Satan or his name... which is more evil?

[TheRysta]

Something which has caught my attention recently.

I've been listening to too many overly religious nuts who claim that the devil is around each and every corner, and that EVERY OTHER belief system besides their own is of a demonic power.

Then you have the Arab muslims calling America 'The Great Satan'.

I think that the name of Satan causes a heck of a lot of evil in the world. Once you call the opposition 'The Devil', you can no longer come to an agreement. Because once you play this card, the enemy is the devil. And you cannot make agreements with the enemy, because you cannot make agreements with the devil. This leads to more bloodshed than is necessary.

Fear as well. I think we can all relate to how many Christians use fear to oppress the masses. I always thought it was funny how sloth and anger are labelled as deadly sins, but not fear. Surely, if SLOTH can be a sin, then why not fear? Fear is just anger in defensive, but it's almost the same mechanism in the brain.

Perhaps the devil decieved no-one, and it is people's mindless name-calling and fear mongering which is the TRUE Satan.

Is the whole 'demonic influence' thing a lie to cover up the real enemy? It makes me pretty paranoid.

- Ryan

[Marky Mark]

Something which has caught my attention recently.

I've been listening to too many overly religious nuts who claim that the devil is around each and every corner, and that EVERY OTHER belief system besides their own is of a demonic power.

Then you have the Arab muslims calling America 'The Great Satan'.

I think that the name of Satan causes a heck of a lot of evil in the world. Once you call the opposition 'The Devil', you can no longer come to an agreement. Because once you play this card, the enemy is the devil. And you cannot make agreements with the enemy, because you cannot make agreements with the devil. This leads to more bloodshed than is necessary.

Fear as well. I think we can all relate to how many Christians use fear to oppress the masses. I always thought it was funny how sloth and anger are labelled as deadly sins, but not fear. Surely, if SLOTH can be a sin, then why not fear? Fear is just anger in defensive, but it's almost the same mechanism in the brain.

Perhaps the devil decieved no-one, and it is people's mindless name-calling and fear mongering which is the TRUE Satan.

Is the whole 'demonic influence' thing a lie to cover up the real enemy? It makes me pretty paranoid.

- Ryan

Perhaps the devil decieved no-one, and it is people's mindless name-calling and fear mongering which is the TRUE Satan.

Is the whole 'demonic influence' thing a lie to cover up the real enemy? It makes me pretty paranoid.

- Ryan

Email to Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6300.0.html

Dear Ray, On the subject of satan and who or what he is or isn't, I have this suspicion that WE, OUR, carnal mind or our twisted intellect is [MAYBE] this thing called satan. Are we not our own worst enemy? Isn't our evil thoughts our own? I have pondered this for a long time, please take a look at it and tell me what you think. Thank you! God bless you! Mark


       Dear Mark:  Was it "the carnal mind" that presented itself to God in the opening chapters of Job?  Did Jesus tells HIS OWN "CARNAL MIND" to "get behind Me, SATAN?" (Luke 4:?  Did Jesus have a "carnal mind?" A "satan" within Him?  Is God going to chain the "carnal mind" in the abyss for a thousand years (Rev. 20:1-2)?  Is He then going to release  the "carnal mind" for a little season?

       I await your reply.

       God be with you,

       Ray

Peace...mark

Read this to widen your unscriptural perspective.

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

[Kat]

Hi Ryan,

You really need 'something' as a base of knowledge that you can depend on, instead of "many overly religious nuts" that you have listened to.  What I'm referring to is the Scriptures of course.  Ray has done a lot of pains taken work to show us what is in the 'original' Scripture text, opposed to what is in some of the Bible translations.  This article 'Twelve Truths to Understanding His Word' at this link http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm is a good primer to get you started.  Getting e-Sword on your computer would be a great help too, here is the link to download it free http://www.e-sword.net/index.html

Now concerning Satan, he is a real being, but he is spirit, therefore invisible to humans.  He is God's and our adversary.

1Peter 5:8  Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

He was brought into being for a specific purpose and that is to deceive.

Rev 12:9  So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Here are a few emails concerning Satan.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6904.0.html ----

 Ray,
       Who is the Devil; is he out there?where?  I hear a many teachers speaking of the devil 'out-there' can you please tell me where is 'out-there'...?
       Thank you....
       

