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Author Topic: White Throne Judgement  (Read 6191 times)

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Terry

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White Throne Judgement
« on: March 15, 2009, 03:59:01 PM »

titus21115
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     Not taste death
« on: March 06, 2009, 08:10:30 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Everyone,


What is this verse saying ? How can the people of that day see Christ coming into his kingdom if there raised in the GWTJ after it happens ?


Mat 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Any help would be appreciated.

-Matt
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
I understand that Peter, John and James saw Christ in a vision but my question is from the question above (How can the people of that day see Christ coming into his kingdom if there raised in the GWTJ after it happens ? So my question is can't Peter,John and James or anyone else in Christ at that time be in the first resurrection when Christ appears?

I've always thought that all in Christ wheather before his birth or after would be in the first ressurection.

In His Love
Terry
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Terry

Deborah-Leigh

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Re: White Throne Judgement
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2009, 04:44:06 PM »

Hi Terry

Excerpt from Hell Part E - Hades and the second death. http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm

WHEN DO GOD'S ELECT DIE ONCE BEFORE THEIR SECOND DEATH?

But how do the Elect "die once but after this Judgment?" It rather seems that they would receive Judgment [in this life], and then after this [judgment] they would once die. No, the sequence is the same for the Elect as it is for the wicked: "And it is appointed unto men [including the Elect] once to die, but after this [after this necessary 'once to die' declaration, then follows...], Judgment" (Heb. 9:27). And what did we learn Judgment is? Why, THE SECOND DEATH. There can only be a "second" death if it is first preceded by another death.

Now for the second part of the Heb. 9:27 riddle: When and how do God's Elect die "ONCE" before their SECOND death Judgment? Some of you should already be ahead of me with all the hints I have given you, but for the rest who haven't figured it out yet, you will maybe feel a little embarrassed when you see the answer, so here it is:

"Know ye not [no, of course the majority of Christendom 'knows not,' and that is why the physical aspects of baptism is so important to them...] ...know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into DEATH" (Rom. 6:3-4).

There is the answer to how God's Elect must "once die" before their "Second death Judgment."

The carnal world dies when they breathe their last and go down into the grave. God's Elect die when they are "baptized into death.". After resurrection from the dead, the world will enter into Judgment. And what about us--God's Elect? When do we enter into Judgment? Same way, when we are resurrected from the dead through baptism.

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection" (Rom. 6:4).


GOD'S ELECT MUST DIE THE SECOND DEATH IN FIRE

We would do well to review lessons we learned in the "Lake of Fire" Installment 3, Judgment by Fire Must Begin at the House of God, and Installment 6, The Two Judgments by FIRE, and Installment 16, D-3, The Sermon on the Mount is for YOU.


Regarding being in Christ.

.....our Lord is going to save many times more sinners after death than before death!
http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html



Arc
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Terry

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Re: White Throne Judgement
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2009, 05:04:10 PM »

Thanks Arc i'm going to have to chew on that for a while.
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Terry

hillsbororiver

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Re: White Throne Judgement
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2009, 05:35:11 PM »

titus21115
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     Not taste death
« on: March 06, 2009, 08:10:30 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Everyone,


What is this verse saying ? How can the people of that day see Christ coming into his kingdom if there raised in the GWTJ after it happens ?


Mat 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Any help would be appreciated.

-Matt
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
I understand that Peter, John and James saw Christ in a vision but my question is from the question above (How can the people of that day see Christ coming into his kingdom if there raised in the GWTJ after it happens ? So my question is can't Peter,John and James or anyone else in Christ at that time be in the first resurrection when Christ appears?

I've always thought that all in Christ wheather before his birth or after would be in the first ressurection.

In His Love
Terry


Hi Terry,

Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding your question. First off I do not know where the idea that Peter, John, etc. would not be present at His return, yes they will be in their graves prior to that moment but look at what Paul writes;


1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent(G5348) them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

G5348
φθάνω
phthanō
fthan'-o
Apparently a primary verb; to be beforehand, that is, anticipate or precede; by extension to have arrived at: - (already) attain, come, prevent.

We see that those who are alive at Christ's return do not preceed the dead in Christ, they do not see Him beforehand but this happens simultaniously, the dead in Christ (the saved/elect) along with (the saved/elect) who are alive "meet our Lord in the air."

Peace,

Joe

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: White Throne Judgement
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2009, 05:40:56 PM »

Hi Terry

It may sound very difficult to understand the brief excerpt that I have posted to you.

Perhaps it would be far easier to comprehend if you just go to the teaching in its fullness and start at the beginning. Just click on http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm and enjoy.

