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Author Topic: The Ten Commandments  (Read 10151 times)

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koine480

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The Ten Commandments
« on: March 27, 2009, 02:17:10 AM »


    I'm still new to posting here and a little reluctant I guess to throw my thoughts out there for your critique. However, it is because of the respect that I have for your opinions that I would like to hear your thoughts and input on this. Hopefully, I won't violate any forum rules. At least I do not intend too!
   
   OK, enough of the disclaimers. In Exodus 20:1-17 God gave to the Hebrews his initial set of "rules to live by", better known to us as the "Ten Commandments". I understand and agree that we are no longer under law but under grace,yet, God does not change. The basic principals of these laws are as binding on the christian as they were on the Hebrews. They are after all, it seems to me, the basis of love and honor. I do not think anyone would break one of these laws and not feel that he had sinned.

   This brings me to my question. If you accept the primise that the intent of these laws are still to be obeyed, what about the fourth commandment? It is specifically stated that we are to " Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy". It is the only commandment that is ignored or discounted as meaningless to us as Christians yet, the other nine, are looked at as binding principles. Why?

        I don't find any evidence that Paul or the other apostles willingly violated the sabbath or failed to observe it. Paul kept god's "appointed times" to the best of his ability after his conversion. He realized,I think, that as a Pharisee he had placed the "traditions of men" given in the oral law above Gods law and it caused him great regret. However, where did he teach that the principles of the ten commandments were not to be observed?

   13 But  we ought always to give thanks to God for you,  brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you  as the firstfruits   to be saved,  through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through  our gospel,  so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers,  stand firm and hold to  the traditions that you were taught by us, either  by our spoken word or by  our letter.
2 Thess 2:13-15 (ESV)

   I have read a great deal of Ray's writings and a couple things he wrote about the sabbath, but I am far from having a complete knowledge or grasp of all his teaching. Believe me I'm working on it! He is such a prolific writer and such a great teacher that I may be traveling a well trod path and just don't know it. I humbly and sincerely would like to see any comments you all might have on this. These are honest questions that I have been chewing on a long time and I have finally found a place where I'm not afraid to ask them. God bless you all. Thank you God for L. Ray Smith.

   Grace and Peace to you all,

   Ron M.   
     
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mhykx

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Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2009, 04:39:21 AM »

Hi Ron,

Before I was converted, I was a member a Sabbath-keeping church, Living Church of God (one of the splinters of Worldwide Church of God [WWCG]; and did you know that Ray was a former WWCG member?).  In LCG, or in any off-shoots of WWCG, keeping the Ten Commandments is "all that matters" (if I may borrow the words my pastor told me when I handed him my reason of living the church).  For him, and I guess for all the members, you obey the Ten Commandments or you won't be in the kingdom of God.  But the question is how do we obey the commandments of God?  Who is doing the work?

Have you read the following available articles here?  They have the answers to your questions.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.0.htmlKeeping the Sabbath
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm - The Sermon on the Mount is for You

I’m not in a position to teach for I’m still quite new in the faith.  But I will follow this thread and will give bits of my testimony as our B-T “elders” expound what is explained in the above articles.

Hang on for answers.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike
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mharrell08

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Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2009, 07:43:22 AM »

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2425.0.html):

Dear Christopher:

I don't know of anywhere that it says "we are no longer keeping the Sabbath."

God be with you,

Ray

PS   Of course I don't know where it says that "we are no longer keeping the

law of wearing mixed fabrics" either.  I personally keep God's Sabbath day of rest,

EVERY DAY.



Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2584.0.html):

Dear Melissa:

Many people as me if I keep the seventh day sabbath of rest?  And I tell them all the same thing:  Yes, of couurse, I keep it every day.

The physical weekly day of physical rest of the 4th commandment is for those who have not yet learned that what this day and commandment pictures is entering into the Rest of our Lord, which is something we keep every day of our life.  One cannot both keep the physical day of rest and also be observing God's spiritual Rest, which covers every day of the week. Once God taught His people what Circumcision stood for a picture in the spirit, Paul taught to NOT be physically circumcised any longer. In fact, if one is physically circumcised as a work of salvation, HE FALLS FROM GRACE! (Gal. 5:1-4).

God be with you,

Ray



Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2621.0.html):

Dear Michael:
Yes, of course the Sabbath Command has great importance and significance to those who understand it. It PICTURES something.  What it pictures is a totaly mystery to the Church, however, or they would not "keep" the Sabbath every seventh day, they would keep it EVERY DAY.
Circumcision PICTURED something also, but as the Church nor the Jews really understand what it pictures, they continue to circumcise FOR RELIGIOUS purposes whereas Paul said that if one circumcises for religious purposes, he falls from grace.  Wow, imagine that.  Falling from grace for obeying God's commandments?  "O that there were such an HEART IN THEM!"
 