"Out there" is up and down in the earth:

       Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

       Satan was with Christ in the wilderness. Satan was influencing Peter. Satan entered Judas, and he is "like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour" (I Pet. 5:.

       God be with you,
       Ray


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4015.msg30815.html#msg30815 ---

While it is true that often (not always, especially in the Greek Scriptures) the article is found before the noun, that does not of itself prove that it is a common noun. Sometimes we find the article in front of the word "God."--The God.  I will not argue that there are times that "adversary" may not deserve a capital letter, but then again, not always.
    Just who was "the" Adversary/Accuser who came before God in the book of Job? Was it just a generic common noun that came and SPOKE to God regarding Job. Did Jesus tell a common noun to "Get thee behind Me?"  Is God going to symbolically chain a common noun for a thousand years in Rev. 20:1-3? Etc.

    God be with you,
    Ray


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4681.0.html -----------

The JW's have little more truth than the rest of Babylon. Not only does God have authority over Satan, but so do WE:

GOD:  "And the Lord God said unto the serpent ['the great dragon was cast out, that OLD SERPENT, called the Devil and Satan' Rev. 12:9], Because you have done this, YOU ARE CURSED...." (Gen. 3:14). Sounds like God is in full control of Satan.

GOD:  "And the Lord said unto Satan, behold, He is in your hand, BUT SAVE HIS LIFE"  (Job 2:6). Satan can do no more than God permits him to do.

JESUS:  "Then said Jesus unto him, GET THEE HENCE SATAN...then Devil LEAVES HIM" (Matt. 4:10-11).  Jesus had completely and total control over Satan.

BELIEVERS:  "Submit yourselves therefore to God, Resist the Devil, AND HE WILL FLEE [Gk: 'run away, vanish']FROM YOU" (James 4:7).

"And the Devil that deceived them WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE and brimstone..." (Rev. 20:16).

God be with you,

Ray

[Amrhrasach]

Something which has caught my attention recently.

I've been listening to too many overly religious nuts who claim that the devil is around each and every corner, and that EVERY OTHER belief system besides their own is of a demonic power.

Then you have the Arab muslims calling America 'The Great Satan'.

I think that the name of Satan causes a heck of a lot of evil in the world. Once you call the opposition 'The Devil', you can no longer come to an agreement. Because once you play this card, the enemy is the devil. And you cannot make agreements with the enemy, because you cannot make agreements with the devil. This leads to more bloodshed than is necessary.

Fear as well. I think we can all relate to how many Christians use fear to oppress the masses. I always thought it was funny how sloth and anger are labelled as deadly sins, but not fear. Surely, if SLOTH can be a sin, then why not fear? Fear is just anger in defensive, but it's almost the same mechanism in the brain.

Perhaps the devil decieved no-one, and it is people's mindless name-calling and fear mongering which is the TRUE Satan.

Is the whole 'demonic influence' thing a lie to cover up the real enemy? It makes me pretty paranoid.

- Ryan

Hi Ryan,

If you convince yourself that the "overly religious nuts" are speaking full truth in the matter

("2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.")

then paranoia will set in and you may even convince yourself "perhaps the devil deceived no-one".

But is that true?  Not according to scripture.    

("Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.")

As for the "devil being around each and every corner",

("Job 2:2  And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.")

Has anything changed?  No. 

As for "that EVERY OTHER belief system besides their own is of a demonic power", ..........who states the truth?

("Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ")

Is "demonic influence" a lie or cover up?  I don't think so, I think it's PART OF the real enemy and strategy.

Sorry if I've overlapped anyone else's comments.

Gary

[aqrinc]

Hi Ryan,

1. Establish this first; GOD IS NOT A MAN; HE DOES NOT LIE

Num 23:19  (GW)
God is not like people, who lie; He is not a human who changes his mind. Whatever he promises, he does; He speaks, and it is done.

2. GOD Was Dealing with a real Satan; HE (GOD) told the rel Satan to be silent.

Zec 3: 1-2 (GW)
1  Then he showed me Joshua, the chief priest, standing in front of the Messenger of the LORD. Satan the Accuser was standing at Joshua's right side to accuse him.
2  The LORD said to Satan, "I, the LORD, silence you, Satan! I, the LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, silence you! Isn't this man like a burning log snatched from a fire?"

3. Here we are warned to be aware that the devil (Satan) is on the prowl.

1Pe 5:8 (GW)
Keep your mind clear, and be alert. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion as he looks for someone to devour.

