> General Discussions
My God, My God, why have you forsaken me??
Mando:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on March 18, 2009, 10:59:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: Mando on March 18, 2009, 10:58:17 PM ---It's seems that for the first time Jesus felt seperated from His Father. God had to look away from sin, hence, even the grave couldn't hold Jesus down!
Mando
--- End quote ---
Eh, i don't think thats scriptural. Honostly. I don't know wether God had to look away or what Jesus was feeling.. but good question. I've heard only the church's answer to this. I wonder what ray has to say about this. If he has?
--- End quote ---
obviously Jesus felt "forsaken" or else He wouldn't of said "why has thou forsaken Me" and God must of "forsaken" Him since Jesus said "why has thou forsaken Me".
Mando
Ocean:
Jesus felt 'forsaken' because God's will had to be done to save you/me/mankind. I read that Jesus even asked [God] three times 'for the cup to pass' from him but yet not his will but God's will be done. God's will is that none [mankind] will perish so Jesus had to be the sinless lamb/son/sacrifice on our behalf. That is testament that God loves all his creation....believers and non-believers
That is why noone can come to the Father except through Jesus.
;D ;D
Liz
Mando:
--- Quote from: Ocean on March 19, 2009, 12:10:47 AM ---Jesus felt 'forsaken' because God's will had to be done to save you/me/mankind. I read that Jesus even asked [God] three times 'for the cup to pass' from him but yet not his will but God's will be done. God's will is that none [mankind] will perish so Jesus had to be the sinless lamb/son/sacrifice on our behalf. That is testament that God loves all his creation....believers and non-believers
That is why noone can come to the Father except through Jesus.
;D ;D
Liz
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Amen Ocean. Hebrews 5:7-10 reads like this-> Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; called of God an high priest after the order of Meschisedec.
Vangie:
Welcome Ocean and Mando!
Hey Darren,
This thread from last month shows some scriptural answers as well as a link to Ray's writings on the verse you ask about.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9365.0.html
mharrell08:
Hello Mando & Ocean,
Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2775.0.html):
No, David, neither do I believe that God "turned HIs back on His only Son."
There are those who teach it, however. Jesus quoted the first few words found
is Psalm 22 which goes on to describe just Who the Messiah was to be and the
purpose for Him being crucified.
God be with you,
Ray
Jesus did not 'feel forsaken' nor had 'the wrath of God' on Him nor had a greater desire to have the cup pass from Him or any other unscriptural belief.
Here is an excerpt from Beloved from this same thread that Vangie referenced (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9365.0.html):
--- Quote from: Beloved on February 13, 2009, 09:15:08 AM ---Jesus quoted Psalm 22 and pointed to himself. They did not understand then or now and thought he was calling Elijah or had "become sin", The one thief, was the only one who saw at least that he deserved death.
These folks knew this pslam well and should have understood the reference.
(Psa 22:) To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
(Psa 22:7 KJVR) All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
(Psa 22:8 KJVR) He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
(Psa 22:14 KJVR) I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
(Psa 22:15 KJVR) My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
(Psa 22:16 KJVR) For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
(Psa 22:17 KJVR) I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
(Psa 22:18 KJVR) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.(Psa 22:19 KJVR) But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
(Psa 22:22 KJVR) I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
(Psa 22:23 KJVR) Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
The intent of the word of Jesus is very clear
(Psa 22:24 KJVR) For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
(Psa 22:25 KJVR) My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
(Psa 22:26 KJVR) The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live forever.
(Psa 22:27 KJVR) All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
(Psa 22:28 KJVR) For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.
(Psa 22:29 KJVR) All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
(Psa 22:30 KJVR) A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
(Psa 22:31 KJVR) They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.
Remembering the rest of the verse must have comforted Jesus. He always knew his purpose and this cry was not a call for help. Imagine how the apostles must have meditated on these lines...after the Resurrection after they remembered what He had said to them
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
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Also from Ray's paper on '12 God-Given Truths to Understanding His Word' [truth #4] (http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm):
Jesus did not fulfill the sacrificed sin offering only. Jesus was not merely one offering, but the many offerings, burnt offerings, the meat offering, the peace offerings, the trespass offering, and the sin offering. Jesus also prefigured the priest doing the offering, the meaning of each offering, the compartments and furniture of the tabernacle, the bread, the candles, the curtain, the ark of the covenant, the tabernacle itself, and the whole nation of Israel—Jesus prefigures all and FULFILLED ALL.
No one could comprehend every verse in the Old Testament Scriptures that represented Jesus, but they could learn the PRINCIPLE by which Jesus fulfilled all the law and all the prophets. And that is how the apostles and the two disciples on the road to Emmaus had their understanding of the Scriptures opened in just a very short time. When the Scriptures speak of Israel they speak of Jesus, and when they speak of Jesus they speak of us, for "…as Jesus is, so are we in the world" (I John 4:17).
I'm not trying to get on either of you guy's case, but it is better to nip these kinds of things in the bud than let fester into all kinds of unscriptural jargon. Hope you understand and take the time to read this past thread as well as Ray's paper on 12 truths and audio on 'Was Christ made Sin?'
Hope this helps,
Marques
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