Meat / milk

[mharrell08]

The point is knowing where we are, we can then decide to go on past the dead works, into maturity or keep going backwards.

Try this ....

The point is Rodger knowing where he is, Rodger can then decide to go on past the dead works, into maturity or keep going backwards.

The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak...... Faith, Strength, study, feeding in the Meat of the Word of God, etc.... all these free gifts of Grace are all compelling reasons to follow the VOICE into maturity but many who are called out of babylon are not the few chosen.  Only God knows yes, and even still we are URGED to be obedient and immerse ourselves in study and living out the Word of God.  amazing is it not.

We are all the examples ......  but each of us is moved by the SAME SPIRIT into maturity. If we are compelled by the Word of God to choose this path.

Cause and effect bro.....

Praise and Glory allways be to God
Rodger

But like Craig says, we can't will our way off of milk...similar to a babe who is at the mercy of their parent and can only eat/drink what is provided.

Like you stated, the Lord knows who are His chosen and they will not be deceived...one cannot do anything to makes themselves one of the few in the same manner one cannot prevent themselves if that is what the Lord has ordained.

I'm still trying to understand the point of this thread in terms of the benefit for all the members. That is the point in receiving any spiritual knowledge...to help others, not for our own gain.

You started by comparing what it is to be on milk compared to meat...now what? How can members benefit if they do not receive any instruction on how, specifically, they are doing one or the other. For example, take this excerpt from Ray LOF #14 paper (http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html):

Christians claim that their bondage to physical commandments and traditions of men, are really spiritual.

    *      Some make an idol of the heart out of keeping the Saturday Sabbath;
    *      others make an idol of the heart out of claiming they are "tithing" when they give money to the church;
    *      others make an idol of the heart out of physical circumcision;
    *      others make an idol of the heart out of being baptized in the name of Jesus ONLY;
    *      others make an idol of the heart out of believing in the unscriptural teaching of a trinity or rapture,
    *      others make an idol of the heart out of demonic gibberish and tongues speaking;
    *      others make an idol of the heart out of drinking poison and handling poisonous snakes;
    *      others make an idol of the heart out of Christian Politics;
    *      others make an idol of the heart out of their own church affiliation or pastor or choir or a plethora of church activities;
    *      others (many) make an idol of the heart out of some pet, little-understood and little-believed Bible prophecy, which only they understand;
    *      others make an idol of the heart out of much speaking using spiritually-sounding words and phrases (of which they understand little or nothing);
    *      others make an idol of the heart out of joyfully condemning all those who do not subscribe to their brand of Christianity, to an eternal torture in hell fire (I am the brunt of a lot of these);
    *      and others just flat out worship themselves.


Ray has used this term 'idol of the heart' time before, but here, he gives 'specific examples' on how people do that. If he just continued to use that term without actually pointing any kind out, who would have benefited besides himself? That's all I was trying to ask of you.

I'm just seeing Craig's 2nd post in this thread and he pretty much sums up what I am thinking...thanks Craig (and Samson). 


Marques

[mharrell08]

Jesus whom i strife to follow, spoke in parables to which Ray even pointed this out, so that those babes did not know what Jesus was speaking of, but only to the 12 it is MEANT to be known.

I'll be bringing this to the forum for a discussion in the near future but thank you for your response.



Marques

[aqrinc]

Hi Marques and Craig,

Sorry i was away for a few hours, just now read the discussion that has been going on. To your repeated question about my comment:

Heb 6:1-3
1  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,  

2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3  And this will we do, if God permit.

The rest of this chapter goes on to explain exactly what is meant to each individual. Please see that there is no purpose other that to learn and grow in Jesus Christ. We have far too many contentious and heated arguments about learning and expressing ones understanding. Does someone have to just be silent when something more is open to them, this is how we fellowship with each other.

All of us must learn some humility; and stop stamping on anything that is different from our own understanding. The Scriptures Must Be our Only Arbiter of what is of GOD or of man.

1Co 7: 22-24 (WNT)
22  For a Christian, if he was a slave when called, is the Lord's freed man, and in the same way a free man, if called, becomes the slave of Christ.
23  You have all been redeemed at infinite cost: do not become slaves to men.
24  Where each one stood when he was called, there, brethren, let him still stand--close to God.

Ray Through The Spirit And Inspiration Of GOD; has given a solid foundation to work from, we, each individual must build on that foundation.

1Co 3: 4-15
4  For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5  Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6  I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7  So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8  Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9  For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10  According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

george.