If the actual ritual of cutting off the foreskin accomplished something spiritually, then God should have had all men wait until they were 20 years old before being circumcised. Yikes! And if the foreskin were such that it grew back every month, I guess to obey this commandment one would have to be circumcised every month.  An eight day old baby hard knows that circumcision pictures, yet that is when it was done.  It is the adults who are supposed to know what it stands for, but they don't.  In the same way most Sabbath keepers have not a clue what they are doing. They think that "keeping" the Sabbath accomplishes something spiritual just as circumcision an eight day old baby accomplishes something spiritual--IT DOES NOT.
 
I will explain this further when I write my own Law Paper.  I'll give you a hint:  The law [of Moses] IS SPIRITUAL (Rom. 7:14).
 
God be with you,
Ray



Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3518.0.html):

Dear Brandon:
    The Sabbath and the Old Testament Law is way way too big a subject for an email.
    It is quite involved. Much of it will be explained in my upcoming Installment of my "HELL"
    series, Part D. We are NOT TO MURDER. So we are to keep the commandments of Moses.
    But we are NOT UNDER THE LAW of Moses. So what does that mean? All physical types
    and rituals have a spiritual purpose.
Circumcision was not designed by God for the purpose of
    making a man's penis shorter!  It is a symbol of cutting off the flesh, the carnal mind of our heart. It has a spiritual purpose. Likewise the Sabbath pictures a rest that all those who "keep" the weekly Sabbath fail utterly to understand and fulfill. When people ask me whether I keep the Sabbath, I tell them, "Certainly--every day of the week" (Heb. 4:1-12).
    God be with you,
    Ray



Excerpt from 'Keeping Sabbath' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.0.html):

So this whole thing of coming out of our life - coming out of carnality - coming out of religiosity is like coming out of darkness into the light and that light will give you peace or rest.  You have to rest or cease your works and that is what this verse says, which concludes in Heb. 4:10.   Now let’s look at verse 3.

Heb 4:3  For we who have believed do enter into rest…

There it is.  So right now we do enter into rest.  How do we enter into rest?  By stopping doing our own works, by coming out of the shadow.  Keeping the seventh day is a shadow and you’ve got to come out of that and come into the light of that… the real thing is Christ.
 

Christ of course did good on the Sabbath day although He was criticized for it.  He didn’t break the Sabbath day as some have taught in the pass.  He did not break the Sabbath day, but He certainly started expanding it into the spiritual realm of doing good.  He did good, He didn’t go out and plow with a yoke of oxen.  Of course He didn’t. 
When you enter into rest though, you don’t enter into rest by keeping the Sabbath every week.  You enter into rest by doing what it says in verse 10.

Heb 4:10  For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
                                                                                                               
You cease from doing your work, your religiosity, just like God stopped making the physical universe.  We are now entering into the light, into the spiritual realm.  That is for those who do not have hardened hearts and God gives us these abilities to do this.



Hope this helps,

Marques
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koine480

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Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2009, 10:04:08 AM »



 Yes Marques, It helps a great deal. Your comments too mike. Thank you both for taking time to help me.It is appreciated very much.


                        Ron
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jeetkunejimi

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Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2009, 11:07:24 AM »

For a true Christian everyday is now a sabbath day because everyday one should rest in the Lord. No day should pass without you , thinking of God, praying to God, speaking of God, reading God's word, singing a new song to God and doing Godly things for our fellow creations. That's how I see it anyway, although I'm just a carnal man wrestling with shadows like most of us.
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Join me now in my new massive money making business venture, selling asbestos blankets only on Sundays at the exits of Orthodox churches. It's really gonna take off.

aqrinc

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Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2009, 03:28:50 PM »


Hi Ron,

Here is one of the best SABBATH REST grouping of Scriptures in one chapter.
The highlighted verses are for emphasis on the REST (SABBATH).


Heb 3: 5-19 (GNB)
5  Moses was faithful in God's house as a servant, and he spoke of the things that God would say in the future. 
But Christ is faithful as the Son in charge of God's house. We are his house if we keep up our courage and our confidence in what we hope for.
So then, as the Holy Spirit says, "If you hear God's voice today,
do not be stubborn, as your ancestors were when they rebelled against God, as they were that day in the desert when they put him to the test.
9  There they put me to the test and tried me, says God, although they had seen what I did for forty years.
10  And so I was angry with those people and said, 'They are always disloyal and refuse to obey my commands.'
11  I was angry and made a solemn promise: 'They will never enter the land where I would have given them rest!' "
12  My friends, be careful that none of you have a heart so evil and unbelieving that you will turn away from the living God.
13  Instead, in order that none of you be deceived by sin and become stubborn, you must help one another every day, as long as the word "Today" in the scripture applies to us.
14  For we are all partners with Christ if we hold firmly to the end the confidence we had at the beginning.
15  This is what the scripture says: "If you hear God's voice today, do not be stubborn, as your ancestors were when they rebelled against God."
16  Who were the people who heard God's voice and rebelled against him? All those who were led out of Egypt by Moses.
17  With whom was God angry for forty years? With the people who sinned, who fell down dead in the desert.
18  When God made his solemn promise, "They will never enter the land where I would have given them rest"---of whom was he speaking? Of those who rebelled.
19  We see, then, that they were not able to enter the land, because they did not believe.

