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[kenny]

 who are the chosen /elect

i have asked this queastion for years now and this fourm is the only place that can handle that queastion, it already has, 43 pages of elect postPages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43
, 41 pages of chosen postsPages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41
i have looked at quite a few of these, not all (yet) now i have a new queastion

WHY ARE WE THE CHOSEN/ELECT
 

[mharrell08]

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2059.msg16747.html#msg16747):

Dear Kelly:
Those whom God has foreordained to be the elect will always be the elect. The chosen elect cannot be lost.  But you and I do not know exactly who is and who isn't an elect. Only God's knows those who are His, and therefore, we can never let down our guard, because we might only think that we are elect.  I have seen and witnessed this with my own eyes where those who appeared to be elect, turned and now blaspheme the name of the Saviour they claimed to worship a short while back.
Sorry, don't know of any books that you can read on this subject.
God be with you,
Ray


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7931.msg63372.html#msg63372):

Dear Sara:  We need to be careful about assuming the meaning of words, and then changing them to different words.  The Scriptures say that God is no "respecter of persons."  And Strong define this as "partiality," and you then change it to "favoritism."  But aren't they all one and the same? No, there are similarities, the they are different. Surely God does not respect a one person over another because of some inherent goodness of one over the other. But that does not mean that He does not "favor" one over the other, He does. "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."   Where there something about the person of Jacob that God liked better than Esau?  No, God made that decision BEFORE THEY WERE BORN.
     
    And so God does show favor or favoritism, but it is not based on "partiality" or "respecting of persons."  God's "Elect" are the ones He has "favored," and that is how Strong defines "elect."  So God chooses and blesses different people at different times according to His purpose, but none of it is based on any "respect" that God has toward one person over another.
     
    God be with you,
    Ray


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,93.msg309.html#msg309):

Dear Doug:

The chosen, few, elect, overcomes in this church age are promised "eonian" life with Christ during the oncoming eons.  The rest of humanity will NOT be given rulership in the Kngdom of God during the eons or ever. That's the difference.

God be with you,

Ray


Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1529.msg12918.html#msg12918):

Dear Laura:
The "Kingdom of God" is the kingdom that will rule the nations under the Kingship of Jesus Christ, composed of lesser kings, lords, priests, and judges.  These kings, lords, priests, and judges, are composed of the ranks of God's Chosen Elect Saints.
 
Only those worthy of the First resurrection from the death will ever rule with Christ in the Kingdom of God. Those who are judged, purified and saved in the Great White Throne Judgment will be in God's family, but they will never be rulers with Christ.
 
And don't ask any more detailed questions on this, because it would take hours to answer you, and I just don't have the time. Much of this material is already covered in my Lake of Fire series. Hope you understand.
God be with you,
Ray


Marques

[Akira329]

Hey Kenny,
I don't quite understand your question?
Are you asking forum members why they are the chosen/elect or are you asking why does there have to be a chosen/elect?

As for the first part, I know no one has ever claimed to be chosen/elect because how could they know unless they died and was resurrected to immortality in their new glorious spiritual body. I don't know anyone who has achieved this state of being except for Christ.

As for the second part, sounds like a good question.
Definitely don't want to short change you an answer.
You should keep reading more particularly the lake of fire series seeing as the lake of fire has a lot to do with the elect of God.

Antaiwan  


 

[Marky Mark]

who are the chosen /elect

i have asked this queastion for years now and this fourm is the only place that can handle that queastion, it already has, 43 pages of elect postPages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43
, 41 pages of chosen postsPages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41
i have looked at quite a few of these, not all (yet) now i have a new queastion

WHY ARE WE THE CHOSEN/ELECT

 

That sounds like a loaded question,no one on the face of the earth can answer that(no one knows the who) .

As to why our Father has seen fit to select a group of the few chosen out of the many called, well, I would have to think that it is because He has a plan and that His plan involves His chosen elect  .


Peace...Mark

[Kat]

Hi Kenny,

I think when your eyes have been opened to this truth, you have to know that.  So few in the church ever have their eyes opened and can see the deceptions there.  But that is just the first step, as in the parable of the sower, so very few continue on to produce fruit.  Only God knows who is His and will be among those very few Elected to endure to the end.  Whoever those Elect are they can not be lost, as they have been chosen from the foundation of the world.

Eph 1:4  just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

John 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28  And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
v. 29  My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
v. 30  I and My Father are one."

