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Author Topic: Spiritual match and 2 witnesses.  (Read 5764 times)

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Amrhrasach

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Spiritual match and 2 witnesses.
« on: March 25, 2009, 03:01:28 PM »

Spiritual match and 2 witnesses.

I’ve been reading Ray’s paper “Twelve Truths to Understanding His Word” and now I’m attempting to understand the process to determine a “spiritual match”, and/or “2 witnesses”.

I’m not certain that I will recognize a “spiritual match”, or the “2 witnesses”.

For example:

"Joh 14:2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

My “search” keyword into Esword was “prepare”.

Responses from search function:  78 verses from Exodus through Philemon from the KJVR.

Now I’m stuck.   What I’m wanting to read is additional verses that speak of the place where Jesus has gone to “prepare”, and/or, additional information of  the “father’s house”.

Hopefully you see where I’m going with the search.

How do I recognize a match from using the word “prepare” with the subject matter as the “father’s house”?

Thanks for any help.

Gary
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual match and 2 witnesses.
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2009, 04:17:53 PM »

Hi  Gary

See if the following helps http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html


A SPIRITUAL MATCH

In Rev. 20:11 we read of "a great white throne." In Verse 12 the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books are opened, and God presents us with a double witness that "every man’s work" shall be judged by "fire":

"and the dead judged… ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS," (Rev. 20:11). And they are judged in "FIRE," Vers. 14, 15 & 21:8.
 
"…they were judged every man ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS." (Rev. 20:13). And they are judged in "FIRE," Vers. 14, 15 & 21:8.
Now then, is there another Scripture that speaks of the judgment of "every man’s WORK?" and every man’s work judged by "FIRE?" Yes, there is, and only one other:

"EVERY MAN’S WORK shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by FIRE" (I Cor. 3:13a).
 
"…And the FIRE shall try EVERY MAN’S WORK…." (I Cor. 3:13b).
We have now located our "two witnesses."
These are the only two places in the entirety of the Bible that speak of:

"EVERY MAN…,"
 
"Every man’s WORK…,"
 
"Every man’s work, JUDGED…MANIFESTED, DECLARED, REVEALED, AND TRIED...,"
 
"Every man’s work judged…tried BY FIRE."
[/color]

The Church falsley teaches that the Scriptures are literal so they can not see and neither does it suit them to see or understand or believe  that the two witnesses refer to matching Scriptures not two people in agreement.

Ray councils us regarding the twelve God given truths to understand the Word of God that : These twelve spiritual truths are not just helpful in understanding God’s word; they are essential. Without them, you cannot understand anything spiritual in the Scriptures. To the degree that you deny or leave off one or more of them is the degree that your spiritual understanding diminishes. Apply them all, always, and you will see spiritual revelation like you never even thought possible.

Arc

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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual match and 2 witnesses.
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2009, 04:19:52 PM »

Spiritual match and 2 witnesses.

I’ve been reading Ray’s paper “Twelve Truths to Understanding His Word” and now I’m attempting to understand the process to determine a “spiritual match”, and/or “2 witnesses”.

I’m not certain that I will recognize a “spiritual match”, or the “2 witnesses”.

For example:

"Joh 14:2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

My “search” keyword into Esword was “prepare”.

Responses from search function:  78 verses from Exodus through Philemon from the KJVR.

Now I’m stuck.   What I’m wanting to read is additional verses that speak of the place where Jesus has gone to “prepare”, and/or, additional information of  the “father’s house”.

Hopefully you see where I’m going with the search.

How do I recognize a match from using the word “prepare” with the subject matter as the “father’s house”?

Thanks for any help.

Gary


Hello Gary,

To me, the word that stuck out the most is 'mansion' as it is rarely used. Here is the Greek word for mansion:

mansion, Gk [#G3438]: monē - a staying, abiding, dwelling, abode; to make an (one's) abode

And here is the only other scripture where it is used:

John 14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode [Gk. monē] with him.

The root of 'monē' is 'menō' which in Greek means:

menō [Gk #G3306] - to remain, abide; to wait for, await one

This word is used 120 times in the NT but more than half the time (61 to be exact) it is translated to 'abide'.