Excerpt from: KEEPING SABBATH

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.msg50887.html#msg50887

So “God created the heavens and the earth… all that in them is… for six day”  How long were these six days?  Were they 24 hour periods? 
It was on the seventh day that it said God rested in the King James. 
Was that a 24 hour day?  If it was, why is He STILL CEASING from His work? 
This Scripture says He is. Genesis 2:2 in the Concordant correctly says;

Gen 2:2 And finishing is the Elohim (God), on the sixth day, His work which He does. And ceasing is He on the seventh day from all His work which He does.

So He’s “finishing” it all up in the sixth day and He’s ceasing, that’s the indefinite tense.  He was ceasing, is ceasing and will continue to cease.  It’s not past tense, like most of the Scripture say.  You read those that are aware of this technical difference and you’ll see that it is in the indefinite.  It makes all the difference in the world. 

Somewhere in Romans I used that indefinite to show in Greek it’s called the aorist tense - past, present, future. 
Somebody wrote me an email this week.  He said, ‘I’ve checked dozens of Bibles and I can’t find and I can’t substantiate what you are saying.’ 
Well you go to John 3:16, and you can check all Bibles and I don’t think but one has it “For God thus Loves the world.”  The most known Scripture on earth.  “For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son…”  So did God “so loved the world” and now it’s pass, finished and over with?  He loved it once and now love is gone?  No.  It's loves, it’s the aorist tense.  He loved then, He loves now and He will continue to love.  It’s a big difference, yet you won’t find it in many Bibles. 

But neither the Concordant nor the Rotherham gets this verse right in Exodus, where we are given the commandment to rest on the Sabbath day.  Here it is in the Young’s Literal translation, he’s the only one that follows this very precisely.  “For six days…” notice he takes the ‘in’ out. 

Exo 20:11  for six days hath Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and resteth (rests, aorist tense) in the seventh day; therefore hath Jehovah blessed the Sabbath-day, and doth sanctify it.

So we’re talking Exodus, this is sometimes long after the creation, possibly a couple thousand years after the creation and it says “He rests” not rested. 

People don’t want to be spiritually converted inside, in their heart.  They want to make a show of religion and morality and so on.  That to them is what is important. 

So all of these things, like keeping the seventh day... keeping the Sabbath day holy...  which of course much of the church around the world have changed that to Sunday.  They have the Catholic church to thank for that.
 
A Catholic bishop once said, (I put this in my paper ‘The Origin Of Endless Punishment’)  ‘The Protestant church so prides itself on coming out of Catholicism and rejecting all of their heresy and he says, what are the facts?  The Bible says remember the Sabbath day - the seventh day - Friday sunset to Saturday sunset, the Sabbath day keep it holy.  But the Catholics says no, keep Sunday holy and the whole Protestant world bows in subjection.’ 

See that is where that comes from.  The commandment is for the Sabbath day. 


                    HOW MANY DAYS DO WE ENTER INTO GOD’S REST

So people ask me about everything from circumcision to fasting, Passover, the Lord’s supper, baptism and all these things.  They ask me a lot, ‘do you keep the Sabbath day.’  In other words do I stop working and stop doing everything on Friday night until Sat. night, don’t go anywhere, don’t do anything, just study and pray or whatever and go to church. 
So they say, ‘do you keep the Sabbath?’  I say absolutely, everyday of the week. They don’t know what to make of that.  I keep the Sabbath everyday of the week.  How do I keep the Sabbath everyday of the week?  Because I know what the Sabbath means.  If you know what the Sabbath means, you can not possibly keep it on Saturday only, you can’t.  If you know what it means and you do it on Saturday only, it’s proof that you don’t know what it means.  And I’ll show you that.  If you can’t keep the Sabbath on everyday, then you are not keeping the Sabbath in the spirit of truth at all. 
Further you can’t do any of these things.  We’ll go through these things, the Lord’s supper, communion, what the Catholics call mass and so on. 

george. :)

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mhykx

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Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2009, 09:20:54 PM »

Ron,

Please post more of your concerns regarding Sabbath.  I can see myself in you when I started to receive the knowledge from God concerning God's law, tithing, etc.  Although I already understood that there is no hell, our church teaches total annhiliation to those who are truly evil.  Throught this site, I also got to learn the goodness and greatness of God of saving ALL MEN and the truth about FREE WILL!