I love these verses in John, it gives me hope that IF I am one of the few then it is not up to my own pitiful efforts, He will make sure I make it.

Here is a excerpt form 'What Happened to the Church Jesus Built?' article no. 8.

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html -------------------

THE "CALLED" AND THE "NOT CALLED"

"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many [some, but not many] wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

But God has chosen the foolish things [many translations do not insert the word "things" in these verses] of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And the base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yes, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: that no flesh should glory in His presence" (I Cor. 1:26-29).

So we see that God calls MOSTLY those who are: weak, base, despised, nothings! Are we to believe that God is going to build a SPIRITUAL ARMY of Sons and Daughters by which He will conquer and SAVE THE WORLD?

Hard to believe, isn’t it? I think we can all agree that there is a great deal of work to be done with and to these "nothings of the world" whom God is calling to such a formidable, once-in-an-eternity task!

But of the "many called," we are told, "few are chosen" (Matt. 20:16). Why is that? God has intended it to be such. We are given the parable of the "sower of seed" where much of the seed fell by the side of the tilled soil, and the birds ate it; some had no depth and withered in the sun; still more fell among thorns and were chocked, but some fell upon good soil and produced much fruit. Many seed are sown, but few seed produce good fruit. "Seed" we see everywhere in the Church; "fruit" of God’s spirit is more rare. These few have the added designation of:

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).

These are the "very elect" who cannot be deceived any longer
-------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[kenny]

Marques
thanks for the links and i do understand that the detailed answer would take hours(i have spent hours/days,months) on it before i came to this forum and had to go back and look at all my notes and then compare them with what i am learning here. it is really cool and not to mention hearing about and finding the CLV.

Antaiwan
there is no short change on this forum and you can bet one thing for sure i have rea the lof seireies and many others and will read them again for there is so muc to glean from them and only a short time left

Mark
it was loaded and i promise i will not load another one i will just drop the bomb

Kat
that was beautiful and you nailed it
These are the "very elect" who cannot be deceived any longer
i will just add this
 Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

[Marky Mark]

Hi Kenny,

I think when your eyes have been opened to this truth, you have to know that you have been 'chosen.' 
Kat

Kat,
   Are you saying that if a person is aware of the Truths of God that they are automatically chosen to be one of the few chosen/elect?

   I understand the rest of the answer that you gave Kenny,but this opening sentence has me a little baffled.


Peace...Mark

[mharrell08]

Hi Kenny,

I think when your eyes have been opened to this truth, you have to know that you have been 'chosen.' 
Kat

Kat,
   Are you saying that if a person is aware of the Truths of God that they are automatically chosen to be one of the few chosen/elect?

   I understand the rest of the answer that you gave Kenny,but this opening sentence has me a little baffled.


Peace...Mark

Hello Mark,

I'm sure Kat can answer for herself, but I just thought this could help:

One is chosen or 'elected' out of Babylon but that does not mean it's a done deal. It is, as we all know, those who 'endure to the end' or as the scriptures state '...they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful' [Rev 17:14].

But yes, those who are drawn to Christ and chosen by Him [John 6:44 & 15:16] are considered 'chosen' though they must remain 'faithful' until the end to be in the 1st Resurrection.

Even Ray has stated in letters to the forum (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9324.msg78481.html#msg78481), 'Dear Forum and Elect of God', but that does not mean he or anyone else knows, for sure, that they are in the 1st Resurrection but he and others can tell who God has chosen to share His doctrine with. That's all


Hope that helps,

Marques

[aqrinc]

Just my 2 cents, no one is assured of being The Elect; Unless they persevere to The End.

Mar 13:13  
Everyone will hate you because of me. But whoever holds out to the end will be saved.

Heb 6:11  
Our great desire is that each of you keep up your eagerness to the end, so that the things you hope for will come true.

Rev 2:26  
To those who win the victory, who continue to the end to do what I want, I will give the same authority that I received from my Father: I will give them authority over the nations, to rule them with an iron rod and to break them to pieces like clay pots. I will also give them the morning star.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

Excerpt from: How Hard is Getting Saved? . . . . . . Nashville Conference 2005

So you have a scripture that says, “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, (Acts 2:21)” And that’s true. But you have to know what it means. And Christians will pick out a verse like that and say, “This is all you have to do…” They find the scripture with the lowest common denominator, with the least amount to do, and if it says that will save you than they say, “That’s it, that’s the one I want!” You see, they want that simple one.