Here are some more scriptures where Christ states where He and us abide:

John 15

v4  Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

v5  I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

v6  If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

v7  If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


Here is the scripture that you started with:

John 14:2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Our Father dwells in spirit and that is where/how He makes His 'abode' in us. Ray explains in greater detail [about Christ going away to prepare a place for us] from the following paper 'Is God a Closed Trinity or an Open Family' (http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html):

Jesus told His disciples in John 16:7:

    "It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will NOT COME UNTO YOU; but if I depart, I will SEND HIM unto you."

Is this "comforter" the third God of a trinity? Let us see Who this Comforter really is! Didn’t you ever wonder why this Comforter could not come until Christ departed? The comforter does not come until Christ departs to the Father, because the comforter IS THE SON returning in the form of "spirit," "holy spirit." Jesus is saying to him,

    "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one is coming to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).

    "Now, whenever the consoler [comforter] which I shall be sending you from the Father..."

Notice that Christ sends the comforter from the Father and what Jesus instructs. And notice that it does not involve a third person of a fabled trinity:

    "Yet whenever that may be coming--the spirit of truth [Jesus said that HE is the Truth]--it will be guiding you in to all the truth, for it will NOT be speaking from itself [it is NOT A GOD], but whatsoever it should be hearing [from Whom sent it] will it be speaking, and of what is coming will it be informing you. That will be glorifying ME, seeing that of MINE will it be getting, and informing you. All, whatever the Father has, is MINE. THEREFORE I said to you that OF MINE IS IT GETTING, AND WILL BE INFORMING YOU." (John 16:13-15).

This is not hard to understand. The spirit of Truth is Christ. The comforter is Christ. The spirit will be speaking TO the disciples THROUGH Christ’s spirit which is His because the Father gave this spirit TO HIM! There’s no trinity here.

Jesus said:

    "I will NOT leave you bereaved [comfortless], I am coming to you [in the form of the comforter and spirit of truth]" (Jn 14:18).

Now notice how clear Jesus makes this. Who or What is this spirit, holy spirit, holy ghost, spirit of truth, comforter? Is it really the third person of a triune God? Let Jesus Himself answer:

    "IN THAT DAY [the day when the comforter comes] you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I IN YOU" (Jn 14:20).

    "Now the consoler [comforter], THE HOLY SPIRIT, which the Father will be sending IN MY NAME, that will be teaching you all, and reminding you of all that I said to you" (Jn 14:26).

    "I am going, and I AM COMING TO YOU" (Jn. 14:27).

JESUS CHRIST BY MEANS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD WHICH HIS FATHER GAVE TO HIM IS THE COMFORTER. THE GREEK PROVES THAT CHRIST IS THE COMFORTER!

In the Greek, the "comforter" or consoler is translated from parakleetos. Now, is there any Scriptural proof that Jesus Christ is called "parakleetos?" Yes there is. In I John 2:1 we read:

    "And if anyone should be sinning, we have an Entreater with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Just."

In the King James it says we have an "advocate" [with a small "a"]. King James ALWAYS capitalizes the Greek word "parakleetos," so why don’t they capitalize it here? You see, "advocate" or a better translation "Entreater" is translated from the GREEK WORD "parakleetos!"

HERE IS PROOF POSITIVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE "PARAKLEETOS!"



Hope this helps,

Marques
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual match and 2 witnesses.
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2009, 04:53:49 PM »



Hi Gary,

As I was looking at the excerpt from article no. 5, going back to the article I found much more there that may help as you said, to understand the process to determine a “spiritual match”, and/or “2 witnesses”.

http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html -----------------------

How then shall we interpret this metaphorical Scripture? Or is this the enigma of all enigmas? The riddle of all riddles? Actually the Scriptures tell us exactly what this "lake of fire/second death" really is. But let me be quick to reassure you that we will never come to an understanding of this metaphor by applying the principles of Christian Theology. This metaphor is NOT physical, material, or literal, but SPIRITUAL in every way! We must look to the spiritual, through spiritual eyes if we are to ever comprehend this enigmatic metaphor.

                      THE KEYS TO SPIRITUAL INTERPRETATION

We will consider four guiding Scriptures:

1. "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation" (II Pet. 1:20).

The KJV is not the best translation of this verse—it is neither by far the worst. The word "private" tends to fog the understanding of this Scripture. If no Scripture is to be of a "private" interpretation, are we to look for a "PUBLIC" interpretation? That sounds silly.