Here is another excerpt regarding sabbath keeping.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4974.0.html
(The blue text is Ray's comments)

    How do you spiritualize away the Sabbath?
     
    COMMENT:   I do NOT "spiritual away the Sabbath."  Besides, if something is "spiritualized" it will not go away, seeing that the natural is temporary, but the spiritual is lasting (II Cor. 4:18).
     
    How do you spiritually do all your work in six days and spiritually rest on the seventh?
     
    COMMENT:  Your statements proves that you do not understand the "spiritual rest" of the Sabbath day at all. The Sabbath pictures rest (actually and literally to "stop working").  What good is the physical sabbath for people who NEVER stop working. Not only do they do their "works of the law" during the week, but they actually do their "works of the law" on the Sabbath which pictures them STOPPING THEIR OWN WORKS!  When you do you "work of the law" by KEEPING the physical Sabbath, you BREAK the spirit of the Sabbath which is to STOP YOUR WORKING AND LET GOD WORK IN YOU.
    Therefore, when people as me if I keep the Sabbath I always answer by saying, "YES, EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK." As long as you are doing YOUR work on the Sabbath, you will never "ENTER INTO GOD'S REST" (Heb. 4).

    I believe the LUNAR SABBATH should be kept.

    COMMENT:  You are not alone, Johan. Paul had many people who rejected the Gospel by being the same thing: "Ye observe days and months [month means MOON], and times, and years (Gal. 4:10).  Paul could no more persuade them in his day to give up the physical and obey the spiritual (John 6:63), than I am able today. If people can't DO SOMETHING PHYSICAL THEY DON'T FEEL SPIRITUAL.  That's just the way it is.  "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the NEW MOON [as you are now trying to instruct me as necessary], or of the SABBATH DAYS [as you are also accusing me of 'spiritualizing away the Sabbath']" (Col. 2:16).

Keep posting, Ron!

Your brother in Christ,
Mike
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2009, 12:37:06 AM »

Since you gave your 'disclaimers', I'll give one too.   :D  I'm not trying to show you anything, just continuing in conversation.  I think answers will come with a fuller and deeper understanding of what Ray teaches.

OK, so I'm a TV Baby.  Remember The Walton's?  Wholesome family entertainment, based on biography.  Mrs. Walton--the mother and grandmother--were all about church and believed in going and 'forcing' the kids.  Mr. Walton--the father and grandfather--mostly just failed to see the point of it all, and held to their beliefs in a more private way.  Maybe John Walton senior and Grandpa knew what we know.  Maybe not.  But I remember as a kid (a pretty good Christian kid) feeling so bad for them because they just could not accept that church was good--I probably at least in that hour of fantasy--'prayed' for their souls although I really didn't think they deserved to burn in Hell for not going to church. 

When I think of that now, some things are different.  I believe (know) now that The Walton men were on to something--maybe they had at least an inkling of the spiritual sabbath.  At the least they had a better understanding of the ultimate emptiness of religion, and nothing but nothing was going to make them a part of it.  I suppose that was the main 'issue' in their home, yet they managed to love one another.  To me, that's a good model. 

I guess it's easy for me to say, being unmarried and not really responsible for anyone other than myself.  And I just can't help it--I'm a TV kid and that's how I 'imagine' those of my brothers and sisters on the forum who's spouses are not yet 'seeing'.  It WAS based on 'fact', after all. 

To my mind, the churches are only good for two broad groups of people--babies not strong enough to live in/resist this world without help, and the carnally minded (from sincere 'sabbath keepers' to wolves and charlatans).  It's central to the Gospel of the Kingdom that they flourish so that God can call out His people from among them. 

Ok.  Done.  Carry on.   :D   
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

E. Woods

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Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2009, 01:24:04 PM »


    I'm still new to posting here and a little reluctant I guess to throw my thoughts out there for your critique. However, it is because of the respect that I have for your opinions that I would like to hear your thoughts and input on this. Hopefully, I won't violate any forum rules. At least I do not intend too!
   
   OK, enough of the disclaimers. In Exodus 20:1-17 God gave to the Hebrews his initial set of "rules to live by", better known to us as the "Ten Commandments". I understand and agree that we are no longer under law but under grace,yet, God does not change. The basic principals of these laws are as binding on the christian as they were on the Hebrews. They are after all, it seems to me, the basis of love and honor. I do not think anyone would break one of these laws and not feel that he had sinned.

   This brings me to my question. If you accept the primise that the intent of these laws are still to be obeyed, what about the fourth commandment? It is specifically stated that we are to " Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy". It is the only commandment that is ignored or discounted as meaningless to us as Christians yet, the other nine, are looked at as binding principles. Why?