Grace be with you

Arc
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aqrinc

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Re: White Throne Judgement
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2009, 06:12:46 PM »

Hi Terry,

Being a long time forum member, you may have forgotten many of the first writings of Ray; that helped to open your eyes. One good thing is the (papers) are all still here, if you have any questions and can help with a short description we can together find answers or discuss it and learn more. Please by all means keep right on reading and asking as we learn together.

Paul expected to be one of the Our or We that he writes of below. Bold added by me.

1Th 2:19 (CLV)
For who is our expectation, or joy, or wreath of glorying? Or is it not even you, in front of our Lord Jesus, in His presence?

Here is the same information as Joe gave using the different Translations

1Th 4: 14-18 (LITV)
14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with Him all those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.

15  For we say this to you in the Word of the Lord, that we the living who remain to the coming of the Lord will not at all go before those who have fallen asleep.

16  Because the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel's voice, and with God's trumpet. And the dead in Christ will rise again first.

17  Then we who remain alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to a meeting with the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18  So, then, comfort each other with these words.

george. :)

« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 06:28:01 PM by aqr »
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Kat

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Re: White Throne Judgement
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2009, 07:51:43 PM »


Hi Terry,

Quote
I've always thought that all in Christ wheather before his birth or after would be in the first ressurection.

Nobody 'before' Christ's birth could be reconciled to the Father, because it was only accomplished "through Jesus Christ."

2Co 5:18  Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,

Concerning your question;

Quote
from the question above (How can the people of that day see Christ coming into his kingdom if there raised in the GWTJ after it happens ?

I think this is somewhat a logistical question.  Are you asking how will all the people on earth be able to actually see Christ at His return when He is descending to the earth.

Rev 1:7  Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

We might not understand how this will happen and it would only be speculation to suggest how that might take place.  But I am certain God would not have made this statement if it was not to become a reality.  We are only begun to have our eyes opened to these truth, there is no doubt great mysteries that are yet to be revealed that at this point we have no comprehension of.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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kenny

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Re: White Throne Judgement
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 01:09:07 AM »

[God is Holy and God is Spirit--therefore, God is HOLY Spirit..  ...
...  the "Holy Spirit" is mentioned in the Old Testament:  ...
... .0.html ---------

THerefore SInce the "SPIRIT" (holy spirit) is THE LORD(the father),  ...
...  father must be the spirit.

COMMENT: The "Spirit" is  ...
...  of God the Father--it is "The Spirit OF God." However, God has given His  ...
...  Jesus Christ this SAME spirit. God has shared ALL with His Son: "ALL  ...
...  Me" (Matt. 28:18). Jesus takes of the Spirit His Father has given Him and gives it  ...
... (Parakletos), which is the promised Holy Spirit, which comes to us through JESUS CHRIST, ...
...  and so "The Lord is that SPIRIT."

God be with you,
Ray
/color]

Gen 1:26 And saying is the Elohim, "Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness, and sway shall they over the fish of the sea, and over the flyer of the heavens, and over the beast, and over all land life, and over every moving animal moving on the land. (CLV)

Joh 4:24 God is spirit, and those who are worshiping Him must be worshiping in spirit and truth.(CLV)

2Th 2:2 that you be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be alarmed, either through spirit, or through word, or through an epistle as through us, as that the day of the Lord is present."(CLV)

my friend
the SPIRIT is the answer, GOD IS ALWAYS POURING OUT HIS SPIRIT.
Act 2:17 And it shall be in the last days,' (God is saying) 'I shall be pouring out from My spirit on all flesh, And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your youths visions shall be seeing, And your elders dreams shall be dreaming,

Act 2:18 And surely on My men slaves and on My women slaves in those days shall I be pouring out from My spirit,' and they shall be prophesying."


« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 01:15:14 AM by kenny »
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Terry

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Re: White Throne Judgement
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2009, 11:37:49 AM »

Thanks everyone for your replys i see now that i presented my question the wrong way as .
i understand the ressurection just as you explained it,so what i was really asking was a follow up on the question that Matt was asking.
This is the verse that Matt was asking his question about which i understand perfectly from Rays teaching.
Mat 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matts question was( What is this verse saying ? How can the people of that day see Christ coming into his kingdom if they're raised in the GWTJ after it happens ? )

Matt seems to be saying that the people of that day with Christ will be in the GWTJ,

This is what threw me a little as i understand that they which are a sleep in Christ and those which remain and are alive in Christ will be with him(at the first ressurection) at his coming and everyone else meaning everyone that didn't know Him will be in the GWTJ

If i'm not seeing this right i apoligize for the confusion and stirring up a hornets nest but if you don't ask you may never know and thats what we're here for to learn.
In His Love
Terry