Rodger,

I see, still dimly but i see why we need to be weaned of milk and get to learn meat eating. Thanks for putting into words what has been churning in my mind without me being able to formulate it properly.

Antaiwan,

The point is knowing where we are, we can then decide to go on past the dead works, into maturity or keep going backwards. It like the dance steps; 1 step forward, 2 steps backward, then tremble, what progress is there. Big question; why do we wean our children off milk as soon as possible :

Heb 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

george.

[Marlene]

Hello, Well, I have been reading.
Many verses talking about breastplat OT and NT
(WEY) Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore, first fastening round you the girdle of truth and putting on the breast plate of righteousness.
(KJV) 1 Thes. Chapter 5 verse 8 But let us , who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet,the hope of salvation

I was thinking if men were in war and they fall to sleep they are going to be attacked good.
I know for me the times I was not spending my one on one time with God I often have fallen into sin.
He has had to deliver me.

I understand where Rodger is coming from. He just wanted us to use this to check our standing with Christ.  
Now, the Holy Spirit has always got my conscience when I have fallen. It is not a nice feeling either.
We cannot trust man or anything but the Spirit of God. If, we do not know what is best. We should do nothing.

Before, coming in here the Holy Spirit of God got me good. Well, he decided to call me out of Babylon and grew me up fast. There is where I agree with Craig also. We are all at different levels. Sometimes we forget about wearing that breastplate. Thats, when we fall into temptation.  So, I am grateful for Rodger mentioning that we should check ourselves and not fall to sleep. I still have a long ways to go.

Well, I know we do not have an idea if we are chosen. But, I will heed the advice not to sleep. The enemy will take us over.
Like Craig if we have all knowledge and nothing else we are in a world of hurt. But, if we have the spirit of god he will guide us to the finish line.If, not when the Chariots of Iron come we will be defeated. To me the Spirit of God is our breastplate. I know for me that one on one time with God keeps me straight.
I stay awake. The word is his sword and that is very important. So both are part of that breastplate.  But, like Rodger this is a guideline where we are at. Are we sleeping some. Already this post has helped me. But, if we do fall God can deliver us out of it. Correct us put us back on the right path.

In His Love,
Marlene

So, if we negelct our time alone with God we may just start sleeping.

[aqrinc]

Marlene,

When the iron chariots come we must be girted and ready. And since those are Spiritual iron chariots, we need to have put on the entire package of Spiritual Armour that is provided By GOD And Our Lord Jesus Christ; to be able to stand.

Eph 6: 10-18 (KJV)
10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11  Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14  Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15  And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16  Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18  Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

george.

[mharrell08]

Let us stay away from Speculating and read what the Scriptures have on the armor, starting with the breast plate.

As Ray warns us so many times to PAY attention to the words, it would be most beneficial reading what Ray has written for us too study along with those Scriptures .

And or by all means send them to me in PM

Gonna make me a freindship braclet with the words " pay attention " inscribe on it Hmm in titanium. 

Peace

Rodger

Isa 59:17  For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

1 Thess 5:8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.


The breastplate is mentioned throughout the book of Exodus as a part of the garment worn by the Levite priests. Here in Isaiah & Thessalonians, the breastplate is likened to faith, love and righteousness.

The Levitical priesthood had a breastplate adorned with precious stones...in like manner, the saints, will have a spiritual breastplate of love, faith, righteousness and all the other spiritual fruits as they are the royal priesthood who are of the promise.

1 Pet 2:5&9  Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ...But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness [righteousness], faith

2 Cor 1:20  For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Col 2:10  And ye are complete in him [Christ], which is the head of all principality and power


Marques

[jennie]

As I was reading this thread and thinking on it some "milk" for thought came to me! Without being too graphic .... I refer back to nursing babies. Yes they can clamp down and give a little pain. I found that it was more painful before mine had any teeth at all. Those little gums can do some business! I was home with my baby until she went to school. I nursed for many reasons , one of which .... it was free food! I didn't wean her but let her begin to go on to other things. She could choose the breast or a sippy cup of juice or whatever. Anyhow... I guess I am saying she knew when she was ready to leave the breast so she did. maybe there is an instinctual "knowing" of when we need to go on to meat. Maybe God puts that into our hearts and minds to dig further and apply more. Love to all, Jennie

[Marky Mark]

Rodger,

   Maybe some light can be shed on the subject at hand from Strong's Lexicon.

   Just shooting rubber bands at the moon.