        I don't find any evidence that Paul or the other apostles willingly violated the sabbath or failed to observe it. Paul kept god's "appointed times" to the best of his ability after his conversion. He realized,I think, that as a Pharisee he had placed the "traditions of men" given in the oral law above Gods law and it caused him great regret. However, where did he teach that the principles of the ten commandments were not to be observed?

   13 But  we ought always to give thanks to God for you,  brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you  as the firstfruits   to be saved,  through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through  our gospel,  so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers,  stand firm and hold to  the traditions that you were taught by us, either  by our spoken word or by  our letter.
2 Thess 2:13-15 (ESV)

   I have read a great deal of Ray's writings and a couple things he wrote about the sabbath, but I am far from having a complete knowledge or grasp of all his teaching. Believe me I'm working on it! He is such a prolific writer and such a great teacher that I may be traveling a well trod path and just don't know it. I humbly and sincerely would like to see any comments you all might have on this. These are honest questions that I have been chewing on a long time and I have finally found a place where I'm not afraid to ask them. God bless you all. Thank you God for L. Ray Smith.

   Grace and Peace to you all,

   Ron M.   
     

Hello Ron.
   I keep the Sabbath. Ray said there is nothing wrong with that if you want to.
In my opinion, it is impossible for someone to keep the Sabbath every day of the
week.  God Blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and He sanctified if ( set apart from the rest )
If a person goes to church on any other day af the week, They are not keeping
the day God set apart.   He did not say go to church on His Sabath, He said ( DO NO
WORK ) on  THAT DAY,  A person does not keep a day holy by working on that day.

I Believe a person should ( work out your own salvation with fear and trembling: ) Phil.2:12
 Have a
GREAT DAY.   
  Earl   
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2009, 02:05:15 PM »


    I'm still new to posting here and a little reluctant I guess to throw my thoughts out there for your critique. However, it is because of the respect that I have for your opinions that I would like to hear your thoughts and input on this. Hopefully, I won't violate any forum rules. At least I do not intend too!
   
   OK, enough of the disclaimers. In Exodus 20:1-17 God gave to the Hebrews his initial set of "rules to live by", better known to us as the "Ten Commandments". I understand and agree that we are no longer under law but under grace,yet, God does not change. The basic principals of these laws are as binding on the christian as they were on the Hebrews. They are after all, it seems to me, the basis of love and honor. I do not think anyone would break one of these laws and not feel that he had sinned.

   This brings me to my question. If you accept the primise that the intent of these laws are still to be obeyed, what about the fourth commandment? It is specifically stated that we are to " Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy". It is the only commandment that is ignored or discounted as meaningless to us as Christians yet, the other nine, are looked at as binding principles. Why?

        I don't find any evidence that Paul or the other apostles willingly violated the sabbath or failed to observe it. Paul kept god's "appointed times" to the best of his ability after his conversion. He realized,I think, that as a Pharisee he had placed the "traditions of men" given in the oral law above Gods law and it caused him great regret. However, where did he teach that the principles of the ten commandments were not to be observed?

   13 But  we ought always to give thanks to God for you,  brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you  as the firstfruits   to be saved,  through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through  our gospel,  so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers,  stand firm and hold to  the traditions that you were taught by us, either  by our spoken word or by  our letter.
2 Thess 2:13-15 (ESV)

   I have read a great deal of Ray's writings and a couple things he wrote about the sabbath, but I am far from having a complete knowledge or grasp of all his teaching. Believe me I'm working on it! He is such a prolific writer and such a great teacher that I may be traveling a well trod path and just don't know it. I humbly and sincerely would like to see any comments you all might have on this. These are honest questions that I have been chewing on a long time and I have finally found a place where I'm not afraid to ask them. God bless you all. Thank you God for L. Ray Smith.

   Grace and Peace to you all,

   Ron M.   
     

Hello Ron.
   I keep the Sabbath. Ray said there is nothing wrong with that if you want to.
In my opinion, it is impossible for someone to keep the Sabbath every day of the
week.  God Blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and He sanctified if ( set apart from the rest )
If a person goes to church on any other day af the week, They are not keeping
the day God set apart.   He did not say go to church on His Sabath, He said ( DO NO
WORK ) on  THAT DAY,  A person does not keep a day holy by working on that day.

I Believe a person should ( work out your own salvation with fear and trembling: ) Phil.2:12
 Have a
GREAT DAY.   
  Earl   

Quote
If a person goes to church on any other day af the week, They are not keeping
the day God set apart.   He did not say go to church on His Sabath, He said ( DO NO
WORK ) on  THAT DAY,  A person does not keep a day holy by working on that day.