But then in Acts 6:31, it says “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.”

Well which is it? CALL upon the name of the Lord, or BELIEVE in Jesus Christ….and then you’ll be saved.

Well then in Mark 16:16, it says, “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.”

Well, now we are getting down to it…(counts off on his fingers): You call upon the name of the Lord, you believe on the name of the Lord, you’re baptized and then…..?? You’ll be saved, right?  Well, that is if there were no more scriptures.

But then we have a scripture in John 10:9 that says, “I am the door, by Me if any man enter he shall be saved.”  Well what if you don’t enter by the door? If Christ is the door and you have to enter in at the door to be saved, if you don’t enter in at the door can you be saved? Well, I wouldn’t think so.

And then we have in Ephesians 2:8, “For by grace, are you saved, through faith”

Now let me see if I’ve got this straight:
1. believe on the name of the Lord
2. call on the name of the Lord
3. be baptized
4. enter in at the door of Christ
5. and then by grace
6. through faith

…….and then I will be saved. Right? Wrong Paleface, because there’s more!

1 Cor 1:21, “It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe”

So now I’ve got to:
1. believe on the name of the Lord
2. call on the name of the Lord
3. be baptized
4. enter in at the door of Christ
5. and then by grace
6. through faith
7. and now I’ve got to listen to the foolishness of Ray Smith before I can be saved???

I mean, is he serious? It PLEASED God, it isn’t that He allows it, that it’s like the lowest form of getting saved. No, it PLEASES God to save those that believe by the foolishness of people like me. The FOOLISHNESS, not the great wisdom…..the foolishness of preaching will save you!

george.

[Kat]

Thanks Marques and George you both have explained it so well.  Just a few Scritures to add to it.

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).

The church believes they are the chosen.  But they are the "called," they are still blind to the truth.  The "chosen" are those that come out of the church, because your eyes are opened, but those He has chosen will also be "faithful" to the end.

God knows whom are the Elect. He shows them their first love of Christ in the church.  He at some point chooses to drags them out of the church and by Christ indwelling they will endure to the end.  So only God knows who these Elect are that He will assure to be "faithful" to the end.

None of us know if we are the Elect and will make it, God does.  Only the one that stays in the race to the end will be in the first resurrection.  If we fall by the wayside at any point we are not, nor ever were the Elect.

1Co 9:24  Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.

Even though it all depends on God, we can not let up, we must "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Php 2:12).  Paul warns us so much about being complacent and getting caught up in the cares of this world, because of what can happen.

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
v. 5  and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
v. 6  if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Hope this addition helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[mharrell08]

   I think the confusion may lie with how one defines the word elect.It would seem that just because one may be chosen that it does not imply that that same person can now be called the elect.Can elect and few chosen be interchanged? There lies the confusion ,with me at least.

Col 3:12  Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1 Thess 1:3-4  Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.


Paul seemed to use them interchangeably, so I do the same, personally. Obviously, if these saints of Colossians and Thessalonians did not endure to the end, they will not be in the 1st Resurrection. But at this moment, they were on the path and Paul told them as much.

Notice also what Peter says:

2 Pet 1:10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Again, these saints are on the narrow path that leads to eonian life, but they must be diligent in making their election sure. And the Lord does this in the lives of His elect as they will not be deceived [Matt 24:24].

Like Ray, I would have no qualms about saying that those chosen out of the church are 'chosen' and 'elect(ed)' by God...as they did not choose Christ on their own, He chose them. But I would not be saying that, for sure, they would be in the 1st Resurrection as how could one know who endures 'til the end until the end actually comes.

Just the name itself is humbling...Elect(ed). No one decides...they must be elected or chosen by God...and even then, they won't know for sure until the end. 

Hope this helps,

Marques

[aqrinc]

Hi Mark,

The three Scriptures i previously quoted are like so many more that show it. We must
finish the race, endure to the end, persevere even to the end to Get a Crown of life.

Mar 13:13 
Everyone will hate you because of me. But whoever holds out to the end will be saved.

Heb 6:11 
Our great desire is that each of you keep up your eagerness to the end, so that the things you hope for will come true.

Rev 2:26 
To those who win the victory, who continue to the end to do what I want, I will give the same authority that I received from my Father: I will give them authority over the nations, to rule them with an iron rod and to break them to pieces like clay pots. I will also give them the morning star.

george

[daywalker]

WHY ARE WE THE CHOSEN/ELECT
 
[/quote]


Hey Kenny,

IF you are a Chosen/Elect, it's only because:


John 15:16:
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you,...