Try reading some Scripture and find out what it is for yourself rather than being told by others. If you would be wise, study the subject that you wish to talk about from the source material.

george.

[TheRysta]

Okay, I was generalising a bit too much. I did not mean to say that Satan does not exist, but I see now how it looked that way.

I shouldn't have said, "Satan decieved no-one". First of all I meant 'decieves' and second of all 'no-one' was WAY to general. I was speaking in reference to each seperate religious sect. As far as RELIGIOUS BELIEFS are concerned, do people decieve themselves or does Satan decieve them?

None of this was anyone else's fault... I just made the original message very unclear.

The point I am making is that people pointing the finger at so-called 'Satanic' beliefs is more Satanic than the beliefs supposedly are. It is wrong for people to literally demonize other people's opinions because it always leads to conflict. Jesus also taught when the adulterer was brought to him that only those without fault should throw the first stone. He is warning us not to throw stones; yet many people who proffess that they have absolute certainty in their pride continue to do it.

In short, Satan appears to make more of a killing from this name-calling than he does with these false belief systems.

Does SATAN inspire false doctrine, or do WE?

[mharrell08]

Okay, I was generalising a bit too much. I did not mean to say that Satan does not exist, but I see now how it looked that way.

I shouldn't have said, "Satan decieved no-one". First of all I meant 'decieves' and second of all 'no-one' was WAY to general. I was speaking in reference to each seperate religious sect. As far as RELIGIOUS BELIEFS are concerned, do people decieve themselves or does Satan decieve them?

None of this was anyone else's fault... I just made the original message very unclear.

The point I am making is that people pointing the finger at so-called 'Satanic' beliefs is more Satanic than the beliefs supposedly are. It is wrong for people to literally demonize other people's opinions because it always leads to conflict. Jesus also taught when the adulterer was brought to him that only those without fault should throw the first stone. He is warning us not to throw stones; yet many people who proffess that they have absolute certainty in their pride continue to do it.

In short, Satan appears to make more of a killing from this name-calling than he does with these false belief systems.

Does SATAN inspire false doctrine, or do WE?

Satan

Gen 3:14-15  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

John 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Excerpt from Lake of Fire #10 (http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html):

SATAN DECEIVES THE WHOLE WORLD

    "And the GREAT DRAGON was cast out, that OLD SERPENT, called THE DEVIL, and SATAN [Heb: Adversary], which DECEIVES THE WHOLE WORLD and he was cast out into THE EARTH, and his angels were cast out with him" (Rev. 12:9).

Hardly a person alive would admit to being deceived by Satan the devil, and yet God tells us that Satan, "deceives the WHOLE WORLD." The "whole world." Isn't that just about everybody? Well, who pray tell, are NOT deceived? Answer: "The very elect" (Matt. 24:24). And how many is that? Answer: "Few" (Matt. 20:16). Who are the "Few?" Answer: "He that overcomes" (Rev. 3:21). Overcomes what? Answer: The same thing that Jesus overcame—"the world" (John 16:33). "The World?" Could you be a little more specific? Answer:

    "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is NOT in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is NOT of the Father, but is of the world" (I John 2:15:16).

And so it is that Satan always shows up when it's dinnertime. But Satan is like a voracious lion who seem to never get enough to eat.

When Satan is not walking to and fro up and down in the earth, does he have a home, a throne of power, a seat, a workshop, a business address, a dwelling place? As a matter of fact, he does.

Satan's sphere of influence is not that different than say the president of a great nation such as the United States. Our president's 'throne,' if you will, is located in Washington D.C., although he is at home anywhere in America. But his influence doesn't stop with Americans—he uses the power of our nation anywhere it is needed, as he has recognition, power, and influence all over the world. The same is true of Satan. Satan's throne is at a specific location. From there he resides in a much larger arena of control and domain. And from that grant system of power, he influences the powers of the whole world.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Marky Mark]

Does SATAN inspire false doctrine, or do WE?

Ryan,

  If the Truth of our Father is not in you, then who do you think is,given all the responses given.



Peace...Mark

[musicman]

I always thought it was funny how sloth and anger are labelled as deadly sins, but not fear. Surely, if SLOTH can be a sin, then why not fear? Fear is just anger in defensive

Ryan, if anything, anger is fear in defence.  And If fear isn't a sin then the timid wouldn't have their part in the Lake which burns with fire and brimstone.