Hello Earl,

   I believe you are confused as to what Ray teaches on the subject of the Sabbath.

    The Sabbath is all about the Spirit(Light),not the flesh(shadows).

                                  KEEPING  SABBATH

    (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.0.html):


Quote
I keep the Sabbath. Ray said there is nothing wrong with that if you want to.



An excerpt from the paper.



That’s why people get angry with us at Bible Truths.  Because we are trying to throw away the religious junk.  At least to the degree that it needs to be thrown away.  Some of it doesn’t need to be thrown away.  You just have to come out of the shadow and go into the light. 

The shadow is not evil.  The shadow has it’s place.  But YOU could be evil if you remain in the shadow, when you are told to come into the light.  See you could be evil.  The shadow is not evil, the law is not evil. 
Paul says, what then is the law sin?  God forbid.  He says, I wouldn’t have known sin but by the law (Rom. 7:7).  In verse 7 the law says I should not covet.  But now in verse 14 For we know that the law is spiritual…  Paul says, I wouldn’t have know that unless the law said it. 
But that tenth commandment, Paul says that showed me that the law is spiritual.  He didn’t say that the tenth commandment said that you should not covet, therefore we conclude that the tenth commandment is spiritual.  No.  By the tenth commandment he came to understand that the law, the whole ten commandments is spiritual.  That includes the Sabbath day, it’s spiritual.

I’m not going to condemn anybody who washes feet or takes a wafer and wine or who keeps the seventh day.  Or for paying tithes to their church or who goes to church or goes Wed. night, what they call worship services.  I don’t condemn anyone for doing those. 

I’m trying to teach those that God is trying to bring into the light, that’s all.  I’m not condemning the shadow, nor am I condemning the people that are still living in the shadow.  I’m just saying that God is showing these things and it is time to come into the light.  Because that’s where it’s at.




Peace...Mark


   
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 06:00:28 PM by Marky Mark »
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2009, 02:20:59 PM »

 
Hello Ron.
   I keep the Sabbath. Ray said there is nothing wrong with that if you want to.
In my opinion, it is impossible for someone to keep the Sabbath every day of the
week.  God Blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and He sanctified if ( set apart from the rest )
If a person goes to church on any other day af the week, They are not keeping
the day God set apart.   He did not say go to church on His Sabath, He said ( DO NO
WORK ) on  THAT DAY,  A person does not keep a day holy by working on that day.

I Believe a person should ( work out your own salvation with fear and trembling: ) Phil.2:12
 Have a
GREAT DAY.  
  Earl  

Quote
I keep the Sabbath. Ray said there is nothing wrong with that if you want to.
In my opinion, it is impossible for someone to keep the Sabbath every day of the
week.

Hi Earl,

Ray does explain in quite detailed fashion in the paper below, what you are using is a half quote that is incorrect.

Excerpt from: Keeping SABBATH: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.msg50887.html#msg50887
 
HOW MANY DAYS DO WE ENTER INTO GOD’S REST

So people ask me about everything from circumcision to fasting, Passover, the Lord’s supper, baptism and all these things.  They ask me a lot, ‘do you keep the Sabbath day.’  In other words do I stop working and stop doing everything on Friday night until Sat. night, don’t go anywhere, don’t do anything, just study and pray or whatever and go to church. 
So they say, ‘do you keep the Sabbath?’  I say absolutely, everyday of the week. They don’t know what to make of that.  I keep the Sabbath everyday of the week.  How do I keep the Sabbath everyday of the week?  Because I know what the Sabbath means.  If you know what the Sabbath means, you can not possibly keep it on Saturday only, you can’t.  If you know what it means and you do it on Saturday only, it’s proof that you don’t know what it means.  And I’ll show you that.  If you can’t keep the Sabbath on everyday, then you are not keeping the Sabbath in the spirit of truth at all. 
Further you can’t do any of these things.  We’ll go through these things, the Lord’s supper, communion, what the Catholics call mass and so on. 

I made a list of physical rituals that carnal-minded Christians like to do, according to their faith.  Well depending on which religion, but sooner or later everybody does some of this.  The physical letter of the law can, in fact, deceive you. 
Tithing - pseudo tithing
Religious pilgrimages
Circumcision
Holy Day observance
Clean and unclean foods
Prayer cloths
Foot-washing
Fasting
Alter calls
Water baptism
Making vows
Anointing oil
Burning incense
Doing penance
Speaking in gibberish
Lighting candles
Pictures
Icons
Idols
Holy water
Holy smoke
Confession
Last rights
Sign of the cross
Rosary beads
Wearing phylacteries
The Lord’s Supper
Sabbath keeping
New moons
Prayer wheels
Religious junk


Quote
I Believe a person should ( work out your own salvation with fear and trembling: ) Phil.2:12

You have to read both verses and understand all the words or it gets really confusing.

