're brother is the father of a monkey???   

Sorry, it was just too cute to resist.   Bob

Hey Bob,   
 
   If I did have a monkey for a nephew, this one would be the monkeys meow.    No bribes please.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4WVZDljBfk



Peace...Mark

[SandyFla]

Take Paul for example- from what I've heard he doesn't even warn of eternal punishment in the afterlife. Just imagine being in his position. If you had recieved this revelation that millions shall burn forever (and you didn't know this beforehand), shouldn't your priority be to warn people as much as possible?

I posed that same question to a Christian on another message board. Remember when he testified before King Agrippa, and the king told Paul that he almost persuaded him to be a Christian? What would today's Christian say to Agrippa? "If you don't, you'll burn forever in hell." But Paul didn't mention that, or even threaten Agrippa with the possibility. I asked her, why wouldn't he? Her reply was that Paul had warned people many times before. I asked her to show me where. Of course she couldn't, so instead she told everyone not to listen to what I had to say because it was heretical.

They don't see it even when they can't prove it. Shows how blinded their eyes are. Only God can open them.

Sandy

[Mando]

Take Paul for example- from what I've heard he doesn't even warn of eternal punishment in the afterlife. Just imagine being in his position. If you had recieved this revelation that millions shall burn forever (and you didn't know this beforehand), shouldn't your priority be to warn people as much as possible?

I posed that same question to a Christian on another message board. Remember when he testified before King Agrippa, and the king told Paul that he almost persuaded him to be a Christian? What would today's Christian say to Agrippa? "If you don't, you'll burn forever in hell." But Paul didn't mention that, or even threaten Agrippa with the possibility. I asked her, why wouldn't he? Her reply was that Paul had warned people many times before. I asked her to show me where. Of course she couldn't, so instead she told everyone not to listen to what I had to say because it was heretical.

They don't see it even when they can't prove it. Shows how blinded their eyes are. Only God can open them.

Sandy

I was also writing to one of my co-worker's dad by letters, when finally he didn't want to write anymore. I used hundreds of scriptures, back to back to prove Jesus as the Savior of the world. He said my doctrine was totally false, but didn't use any scripture to prove me wrong. he did say this, "if your right i have nothing to worry about, but if your wrong you will find yourself with the sheep or goats, its your choice?" He thought the old "turn or burn" doctrine was gonna put a wrench in believing what I proved to be true. according to him i am a heretic.
                                                               Praise Him
                                                                      Mando