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[edpro.pits@yahoo.com]

 Did you ever wonder why God said "let us MAKE man in our own image" and then "and God CREATED man in his own image". May be it's the whole idea that first God creates and then He makes (forms) out of what He created.

  Just an idea that man was not originally made in to God's image but is being made (formed) in to it (God's image) through the process of life.

Input is appreciated.

God bless!

Edward

[mharrell08]

Did you ever wonder why God said "let us MAKE man in our own image" and then "and God CREATED man in his own image". May be it's the whole idea that first God creates and then He makes (forms) out of what He created.

  Just an idea that man was not originally made in to God's image but is being made (formed) in to it (God's image) through the process of life.

Input is appreciated.

God bless!

Edward

Hello Edward,

Welcome to the forum. 

I believe Ray spoke on this at the last bible conference, last year in Nashville. Here is an excerpt (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9502.0.html [Audio #6]):

But it appears the scriptures and scientists are agreeing on this one.  So in the beginning God had created the heavens and the earth and they were finished from the very foundation.  How so?  I mean, well we have to see what it was He ‘created’ and what He later ‘made’ from what He created.  We’ll see the foolishness of such heretics as this.  They have not a clue as to where they’re talking about. 

“In the beginning God had created the heavens and the earth.”  We know from science it’s at a starting point and spread out.  We know from the scriptures it started with God and spread out.  Not only spread out, but it’s still spreading.  Those words are still in the future tense.  God is spreading and science tells us that the universe is today, it is spreading.  Now we know how scientists figured that out, but how did the writers of the scriptures know that?  How could they look up at the starry skies at night and say looks to me like it’s spreading out, at millions of miles an hour?  There is no perception of movement at all, except as the earth twists.

So what God created was, everything that was necessary for what He was going to make.  He did not create the heavens and the earth in six days, as this person says it tells us it says in Exodus.  It does not. 

In Genesis it says, “in the beginning God created,“ the word is bara and it means to bring in something new, something really new.  In Exodus 20, it says “for in six days God made…”  First of all, even the translators knew not to put create.  They put “created” in Genesis 1:1, but not in Exodus 20:11.  Why didn’t they put, for in six days God created the heavens and the earth.  Because He didn’t do that in six days.  Then what did He do in six days?  He “made” the heavens and the earth.  What’s the difference?  All the difference in the world. 

In Genesis 1:1, He brought into existence everything that exists in the universe. From day one through day six He formed all of that into everything as we now see it in the universe.  Two totally different operations.  Totally, totally different, they are not synonymous. 

The word bara (created) and the word asah (made) are two different words and they mean two different things.  In the beginning He created it all, it was all there.  But it wasn’t until certain things transpired before He began His work of asah.

We reach something very interesting.

Gen 2:3  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested (just means He stopped) from all His work which God created and made.

Now that is a horrible translation there. The “created” and “made” are okay, but not the word “and.”  There is no word “and” in the Hebrew there.  …which God created that’s bara, and the word “made” is asah.  God blessed all which God created, it should be ‘to’ or ‘for.’  That word should always be translated to or for, not ‘and.’  All that God created to make or if you wanted to say that He created for making.  You would never learn that in a million years reading the King James Bible.

He did two things in Chapter one.  He created the universe and then ‘for’ six days, not for in six days. That word ‘in’ is not in Exodus 20:11, for in six days.  No, for six days(.)  Not for in six days.  For six days then He did something else, okay.  What did He do?  He made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that in them is.

Exo 20:11  For six days the LORD made heaven and the earth and the sea and all that in them is…

Are you seeing it?  In a sense, in Genesis 1:1 He made all the raw materials of the heavens and the earth.  In the six creation periods He fashioned it - molded it - built it.  Verses 1 and 2 have absolutely nothing to do with that happens in verses 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and so on.



Marques

[aqrinc]

Hi Edward,

Nice big question for the second post, see how different translations read. Take into account,
read all the words, Ray makes that point over and over in his teaching.

Gen 1:26 (CLV)
And saying is the Elohim, "Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness, and sway shall they over the fish of the sea, and over the flyer of the heavens, and over the beast, and over all land life, and over every moving animal moving on the land.

Gen 1:27 (CLV)
And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.

Gen 1:26  (CEV)
God said, "Now we will make humans, and they will be like us. We will let them rule the fish, the birds, and all other living creatures."

Gen 1:27  (CEV)
So God created humans to be like himself; he made men and women.

Gen 1:26 (YLT)
And God saith, `Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that is creeping on the earth.'

Gen 1:27  (YLT)
And God prepareth the man in His image; in the image of God He prepared him, a male and a female He prepared them.

They all seem to say the same thing on first read, not so when you read all the words.

Here is an older thread http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=8198.msg66200#msg66200

Excerpt from Rays Teaching on this subject.

http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html

NOT YET IN THE IMAGE OF GOD

Most of Christendom have been taught and believe that God created (past tense) man in the very "image of God." Oh really?