Php 2:12 
So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out,

Php 2:13 
for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Note: It is a comma not a period between verse 12 and verse 13.

george :)

« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 10:43:52 PM by aqr »
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mhykx

  • Guest
Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2009, 09:49:59 PM »


Hello Ron.
   I keep the Sabbath. Ray said there is nothing wrong with that if you want to.
In my opinion, it is impossible for someone to keep the Sabbath every day of the
week.  God Blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and He sanctified if ( set apart from the rest )
If a person goes to church on any other day af the week, They are not keeping
the day God set apart.   He did not say go to church on His Sabath, He said ( DO NO
WORK ) on  THAT DAY,  A person does not keep a day holy by working on that day.

I Believe a person should ( work out your own salvation with fear and trembling: ) Phil.2:12
 Have a
GREAT DAY.   
  Earl   

Hi Earl,

Technically, since I do not work (i.e. I don't go to office to work) from Friday night to Saturday night, I am also "observing" the sabbath.  But here is a thing.  This "do not do any work" in the seventh day, physically speaking, is being debated even among sabbath keeping believers.  You might already have encountered such debate, but for discussion purposes, allow me to inject some of the issues.

1.  Do you buy (any commercial merchandise) during the Sabbath?  If you do, you break the Sabbath.
2.  Do you watch TV for entertainment during the Sabbath?  If you do, you break the Sabbath.
3.  Do you allow your kids to go to school, or even do their assignments, on Sabbath?  If you do, you break the Sabbath.
4.  Do you let your wife do heavy household work, like clothes washing, ironing during the Sabbath?  If you do, you break the Sabbath.
5.  Do you work (litereally work, i.e. you don't idle yourself) from Sunday to Monday?  If you don't, you break the Sabbath.

I can go on the list.  But I think you already get the point.

God does want us indeed to enter into his rest.  Not the physical rest but the Spiritual rest.
God is resting on the seventh day and He wants us to rest also on that day......and you know what?  That day is today!  :)

These two great articles will help.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.0.html Keeping the Sabbath
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm - The Sermon on the Mount is for You

You have a great day today!

-Mike

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Ocean

  • Guest
Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2009, 06:07:06 PM »

HI All,

Since coming to BT in January, it was my heartfelt prayer that God show me whether i should go back to church or not. My husband still lives the 'worldly' life so he opts to cook on sundays while my son & i attend church. Now i've opted to stay back and help him [he's not complaining either] but my in-laws strongly think my son is missing out on his spiritual learning.

But here's the irony. I grew up in a family that rarely went to church since both parents were working. Sunday was always a family day where we all rested. My parents and older brother would occasionally debate certain biblical issues [in a good way]....my interest was far from it. I am blessed to have had parents who were ideal role models of stability, hard work and family focused.

On the other hand, my husband grew up going to church twice on Sundays until he got married....27 yrs,lol!! In the islands it is a cardinal SIN if you don't wear white clothes and attend am/pm services.....the village will ostracize you.YET!! I have witnessed strife, alcoholism & cursing in his family.

I've come to realize that 'God does not dwell in buildings made by man'. And 'He who has began a good work in you will see it to completion'....no man or institution can mediate that...Jesus IS our Mediator.

For me, at the end of each working day, nothing pleases me more than my quite time in the Word & Ray's teachings. Should i be too tired than i dose off 'speaking to Him' about everything and anything. If that is sabbath than that's how i observe it....no routine or rituals.

Cheers,
Ocean
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Robin

  • Guest
Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2009, 06:18:42 PM »

Romans 8:2-4
2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Hebrews 8
The High Priest of a New Covenant
 1The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man.
 3Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already men who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain." 6But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

 7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said:
   "The time is coming, declares the Lord,
      when I will make a new covenant
   with the house of Israel
      and with the house of Judah.
 9It will not be like the covenant
      I made with their forefathers
   when I took them by the hand
      to lead them out of Egypt,
   because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
      and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
 10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
      after that time, declares the Lord.
   I will put my laws in their minds
      and write them on their hearts.
   I will be their God,
      and they will be my people.
 
11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
      or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
   because they will all know me,
      from the least of them to the greatest.
 12For I will forgive their wickedness
      and will remember their sins no more."

 13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 06:21:56 PM by M.G. »
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2009, 06:40:49 PM »

We need to read all the words there too. The New Covenant; is what is New not The Law; The Law Is Spiritual and never Changes.

The Old Covenant was with physical man needed to be changed (Types and Shadows) to really show the gulf between GOD and man. Israel (man) had to keep their part to earn the Promised Land.