This is a profoundly important verse when it comes to interpreting Scripture. Yet, I doubt that there are many who understand this verse.

The Greek word translated "private" in the KJV is the word idios, and although it can mean private or separate, more specifically it has reference to "one’s OWN" or "his OWN" or "their OWN" or "your OWN" or "OWN." In this case, it would mean "ITS own" as a prophecy is non-personal and inanimate. See Strong’s Greek Dictionary p. 119. Now notice a couple of translations that retain this definition:

First from the Concordant Greek Text in an "Ultraliteral English Sublinear": "…this BEFORE-most KNOWING that EVERY BEFORE-AVERment OF-WRITing OWN ON-LOOSing NOT IS-BECOMING."

Rendered in the Translation as: "…knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture at all is becoming its OWN explanation."—Concordant Literal New Testament

Next from the Emphatic Diaglott English Interlineary: "…this first knowing, that all prophecy of a writing, of its OWN loosing not it is."

Rendered in the Translation as: "This first ascertaining, That All Prophecy of Scripture is not of its OWN Solution"—The Emphatic Diaglot, A New Emphatic Version.

I go to all these extra efforts of showing you the Greek so that you can be convinced yourself and not just believe that this is "my interpretation" of how a verse can or cannot be "interpreted."

So now we can make sense out of this verse, and how profound it is. It destroys the carnal minded approach to Scriptural interpretation. So here is what God is teaching us. No prophetic statement (Revelation is prophecy—See Rev. 22:18, "…the words of the prophecy of this scroll") has within its OWN statement the explanation and fulfillment of that statement. Therefore it is wrong and unscriptural to insist that the very verse that contains the prophecy (such as "the lake of fire. This is the second death") has within itself the interpretation of itself. That’s what God has now taught us in II Pet. 1:20! Therefore, we must go elsewhere to find the correct interpretation. But how do we do that without making blunders and mistakes? We have three more Key verses that will keep us on the right track.

2. "It is the spirit that quickens [makes alive]; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT and they are life."

We touched on this verse already, but it is an important part of our four-verse key. Again I ask: Who believes this verse? If the words that Jesus spoke are "spirit," then how can anyone suggest that everything He said must be taken "literally?" Christ taught in public by parables only. Parables are spiritual, not literal. The book of Revelation is the "Revelation of Jesus Christ," therefore the words of the book of Revelation are SPIRIT! The book of Revelation was "signified" (that is SYMBOLIZED). It is a whole book of symbols, metaphors, and figurative language. Therefore the metaphor: "the lake of fire which is the second death" must be spiritual! But how do we discern things that are "spiritual?"

We need another key.

3. "But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED" (I Cor. 2:14).

And so when I explain spiritual things, I get a lot of e-mail from Christians who condemn me in not too flattering tones, because they are carnal and cannot possibly receive spiritual things. They truly are FOOLISHNESS to them. They ask me if I can’t read. They tell me the verse ITSELF tells us what it means. (But isn’t that just what Peter said cannot be done? That no verse of prophecy explains ITSELF)?

There are reasons God put these verses in the Scriptures.

Remember earlier when we discussed how theologians compare physical things with physical things thinking that they will accomplish something spiritual? Show me a Scripture where God instructs us to compare physical things with physical things for spiritual understanding? SHOW ME! David said "A good understanding have all they that KEEP God’s commandments." The problem with all too many is that they don’t obey God ("Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed CAN BE" Rom. 8:7), and they don’t believe God. We MUST believe God when we are told that the book of Revelation is the words of Jesus Christ and therefore is SPIRIT! Next I will give you one of God’s commandments we are to follow if we are to ever understand such things as "the lake of fire."

The Scriptures don’t command us to compare physical things with spiritual things or spiritual things with physical things or physical things with physical things, so why do we do it? That is exactly how theologians have come to believe that the lake of fire and second death are literal physical tortures for all eternity. They have compared physical fire with physical fire and came up with the conclusion that the lake of fire is physical, material, literal FIRE! God never instructed us to learn spiritual lessons in this manner!

Next we will see how God does instruct us to understand SPIRITUAL MATTERS.

4. "Which things also we speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teacheth [not by comparing physical things with physical things], but which the HOLY SPIRIT TEACHES; COMPARING [OR MATCHING] SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 2:13)!

