bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Change ?  (Read 5809 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Change ?
« on: March 25, 2009, 10:54:29 AM »

What is change,  how does it  occur,  why we can not take any credit for it and why should we desire it?

Ray says : I had come to understand that we don’t have a free will I was that far along….but I was still not really changing my life.

Although Ray received a knowledge and comprehension of the Myth of Free Will, which many of us have still to fully grasp though others may have understood it easily, God  gave Ray a desire for change.

Why do you think CHANGE is so important ?

 You might find some pretty marvellous answers to this question where Ray expounds and also shares his experience with God at http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html                 

How do you see God is changing you?

Arc
Logged

Marlene

  • Guest
Re: Change ?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2009, 02:39:59 PM »

Arc, I was reading that same article last night.
Why we should not take credit for change.
Ephesians Chapter 2
verse 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by graced ye are saved;
vers6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus
verse 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
verse 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God;
verse9 not of works, lest any man should boast
verse 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Why, should we want change. We need to change repent and turn away from sin. We, are going to be made into the Image of God and that requires change.
Ephesians Chapter 2 verse 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
verse 14 For he is our peace, we hath made both one and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
verse 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordiances for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
verse 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby
verse 17 and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
verse 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father
verse19 Now therefore ye are not more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens with the saints and of the household of God
verse 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
verse 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord;
verse 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God  through the Spirit.
If, we don't change and continue to live in sin we are not his
Ephesians Chapter 5
verse 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord; walk as children of light.
verse 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
verse 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
The whole process of the article is all one. With out all parts of it we are missing a step we need to take on the road to being made in his Image.

In His Love,
Marlene
Logged

aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: Change ?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2009, 03:54:58 PM »


Hi Arc,

Real change comes when we have been led to true Repentance By GOD, as Ray teaches in:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html

Here is a link to a previous discussion thread on repentance we had back in february; Below is the first post:

Excerpt from Repentance: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9389.0.html


This topic was addressed by Ray a while ago. At the time i read it my thoughts were,
i already have read the Bible many times; so what is the big deal. Well the big deal is
reading, and then doing, the things that Ray counselled have really been a huge deal.

This is not for stories or confessions but to ask any member that has listened to the
audio and read this paper completely. Has it made a difference in your understanding
and discernmernt of The Scriptures. For me it is an emphatic yes, i would love to get
some feedback from others.

Mat 3: 1-2
1  In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea,
2  and saying, Repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Mat 4:17 
From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Mat 11:20 
Then He began to upbraid the cities in which most of His mighty works were done, because they did not repent.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.msg27923.html#msg27923

Excerpt from: Repentance----- Nashville Conference 2005

Who knows what the first word was that Jesus Christ said in his ministry?  According to Matthew it was, “Repent.”  So if that’s the first word out of our Savior’s mouth, maybe we ought to look at it a little bit…

Repent means to turn around, to go the other way.  Whatever you are doing that’s wrong and sinful and evil and carnal and worldly and everything else, you turn around, you “repent” and you go the other direction.  The scriptures mention a couple of words:

Matthew 18:3 talks about being converted
Matthew 19:28 talks about being regenerated
1Peter 1:3 talks about being born again
John 3:3 talks about being born again

What are all those things?  They’re all one and the same, there’s no difference.  Being begotten anew, being born again, being regenerated, being converted…they are all the same.  And this is what we all want to do, so that we can take on more knowledge and live more Godly, and reach this goal.  We all sin.  Sin has to go through three things:  cleansing, repentance, forgiveness.  Does anybody know the order of these things?

This is the order of what happens to sin:

1.   Forgiveness
2.   Repentance
3.   Cleansing

(God does not cleanse anybody of sins they haven’t repented of.)

Forgiveness comes first and isn’t that interesting.  Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world and why was he slain?  Why did Christ die?  The scriptures say Christ died for our sins.  That’s the simplest statement.  But there is a little bit more.  I want you to notice this:

This is the audio version; this is priceless as a listening learning tool'

Audio Download link: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Ray_Repent%201.mp3

george.  :)


Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Change ?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2009, 05:28:59 PM »



I see that I asked too many questions at the start of my post.

Thank you Marlene and aqr for your replies!

It is wonderful when God directs us to His Word and we can share and/or He directs us to answers we know are present in the teachings that Ray expounds. Being able to do this is certainly one of the ways we are changed but I do not think it is all the way.