Breastplate;

8550 Tummiym toom-meem' plural of 8537; perfections, i.e. (techn.) one of the epithets of the objects in the high-priest's breastplate as an emblem of complete Truth:--Thummim.

Result of search for "8537":

8537 tom tome from 8552; completeness; figuratively, prosperity; usually (morally) innocence:--full, integrity, perfect(-ion), simplicity, upright(-ly, -ness), at a venture. See 8550.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8538 tummah toom-maw' feminine of 8537; innocence:--integrity.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8550 Tummiym toom-meem' plural of 8537; perfections, i.e. (techn.) one of the epithets of the objects in the high-priest's breastplate as an emblem of complete Truth:--Thummim.


Urim = "lights"
1) stones kept in a pouch on the high-priest's breastplate, used in determining God's decision in certain questions and issues


Thummim = "perfection"

1) stones provided for the means of achieving a sacred lot

a) used with the Urim, the will of God was revealed




Peace...mark

[mharrell08]

Isa 59:17  For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

1 Thess 5:8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.


The breastplate is mentioned throughout the book of Exodus as a part of the garment worn by the Levite priests. Here in Isaiah & Thessalonians, the breastplate is likened to faith, love and righteousness.

The Levitical priesthood had a breastplate adorned with precious stones...in like manner, the saints, will have a spiritual breastplate of love, faith, righteousness and all the other spiritual fruits as they are the royal priesthood who are of the promise.

1 Pet 2:5&9  Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ...But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness [righteousness], faith

2 Cor 1:20  For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Col 2:10  And ye are complete in him [Christ], which is the head of all principality and power


Marques

Excerpt from 'What is the Gospel of the Kingdom' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.0.html):

A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS - A HOLY NATION

But he said you will be unto Me a holy nation and He is talking to Israel.  Now this has got to come about.  Either Israel has to become holy nation, a kingdom of priests.  A kingdom implies kingship, royalty implies kingly, so if it's royal it's kingly.  King... priests... holy nation... Israel.  He said it, you shall be, thus says the Lord.  It must happen.  But it didn't happen.  It never happened historically, never happened.

It was a type.  The Levites are gone, the priests of Aaron are gone, the Tabernacle and in later times the Temple, it's all gone.  They never became a holy nation.

But the Christian world looks for it to happen yet, over there in Palestine.  Some of the most carnal people that ever lived and they say they are going to be that holy nation, that it's going to happen through them.  It will not happen through them.  It will happen through God's Israel though, make no mistake about that.

This was a type, the whole Old Testament is a type. [including the breastplate worn by the Levite priests-Marques]  Even though the first 5 books are called the Torah - the Law, the whole Old Testament is also referred to as the Law.

Now Hebrews 10, here we're not talking about the 10 Commandments, we are talking about the Old Testament - the old covenant - the Law of Moses and everything that went with it, the Law.

Heb 10:1  For the Law which has a shadow of good things to come...

There it is.  There is your answer.  God said Israel, all of you Israelites will be a kingdom of priests, a holy nation.  And Paul tells us that it was a type, a shadow of good things to come, not the very image of the things.

Heb 10:1   ... not the very image of the things, appearing year by year with the same sacrifices, which they offered year by year continually, make the comers there unto perfect.

They could not be a holy nation, if you're holy you're perfect, they weren't.  The writer of Hebrews says the Old Testament couldn't bring about this holy nation.  It was a shadow of what?  Better things to come.  Now there is some more of the definition of gospel - good news - better - good things to come.
He didn't do it through Israel.  Hebrews says it was a shadow of something to come.  But the priests were all gone, the priests and the Levites and even the nation.

Nobody know where the nation is anymore.  There is a good chance that people who claim to be Jews, make not be Jews by race at all.  But by religion, not by race.
I mean there are a lot of Jews in Ethiopia, these are black African people and they are Jews.  Ethiopia has a large population of black Jews and that history goes all the way back to the first century, that they have been Jews.
People have gotten sifted through the countries and the nations for 2000 years.  So these people in New York, Chicago, Miami, LA and Jerusalem that claim to be Jews, some of them may have some Jewish blood in them, some may not.

There are better things to come.  There is an interesting Scripture in Galatians.
If Israel is gone and the Levites are gone and the Aaron priesthood is gone and the Temple is gone and God is going to have an holy nation, where are they going to come from?
We're in the book of Galatians, are the Galatians Jews or Gentiles?  Galatians are Gentiles.