This is really quite profound. This marvelous Scripture, plus the three prior Scriptures will open up understanding to us that has been closed to many Christians for two thousand years.
v
v
Now back to our fourth key verse: "…comparing spiritual things with spiritual." Several translations make this "…matching spiritual things with spiritual." And that word "matching" clarifies this verse even more. Notice the next verse which we have already quoted above, "But the natural [carnal, Greek: animal man] receives NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither CAN he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned." Now I have heard that verse quoted as many times as any of you, but how many quoting it had even a clue as to what they were quoting? It is often used by charismatic preachers to insinuate that they have special powers of spiritual discernment, and can therefore read your mind and heart and know whether you are in a bad attitude or maybe have a demon, etc., etc. But notice that God tells us exactly how to have "spiritual discernment." We are to follow the instruction in the preceding verse: "comparing [and/or matching] SPIRITUAL things with SPIRITUAL!"
v
v
Before we look for something spiritual to match this metaphor, it will be helpful to know just what it means to be "spiritual." There is a giant different between something sounding spiritual and something that actually is spiritual.

WHAT DOES "SPIRITUAL" MEAN?

The American Heritage Dictionary, p. 1335, spiritual adj. 1. Of, relating in, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; NOT TANGIBLE OR MATERIAL.

Strong’s Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, "spiritual" #4152, pneumatkos, "Pneumatkos ALWAYS connotes the ideas of INVISIBILITY and of POWER" p. 205. (All CAPS are mine).

THE "LAKE OF FIRE-SECOND DEATH" IS NOT TANGIBLE OR MATERIAL OR LITERAL, BUT RATHER IS AN INVISIBLE POWER! THE LAKE OF FIRE IS SPIRITUAL!

That’s right: the lake of fire is spiritual and therefore invisible. No one will ever SEE the lake of fire; just as no one will ever SEE God’s Spirit; and just as no one will ever SEE God’s "consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29). But make no mistake about it; the lake of fire is REAL, and it is very HOT, and it BURNS things, and its effects are ETERNAL—all, of course, SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING.

We need also to understand that not everything that is "spiritual" is holy and good. There is also "spiritual wickedness" (Eph. 6:12). Many believe that the impartation of "immortality" and "incorruption" automatically impart holiness and perfection as well. This is obviously not true, as there is much "spiritual wickedness" in high places among those who do possess incorruption and immortality. We must understand that something "spiritual" can also be extremely wicked, as this has much to do with the purpose and function of the lake of fire. Not only is the lake of fire itself "spiritual," but, everything that is thrown into the lake of fire is either spiritual or at least inanimate or intangible (as with "hades and death").

Okay, fine; the lake of fire is spiritual, but what about these questions: Who are thrown into it? When is it? Where is it? Why is it? What does it accomplish? How long will it burn, and how can you escape it? Now I could answer all those in one sentence, but it wouldn’t be very detailed, and I am sure you would want to know more.

I think most of my readers by now realize that I don’t believe for one second that the lake of fire is some hellhole of real fire that burns and tortures human flesh for all eternity. So we will now concentrate on just what the lake of fire is, what it accomplishes, for whom, and how long will it take.

To do this we must follow God’s four keys to understand spiritual things. God has provided these Scriptural keys so that the wise can and will understand His Word.
---------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Amrhrasach

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual match and 2 witnesses.
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2009, 05:48:57 PM »

Thank you Arc, Marques and Kat.   Such a great help.   I see that there is much much more to a search of spiritual matching than I initially thought and I can certainly see how one’s growth will develop with continued use.   Since I do most of my reading outside and from printed material from BT and forum material, and without Esword at the touch, I can see I’ll be flipping quite a few pages and going to and from several publications as well.  Thus, another page of instructions to be added, but a good one.

I’ve been listening to “Gospel of the Kingdom” and Ray is speaking on and explaining the “heaven of the heavens”.  That’s what got my search started on John 14:2, and the “father’s house”.

Again thank you, each, very much.

Gary
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daywalker

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual match and 2 witnesses.
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2009, 07:49:52 PM »


...HERE IS PROOF POSITIVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE "PARAKLEETOS!"[/color]

Hope this helps,

Marques


Wow! Awesome post Marques!  ;D

- Daywalker.
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cheekie3

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual match and 2 witnesses.
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2014, 06:31:19 AM »

All -

A Great Question.

Excellent Posts.

George.

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