But don't ever let yourself become haughty, yet remain humble, because...

II Timothy 2:19:
... ‘The LORD knows those who are His,' ...

You don't know. I don't know. Only GOD KNOWS. We only know what we know right now... We don't even know what will happen tomorrow [or even in the next hour, for that matter...].


Hope this answers your question, friend.

- Daywalker.

[kenny]

Daywalker

my freind your advice and scipture is well recieved and i have been reading your post's and i think i love you my freind (as a brother that is).

i have been trying to share many of the things that are posted here on the BT with many people in the building churches only to be rejected, told that i need to go back and read that again because thats not what that says, you don't know what your talking about and would you please find another church to fellowship with you don't fit in here.

then my freind roy sent me a web site that he got some stuff from that we had been talking about and low and behold my first post was not rejected, i was led to scipture that backs up what i posted and given more scipture on top of that, then affirmed in so many of my studies from RAY, (THANK YOU JESUS FOR TRUE MEN OF GOD) and the BT gang, that i feel like i am fixen to explode.

THIS VIRTUAL CHURCH IS OF GOD, ABOUT GOD AND ABOUT THE TRUTH.

i read the other day where ray and dennis were talking and ray told dennis that he guessed it was time to take the kid gloves off.

i think he did

 

[Dennis Vogel]

Kathy said:

I think when your eyes have been opened to this truth, you have to know that you have been 'chosen.'

We need to be careful about using the word 'chosen.'

You can be 'blessed' to understand many truths, but that does not mean you are indeed one of the chosen.

[Kat]

Thanks Dennis, okay now I see how the chosen and elect are interchangable or one in the same.  

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[daywalker]

Hey Kenny,

Yea, I thought about going back to my old church, and trying to share these Truths I've learned, but why bother? They won't receive it. I'll just be "spit on" and "cast out" of their "den of thieves".

I've shared many things with my Mom [and a few friends], and she's been very receptive of what I've had to say. Funny, she told me she never really believed in Eternal Damnation anyways. She always felt that Jesus would find a way to save everyone. Now, she knows her feelings were accurate. But she still goes to her Babylonian Church. She says she goes for the fellowship... being a Single Mother of two, she gets lonely, and the fellowship with her friends there, fills that void she lacks from not having a [physical] Significant Other.

I can understand her feelings, so I try not to push her too hard, if God wants her out, she'll come out. But what's real awesome is we started this 'experiment' a few weeks ago, that has so far been amazing and fun: she makes sure to take good notes from the Sermon, and then emails them to me after Church. Then I go over them, and send her back a "rebuttal". At first, i wasn't sure how well it would go, but so far, it's been much easier than I thought...

It's always based on the same false doctrine: human free will. The Sermon is always targeted at telling people what they are doing wrong, what they can do to change themselves, how they can shine in front of people, and how to share their beliefs with others. But he denies the simple Bible Truth that it is God who "works in you" to do all these things, that He Alone can give us the strength and ability to obey His Commandments, and that without Him we "can do nothing".

And so far, my mom is seeing this, much more clearly. She'll hear the Pastor speak, see his 'supporting' verses. But then, when I send her back my rebuttal, she says, "Wow! You're right. He is wrong." 


It's been fun, kinda like having an "inside man" feeding me the Enemy's Information, so I can analyze and decode it. 

- Daywalker.

Daywalker

my freind your advice and scipture is well recieved and i have been reading your post's and i think i love you my freind (as a brother that is).

i have been trying to share many of the things that are posted here on the BT with many people in the building churches only to be rejected, told that i need to go back and read that again because thats not what that says, you don't know what your talking about and would you please find another church to fellowship with you don't fit in here.

then my freind roy sent me a web site that he got some stuff from that we had been talking about and low and behold my first post was not rejected, i was led to scipture that backs up what i posted and given more scipture on top of that, then affirmed in so many of my studies from RAY, (THANK YOU JESUS FOR TRUE MEN OF GOD) and the BT gang, that i feel like i am fixen to explode.

THIS VIRTUAL CHURCH IS OF GOD, ABOUT GOD AND ABOUT THE TRUTH.

i read the other day where ray and dennis were talking and ray told dennis that he guessed it was time to take the kid gloves off.

i think he did