The New Covenant Is Spiritual; GOD Keeps It in us:


Heb: 8: 10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 

george. :)

  
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 06:46:35 PM by aqr »
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E. Woods

  • Guest
Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2009, 06:48:50 PM »

 
Hello Ron.
   I keep the Sabbath. Ray said there is nothing wrong with that if you want to.
In my opinion, it is impossible for someone to keep the Sabbath every day of the
week.  God Blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and He sanctified if ( set apart from the rest )
If a person goes to church on any other day af the week, They are not keeping
the day God set apart.   He did not say go to church on His Sabath, He said ( DO NO
WORK ) on  THAT DAY,  A person does not keep a day holy by working on that day.

I Believe a person should ( work out your own salvation with fear and trembling: ) Phil.2:12
 Have a
GREAT DAY.  
  Earl  

Quote
I keep the Sabbath. Ray said there is nothing wrong with that if you want to.
In my opinion, it is impossible for someone to keep the Sabbath every day of the
week.

Hi Earl,

Ray does explain in quite detailed fashion in the paper below, what you are using is a half quote that is incorrect.

Excerpt from: Keeping SABBATH: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.msg50887.html#msg50887
 
HOW MANY DAYS DO WE ENTER INTO GOD’S REST

So people ask me about everything from circumcision to fasting, Passover, the Lord’s supper, baptism and all these things.  They ask me a lot, ‘do you keep the Sabbath day.’  In other words do I stop working and stop doing everything on Friday night until Sat. night, don’t go anywhere, don’t do anything, just study and pray or whatever and go to church. 
So they say, ‘do you keep the Sabbath?’  I say absolutely, everyday of the week. They don’t know what to make of that.  I keep the Sabbath everyday of the week.  How do I keep the Sabbath everyday of the week?  Because I know what the Sabbath means.  If you know what the Sabbath means, you can not possibly keep it on Saturday only, you can’t.  If you know what it means and you do it on Saturday only, it’s proof that you don’t know what it means.  And I’ll show you that.  If you can’t keep the Sabbath on everyday, then you are not keeping the Sabbath in the spirit of truth at all. 
Further you can’t do any of these things.  We’ll go through these things, the Lord’s supper, communion, what the Catholics call mass and so on. 

I made a list of physical rituals that carnal-minded Christians like to do, according to their faith.  Well depending on which religion, but sooner or later everybody does some of this.  The physical letter of the law can, in fact, deceive you. 
Tithing - pseudo tithing
Religious pilgrimages
Circumcision
Holy Day observance
Clean and unclean foods
Prayer cloths
Foot-washing
Fasting
Alter calls
Water baptism
Making vows
Anointing oil
Burning incense
Doing penance
Speaking in gibberish
Lighting candles
Pictures
Icons
Idols
Holy water
Holy smoke
Confession
Last rights
Sign of the cross
Rosary beads
Wearing phylacteries
The Lord’s Supper
Sabbath keeping
New moons
Prayer wheels
Religious junk


Quote
I Believe a person should ( work out your own salvation with fear and trembling: ) Phil.2:12

You have to read both verses and understand all the words or it gets really confusing.

Php 2:12 
So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out,

Php 2:13 
for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Note: verse 12 aIt is a comma not a period between nd verse 13.

george :)

   Helllo George.

   I, like Ray, don't condemn anyone, Catholic or other, for what they believe or how
they worship.
   and I would be very afraid of Gods' wrath if told someone they didn't have to keep
God's Commandments.

   It looks like you want to argue over comma's and periods.  I would like for you to
go to Ray's e-mails. and look at the one that says, (What is true Godly worship.)
He replyed to a person named Barry. and said,  " Why didn't Paul worshiop in the
Temple or in the synagogues or in the city."    NOTICE VERSE 12  there is no comma
or period, from ,  "And they neither found me in the Temple disputing with any one
nor inciting the crowd," does that verse say he didn't go into a Temple or Synagogue?
   NO,   Did Paul go into the Synagogue on the Sabbath to worship?  YES. 
Look at Acts 17:2  Then Paul  AS HIS CUSTOM WAS went in to then, and for three
Sabbaths reasoned with them from the scriptures.  Also.  Acts 18:4  " And he reasoned
in the Synagogue EVERY SABBATH.
   
So much for your comma's and periods.   Earl 



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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: The Ten Commandments
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2009, 07:02:35 PM »

I'm locking this thread now as it is becoming a debate on keeping the Sabbath.

Excerpt from 'Please read this before joining and posting' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html):

If you are considering joining this forum before reading and studying  www.bible-truths.com, please reconsider.
It would be beneficial to all involved if you take the time to familiarize yourself with the teaching of L.Ray Smith first.

This is not the place to decide if you agree with the teaching of L.Ray Smith, but a place you can retreat to when you do.

This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com.


Ray has an entire bible study on the Sabbath...if one doesn't agree, this is not the outlet for that.


Marques

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