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The Ten Commandments
koine480:
I'm still new to posting here and a little reluctant I guess to throw my thoughts out there for your critique. However, it is because of the respect that I have for your opinions that I would like to hear your thoughts and input on this. Hopefully, I won't violate any forum rules. At least I do not intend too!
OK, enough of the disclaimers. In Exodus 20:1-17 God gave to the Hebrews his initial set of "rules to live by", better known to us as the "Ten Commandments". I understand and agree that we are no longer under law but under grace,yet, God does not change. The basic principals of these laws are as binding on the christian as they were on the Hebrews. They are after all, it seems to me, the basis of love and honor. I do not think anyone would break one of these laws and not feel that he had sinned.
This brings me to my question. If you accept the primise that the intent of these laws are still to be obeyed, what about the fourth commandment? It is specifically stated that we are to " Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy". It is the only commandment that is ignored or discounted as meaningless to us as Christians yet, the other nine, are looked at as binding principles. Why?
I don't find any evidence that Paul or the other apostles willingly violated the sabbath or failed to observe it. Paul kept god's "appointed times" to the best of his ability after his conversion. He realized,I think, that as a Pharisee he had placed the "traditions of men" given in the oral law above Gods law and it caused him great regret. However, where did he teach that the principles of the ten commandments were not to be observed?
13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
2 Thess 2:13-15 (ESV)
I have read a great deal of Ray's writings and a couple things he wrote about the sabbath, but I am far from having a complete knowledge or grasp of all his teaching. Believe me I'm working on it! He is such a prolific writer and such a great teacher that I may be traveling a well trod path and just don't know it. I humbly and sincerely would like to see any comments you all might have on this. These are honest questions that I have been chewing on a long time and I have finally found a place where I'm not afraid to ask them. God bless you all. Thank you God for L. Ray Smith.
Grace and Peace to you all,
Ron M.
mhykx:
Hi Ron,
Before I was converted, I was a member a Sabbath-keeping church, Living Church of God (one of the splinters of Worldwide Church of God [WWCG]; and did you know that Ray was a former WWCG member?). In LCG, or in any off-shoots of WWCG, keeping the Ten Commandments is "all that matters" (if I may borrow the words my pastor told me when I handed him my reason of living the church). For him, and I guess for all the members, you obey the Ten Commandments or you won't be in the kingdom of God. But the question is how do we obey the commandments of God? Who is doing the work?
Have you read the following available articles here? They have the answers to your questions.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.0.html – Keeping the Sabbath
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm - The Sermon on the Mount is for You
I’m not in a position to teach for I’m still quite new in the faith. But I will follow this thread and will give bits of my testimony as our B-T “elders” expound what is explained in the above articles.
Hang on for answers.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike
mharrell08:
Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2425.0.html):
Dear Christopher:
I don't know of anywhere that it says "we are no longer keeping the Sabbath."
God be with you,
Ray
PS Of course I don't know where it says that "we are no longer keeping the
law of wearing mixed fabrics" either. I personally keep God's Sabbath day of rest,
EVERY DAY.
Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2584.0.html):
Dear Melissa:
Many people as me if I keep the seventh day sabbath of rest? And I tell them all the same thing: Yes, of couurse, I keep it every day.
The physical weekly day of physical rest of the 4th commandment is for those who have not yet learned that what this day and commandment pictures is entering into the Rest of our Lord, which is something we keep every day of our life. One cannot both keep the physical day of rest and also be observing God's spiritual Rest, which covers every day of the week. Once God taught His people what Circumcision stood for a picture in the spirit, Paul taught to NOT be physically circumcised any longer. In fact, if one is physically circumcised as a work of salvation, HE FALLS FROM GRACE! (Gal. 5:1-4).
God be with you,
Ray
Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2621.0.html):
Dear Michael:
Yes, of course the Sabbath Command has great importance and significance to those who understand it. It PICTURES something. What it pictures is a totaly mystery to the Church, however, or they would not "keep" the Sabbath every seventh day, they would keep it EVERY DAY.
Circumcision PICTURED something also, but as the Church nor the Jews really understand what it pictures, they continue to circumcise FOR RELIGIOUS purposes whereas Paul said that if one circumcises for religious purposes, he falls from grace. Wow, imagine that. Falling from grace for obeying God's commandments? "O that there were such an HEART IN THEM!"
If the actual ritual of cutting off the foreskin accomplished something spiritually, then God should have had all men wait until they were 20 years old before being circumcised. Yikes! And if the foreskin were such that it grew back every month, I guess to obey this commandment one would have to be circumcised every month. An eight day old baby hard knows that circumcision pictures, yet that is when it was done. It is the adults who are supposed to know what it stands for, but they don't. In the same way most Sabbath keepers have not a clue what they are doing. They think that "keeping" the Sabbath accomplishes something spiritual just as circumcision an eight day old baby accomplishes something spiritual--IT DOES NOT.
I will explain this further when I write my own Law Paper. I'll give you a hint: The law [of Moses] IS SPIRITUAL (Rom. 7:14).
God be with you,
Ray
Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3518.0.html):
Dear Brandon:
The Sabbath and the Old Testament Law is way way too big a subject for an email.
It is quite involved. Much of it will be explained in my upcoming Installment of my "HELL"
series, Part D. We are NOT TO MURDER. So we are to keep the commandments of Moses.
But we are NOT UNDER THE LAW of Moses. So what does that mean? All physical types
and rituals have a spiritual purpose. Circumcision was not designed by God for the purpose of
making a man's penis shorter! It is a symbol of cutting off the flesh, the carnal mind of our heart. It has a spiritual purpose. Likewise the Sabbath pictures a rest that all those who "keep" the weekly Sabbath fail utterly to understand and fulfill. When people ask me whether I keep the Sabbath, I tell them, "Certainly--every day of the week" (Heb. 4:1-12).
God be with you,
Ray
Excerpt from 'Keeping Sabbath' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.0.html):
So this whole thing of coming out of our life - coming out of carnality - coming out of religiosity is like coming out of darkness into the light and that light will give you peace or rest. You have to rest or cease your works and that is what this verse says, which concludes in Heb. 4:10. Now let’s look at verse 3.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into rest…
There it is. So right now we do enter into rest. How do we enter into rest? By stopping doing our own works, by coming out of the shadow. Keeping the seventh day is a shadow and you’ve got to come out of that and come into the light of that… the real thing is Christ.
Christ of course did good on the Sabbath day although He was criticized for it. He didn’t break the Sabbath day as some have taught in the pass. He did not break the Sabbath day, but He certainly started expanding it into the spiritual realm of doing good. He did good, He didn’t go out and plow with a yoke of oxen. Of course He didn’t.
When you enter into rest though, you don’t enter into rest by keeping the Sabbath every week. You enter into rest by doing what it says in verse 10.
Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
You cease from doing your work, your religiosity, just like God stopped making the physical universe. We are now entering into the light, into the spiritual realm. That is for those who do not have hardened hearts and God gives us these abilities to do this.
Hope this helps,
Marques
koine480:
Yes Marques, It helps a great deal. Your comments too mike. Thank you both for taking time to help me.It is appreciated very much.
Ron
jeetkunejimi:
For a true Christian everyday is now a sabbath day because everyday one should rest in the Lord. No day should pass without you , thinking of God, praying to God, speaking of God, reading God's word, singing a new song to God and doing Godly things for our fellow creations. That's how I see it anyway, although I'm just a carnal man wrestling with shadows like most of us.
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