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Terry

mharrell08

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Re: White Throne Judgement
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2009, 12:00:16 PM »

Thanks everyone for your replys i see now that i presented my question the wrong way as .
i understand the ressurection just as you explained it,so what i was really asking was a follow up on the question that Matt was asking.
This is the verse that Matt was asking his question about which i understand perfectly from Rays teaching.
Mat 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matts question was( What is this verse saying ? How can the people of that day see Christ coming into his kingdom if they're raised in the GWTJ after it happens ? )

Matt seems to be saying that the people of that day with Christ will be in the GWTJ,

This is what threw me a little as i understand that they which are a sleep in Christ and those which remain and are alive in Christ will be with him(at the first ressurection) at his coming and everyone else meaning everyone that didn't know Him will be in the GWTJ

If i'm not seeing this right i apoligize for the confusion and stirring up a hornets nest but if you don't ask you may never know and thats what we're here for to learn.
In His Love
Terry


Hello Terry,

I'll make a couple of points to help with any confusion:

1. Christ says there are 'some standing HERE' [disciples were 'standing here] who would not taste death until they see Him coming in His kingdom. Christ was not talking about the people of that day...only some of the disciples 'standing here'.

2. As Ray points out in the email that was posted in this same thread, this was fulfilled in the very next chapter, 17, when Peter, John, and James saw the vision of Christ being transfigured.

3. Also, John would later see 'signs and symbols' on the isle of Patmos which symbolized Christ coming to set up His kingdom [book of Revelation]. This also is a fulfillment of Christ's statements from Matt ch. 16.

4. This statement in bold is what Matt falsely assumed and is unscriptural...but I have talked to him since and he understands now.


Hope that helps,

Marques
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Terry

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Re: White Throne Judgement
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 01:54:29 PM »

Thanks Marques
I understand completely, it was Matts question that i didn't get but i get that to now,also i see now that i must be very clear with my questions because when we post it's not as clear as talking in person.
God Bless
Terry
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Terry

Deborah-Leigh

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Re: White Throne Judgement
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2009, 04:16:17 PM »

Hi Terry

This teaching  is to add to the excellent responces you have already recieved. It may go off the line of your questions but it still is pertanent to WTJ and the ressurection and continues to show how great God is.

Re: Two resurrections; when do they take place?
on: May 27, 2007, 12:47:31 PM

On the "tares" parable, here is the clarification/response.

[Ray's reply]

I hope I did not insinuate that. We (the ELECT) are the WHEAT, and not the tares.  Besides, we cannot be wheat and tares at the same time "growing up TOGETHER" as this parable suggests.
The wheat and the tares grow up TOGETHER in this world: "I pray not that Thou should take them out of the world, but that Thou should keep them FROM THE EVIL" (John `7:15).

The "EVIL" -- "...the TARES are the Children of the wicked one" (Matt. 13:38).  We are the "good seed" which are "the CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM [the Elect]..." (Matt. 13:38).

We are not "tares," but we do have "chaff," and it is that CHAFF that is burned out of us, not "tares."  I pointed this out in my last Installment on HELL:

Here, being baptized (immersed) in fire [pur] is as important and beneficial as being baptized with God's Holy Spirit.

"Whose fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His [threshing] floor, and gather His wheat [wheat is good] into the garner, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire" (Matt. 3:12).

Chaff is the bracts enclosing the good, mature wheat, which is removed during threshing-it has no value as food, and so is burned like the wood, hay, and stubble of  I Cor. 3:12. The Elect are composed of both the valuable wheat and the worthless chaff, but we are not the tares.  Notice that the chaff is "burned up... with unquenchable fire."  If this "unquenchable fire" "burns up" the chaff, surely it cannot be eternal.  Unquenchable has nothing to do with eternal.  Unquenchable fires is Scriptures that are not allowed to be quenched before they are allowed to burn themselves out.


Winnowing Wheat

"He will gather His wheat... but He will burn up the chaff" (Matt. 3:14).

We are the wheat of Jesus' parable, and we have unwanted chaff surrounding our lives. Jesus is not likening some people to wheat and others to chaff. The wheat is not one group and the chaff another, but rather the unwanted chaff belongs to the desired wheat. The wheat is the baby and the chaff is the bath water. We do not throw away the baby with the bath water, but we do throw away the dirty bath water (in this analogy the bath water represents chaff which is burned in fire).

Notice my statement: "we ARE NOT THE TARES," in the middle of the third paragraph.

Hope this clears up your understanding a little better.

God be with you,

Ray

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7500.0.html

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