So if we want to see what the "image of God" really looks like, all we have to do is look at the vast sea of evil, sinning humanity? Or maybe you believe like many that Adam and Eve WERE (past tense) in the absolute, very IMAGE of God when they were created, but then lost that "image" when they sinned?

Few indeed realize that being made into the image of God is much the same as being saved—IT IS AN ONGOING PROCESS!

Check all the verses in the original: "now saving," "to save," "shall save," "might save," "are being saved," etc. "For by grave ARE ye saved through faith…" tells us HOW we are being saved, not WHEN (Eph. 2:08). Verses such as I Cor. 1:18 in the King James, "…but unto us which ARE saved it is the power of God," is not a faithful rendering of the Greek. Check an interlinear. The words are thus: "…to-THE YET ones-beING-SAVED US…" Yes, often the original manuscripts have only endings and not the complete word, as in "ING." It clearly shows and uncompleted action.

Creating man in God’s image:

King James Version: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness… So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; make and female created He them" (Gen. 1:26a & 27).

Concordant Version: "And saying is the Alueim [Hebrew: elohiym, gods or used of the supreme God--plural of elowahh, a deity or the Deity], Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness… And creating is the Alueim humanity in His image. In the Image of the Alueim He creates it. Male and female He creates them" (Gen. 1:26a & 27).

So we see here the same thing we have already discussed with regards to the Greek aorist tense of verbs, as in "For God so lovED the world" versus "For thus God lovES the world." God’s love for the world CONTINUES! And creating man in God’s image also CONTINUES!

Lustful, carnal-minded, sinning, Adam and Eve were no more in the complete image of God at their physical creation than the Apostles were completely converted during the schooling under Christ’s teaching. It is all an ongoing process. We are even still being converted, and still being perfected, and still becoming more and more like God. How often I have heard preachers remark how Adam and Eve where in the very IMAGE OF GOD. THE TRUE IMAGE OF GOD DOES NOT SIN!

"For whom He did foreknow He also did predestinate TO BE conformed to the image of His Son…" (Rom. 8:29).

"And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we SHALL also bear the image of the heavenly" (I Cor. 15:49).

Presently, only Jesus Christ is the true "Image of God" (II Cor. 4:4).


george.

[edpro.pits@yahoo.com]

Thank you guy's for your input.

I did listen to Ray's audio of 08 conference and that is where I got the idea of created first and then formed. I just never noticed that the two word's were different. What I observe is that first God declares his plan to make man in to his image and then God created  (creating) man in his image.

Now does any one know of any technical explanation on the proper translation that states that God is (creating) rather than (created)? Because when I look at Strong's definitions it gives me created as in the past tense.

Thanks in advance.

Edward
 

[aqrinc]

Hi Edward,

If you are using e-sword, use the dictionary function. Specify Fausset, then do a search for creation.
A ton of information is there, be prepared for some reading.

Here is an excerpt from that search:

Creation

Science and revelation being from the same God cannot be mutually opposed. But either, or both, may be misinterpreted; and there have been as many false interpretations of the book of nature as of revelation. As the Copernican theory was ultimately found not to militate against, but to harmonize with, Scripture, when the language of the latter was better understood; so no real scientific discovery ever since has been found adverse to full belief in revelation, when the latter has been better understood. The full knowledge of both has ever advanced side by side. The Bible, having not scientific but religious truth for its object, speaks in phenomenal language, which in part even the scientific have to do, as in the phrases sunrise and sunset. Creation, in the strict sense of the first origination of being out of nothing, does not come within the scope of science.

It is by the Bible alone, and through faith we understand that the worlds were framed (fitly formed) by the word of God, so that not (as, from the analogy of things reproduced from previously existing and visible materials, one naturally would suppose) out of things which appear hath that which is seen been made" (Heb_11:3). No human being was witness of creation (Job_38:4). Geology traces ages ascending backward, marked by animal and vegetable existence, less and less highly organized the further back we go; but at last comes to a point beyond which it has no light, and I must fall back on revelation and faith for information.

"In the beginning God created" the world, "the heaven and the earth" (Gen_1:1): "In the beginning the Word WAS" (Joh_1:1). Bara', "created," used of creating (1) the universe; (2) the sea monsters whose vastness causes amazement at God's power; (3) man, in the image of God (Gen_1:27).
Everywhere else God "makes" ('asah), as from an already created material, the firmament, sun and stars, and the brute (Gen_1:7; Gen_1:16; Gen_1:25), or "forms" (yaatsar) beasts out of the ground (Gen_2:19), and "builds up" (Gen_2:22 margin) the woman of the rib from man. The three verbs occur together (Isa_43:7). Bara' is confined to GOD's acts; the other two verbs are used also of man's acts.

george.

[edpro.pits@yahoo.com]

Thank's everyone.