We can be forever learning and never changing.

Ray shared with us how God changed him. How do you see God is or has been changing YOU?

Arc




Logged

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Change ?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2009, 05:48:11 PM »



I see that I asked too many questions at the start of my post.

Thank you Marlene and aqr for your replies!

It is wonderful when God directs us to His Word and we can share and/or He directs us to answers we know are present in the teachings that Ray expounds. Being able to do this is certainly one of the ways we are changed but I do not think it is all the way.

We can be forever learning and never changing.

Ray shared with us how God changed him. How do you see God is or has been changing YOU?

Arc


I told a friend recently that I am gaining a lot of understanding in how the Lord raises us up by going through the experience of raising my kids. Kids begin by only doing what they believe is okay even if all they do is what pleases them...similar to us before the Lord begins to make a change in us.

Then, to get them to act 'good', my wife and I have to teach them what is good and acceptable behavior and what is not. But it is much easier to show them what is bad once they have experienced it...like teaching my 4 yr old to lean forward when she eats at the table.

She says, 'Okay Daddy' but keeps doing what she wants. When I show her the mess she leaves on the floor and have her 'clean it up' (even though it's mostly me cleaning), she remembers that experience. Now when I warn her again the next night, I'll mention the last time when she had to clean up and she begins to change her eating habits. She begins to change her behavior at the dinner table because she went through 'messing up' and now that I've shown her her errors, it's in here remembrance.

In that way more than anything else, I have begun to understand 'how' the Lord works in people of all ages...it is humbling for sure but being humbled is good as then, the experience is in your remembrance.  :)


Thanks for the thread Arc,

Marques
Logged

Amrhrasach

  • Guest
Re: Change ?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2009, 07:31:36 PM »

A few months ago I read the Repentance paper for the first time.  I had been reading the bible off and on for many years prior but like Ray, I knew a few things, nothing real solid and I wasn't going to be nominated for any awards as the good samaritan either.     

When reading the Repentance paper at that time the very one thing that stuck out to me the most, or I should say STRUCK out at me, was how much of a beast I could see in myself.  A true beast.  That was a first glimpse.  I never realized how incredibly poor I was up to that point.  And I remember how I felt.  That even though I could see what a true un-inspiring "christian" I had been up to that point, I wanted to see and recognize MORE of that beast that I had become.  Only for the purpose of getting the beast out.  To truly repent.  If I don't really understand, or see all that it is, how can it be defeated or removed? (realizing now that it's God that does the removing).

Nonetheless, first change, seeing and understanding who the beast is.

If assessed now, another major change has been that I don't condemn others near as badly as I was once accustomed to doing.  (Good god, for someone who had no mark of excellence I was the last one that should be doing any condeming)

Gary 
Logged

EKnight

  • Guest
Re: Change ?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2009, 08:30:06 PM »

Hi Arc,

I hate to say this, but I think I am what you called in another thread, "someone who is always learning and never changing".

I thought I was making progress in the beginning, and maybe I have but it's certainly not noteworthy. :(

Eileen
Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Change ?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2009, 06:39:15 PM »



Hi Marques

Your children are BLESSED BIG TIME to have a Father like you. I can only imagine how I would have turned out if my late Dad had been exposed to that Divine influence on the Heart Grace of God. I too may not have had the agony of the mess ups by the Grace of God I endured and was appointed by God to go through.

Hi Gary

I have been here for some three years studying BT. I consider myself unconverted like the Apostles who walked with Christ for three years and still were not converted either.It is great to be able to know the Scriptures and to turn to where answers are found to add to topics raised here but it is not enough.

God is able to make all Grace abound towards us. Do we know what His Grace is before it abounds towards us? Does anyone? First comes the shadow, first the natural and then His Presence that transforms us as we behold His Glory more and more. This is I believe what happened to Ray as He teaches us that first God forgave Him, he repented, received a clear conscience and then God began to show him what Ray has been sharing with us in BT.

Hi Eileen

I find comfort to know we are not alone and that Jesus did not choose one Disciple only.