Gal 3:29  And if you (Galatians - Gentiles) are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

How about that!  Promised through the woman, through Abraham, through Isaac, through Jacob and then we have the one Seed arrives.  Jesus Christ taught all these things.  He said, if ye are Christ, the one Seed and you're Abraham, now you're into multiple seeds.
Now go to the last chapter.

Gal 6:16  And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Is He talking about carnal Pharisees and the Scribes?  No.  Those that walk according to this rule, this new rule, this being an Israelite without being an Israelite, being circumcised without being circumcised, being a Jew while you're a Gentile.  That's what this is all about, this is something different.  But it's going to fulfill that promise back in Exodus, He will make a royal nation, a royal priesthood and a holy nation out of who?  Israel.  What Israel?  The Israel of God.  Not those who are circumcised in the flesh, no no no.

Rom 2:28  "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;"
Rom 2:29  "but he is a Jew who is one inwardly (he writing to the Gentile Romans here, the Roman that is...) circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit (he is the spiritual Jew; the Roman - the Galatian - the Philippian and...) not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."

So if you are in Christ, you are of the Seed of Abraham, even though there is no bloodline connection.  Spirit is thicker than blood.


                                   

THE ISRAEL OF GOD

Let's see what Peter had to say about all this, in case you think Peter didn't understand some of this stuff.  Actually Peter was pretty good with the Scriptures.  You remember who Jesus Christ gave the keys of the kingdom of heaven to?  Peter.  Peter had it all worked out, he had a little problem there at Antioch, but after that he had it all worked out from then on.

1Peter 2:9  But ye (he is talking to Gentiles) are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, [priesthood; which is who the Levites were who wore the breastplate-Marques] a holy nation, His own peculiar (special) people...[/b]

Does that sound a little bit like Exodus 19?  I will make out of you a royal priesthood, a holy nation.    Where do you think Peter got it?

Exo 19:6  And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

A chosen generation, a royal means kingly priesthood, a holy nation.  A peculiar people, that comes out of about 3 different Greek words, the pronoun 'his' is in there and peculiar really means special.  So what this is saying is, you are His - God's precious people.  That's pretty neat, you are His precious people, not the Israel of old, not the Israel that came down through the seed of the devil, that was who?  The Scribes and the Pharisees and they personified it, the leadership of the church and the Temple system, personified the nation.  Not that seed, the seed of the devil.
You are the seed of Jesus Christ, you are of this Israel of God, like Paul talked about in Galatians.

Gal 6:16  And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them and upon the Israel of God.

1Peter 2:9  ...so that you might speak of the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

So the kingdom of God is what?  The Israel of God!  It's those who through the faith of Abraham... that is the same faith that God gave to Abraham He gives to us, that's the faith of Abraham.  We become this peculiar, special people to God.

Now get this.  Here's what He said we are.  He said I will have a nation and I will have a people and it didn't happen... but it was a type, a shadow of something that will happen.

The writer of Hebrews tells us that there is an Israel of God, those who are baptized in the Spirit, circumcised in the Spirit and they are now spiritual Israel, Jews.  They are the real Jews, the ones that are converted in heart and mind and spirit.  Then Peter comes right out and says, you are that royal family, that special people, that kingdom of priests, that holy nation, that's what you are.

So what is it?  It's the gospel of the kingdom.  What is the kingdom?  YOU - WE are the kingdom!  How about that.  We are the kingdom.  It's the gospel, the good news of the kingdom.  When you are spiritually converted and you are holy and you are circumcised in spirit and mind and soul and heart you are a spiritual Jew.  You are the one that He said back there, I'm going to make you a holy nation, Israel, but not that Israel, that was a type.  That was a shadow, that was only going to be a nation of people living in a certain land.

This kingdom is going to what?  Bless all the nations.  This is a big kingdom and it's a spiritual kingdom, because the more we do away with the flesh, the more spiritual we get.  The more we die to the flesh, the more we grow to the spirit.

So it's not as negative as it seems when you get old and decrepit like me.  The flesh is dying, but hopefully the spirit is growing.  Where as I use to be dead in my spirit and soar in my flesh, now I'm almost dead in my flesh and soaring in my spirit.  That's good, that's the way it should be.  Do you see that in your life?  You should see the flesh dying.  I'm going to talk a little bit about that in the second part.


Marques

[Marky Mark]

Marques,

   Thank-you for the post,it all comes down to being Spiritual.The OT is a book of shadows indeed.That was a great primer,need to go back and reread.


Peace...Mark
 
   

[jennie]

That is a powerful thought. I have been ingesting this one ever since you srote it. It is almost more than my brain con understand.