As Ray expounds, we all have to die the second death, we all have to be judged, set straight and converted. It is wonderful to evaluate if we are being changed by His Spirit or if we are only following Him because we get fed. When we start to see ourselves for who and what we are, it hurts and it is a good hurt. As Paul writes 2 Cor 7 :9 Yet I am glad now, not because you were pained, but because you were pained into repentance and so turned back to God; for you felt a grief such as God MEANT YOU TO FEEL, so that in nothing you might suffer loss through us or harm for what we did. 10. For godly grief and the pain God is permitted to direct, produce a repentance that leads and contributes to salvation and deliverance from evil.....Rays teachings on Who is the Beast expounds. http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html

Thank you all for your comments.
Arc
Logged

Ocean

  • Guest
Re: Change ?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2009, 04:06:15 AM »

Hi Arc and friends,

Just adding my 2-cent worth. Fundamentally i see change is when you experience something that you know is different to something you've ever experienced before. And that it ignites a desire to keep wanting it MORE (new experience)....yet deep within, you know that there is a higher being (no doubt God) that is leading you and that you couldn't have done it on your own.

Personally, i've had to experience the bad (in career, marriage, family) before i can learn to appreciate and not take them for granted. For 34 yrs i know what triggers me to put up a FIGHT...not physically [i'm a scaredy-cat ;)but emotionally and psychologically. Most of my heartache was because my pride and fragile ego [beast within]took a hit....and i got nastier and nastier with my fight-back. It was emotionally draining and i wanted 'out' but just didn't know how. God has a way to intervening when you've hit your 'valley' moments. Since 2005, i've encountered similar situations as before BUT my approach had changed. Many a times, after a hostile encounter, i am amazed at the level of calmness i've shown. Also, i'm more forgiving when others misunderstand and/or in/unintentionally hurt me....these are attributes i NEVER possessed before. I would look back at the incident and marvel 'phew, did i just do/say that'. I knew, without a doubt, that it was all the ''Master Potter's'' doing.....i'm just the 'clay' work-in-progress. When i see His Divine hand in situations, I'd always utter 'Thank You Papa, i knew it was your doing'. I can never take credit for that change....even few of my 'enemies' have come to embrace me and Glory is always to God.

Change-In-Progress  8),
Ocean 

Logged

Ninny

  • Guest
Re: Change ?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2009, 04:12:17 PM »

As an interesting side note here about change or maybe it goes along with the same idea...
I know a person who used to get on my nerves SO bad!! Everything you talked about she knew ALL about it and had DONE it at sometime in her life! This woman was just in her late 20's about the same age as my own sons. I went to church with her she was a sweet girl, but I just couldn't stand to be around her for any length of time! We started a choir and who do you think was the choir director?? You got it! She could sing ok, but she had a high voice and it was hard to follow her!  I thought, "Oh no! I am NOT going to sing in the choir, then!"  One night something came over me as I was thinking about the whole thing. I was complaining to God about how annoying this girl was and I thought, I know I'll pray that she starts to see how she is then she'll change! I was so clever!

My mind got very clear after that and I really felt God tell me, "If you want her to change, then you have to ask for your attitude about her to change."  WHAT!? ME??? I'm not the one who's the know-it-all pain in the backside!! (It's a good thing our God is so gracious)  I kinda felt like a two year old who was forced to share my toys! haha! I look back on that now and guess what? I did ask God to change my attitude! I was never bothered by her again! Other people were still bothered by her attitude about things, but I even got to the point where I would talk with her and laugh with her. She moved away and I even missed her when she left!

Now, that was one way God changed me, since that time of course I came to BT and I realized why I had to have an attitude adjustment, it was part of my judgment! It was God chastising me! It was one of those things that was not silver or gold, but wood, hay and stubble that had to be burned up to reveal the things that are worth keeping! One time a pastor said "If you feel something well up inside you (toward another person or a circumstance in your life) then God is wanting to skim that off!  That's what his judgments are no matter how harsh it is, it's God skimming and burning the worthless character out of you, so that His character can replace yours!
That's the way it is with me!
Kathy :D
Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Change ?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2009, 05:04:50 PM »

Hi Ocean

When I first saw your Avatar here in the Forum I recalled Ray commenting on something he had read and enjoyed about a being in a small boat on God's large sea. You comment quote "'Thank You Papa, i knew it was your doing'" is like saying Thank You Papa I know it is your ocean, your field, your vineyard your harvest and I am yours.

Kathy it is amazing how God works.  I find that God has made me become aware of His Mercy and Pity that He causes me to acknowledge when He makes me cry to Him. He is so wonderful!

Arc

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.026 seconds with 20 queries.