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The Ten Commandments
aqrinc:
Hi Ron,
Here is one of the best SABBATH REST grouping of Scriptures in one chapter.
The highlighted verses are for emphasis on the REST (SABBATH).
Heb 3: 5-19 (GNB)
5 Moses was faithful in God's house as a servant, and he spoke of the things that God would say in the future.
6 But Christ is faithful as the Son in charge of God's house. We are his house if we keep up our courage and our confidence in what we hope for.
7 So then, as the Holy Spirit says, "If you hear God's voice today,
8 do not be stubborn, as your ancestors were when they rebelled against God, as they were that day in the desert when they put him to the test.
9 There they put me to the test and tried me, says God, although they had seen what I did for forty years.
10 And so I was angry with those people and said, 'They are always disloyal and refuse to obey my commands.'
11 I was angry and made a solemn promise: 'They will never enter the land where I would have given them rest!' "
12 My friends, be careful that none of you have a heart so evil and unbelieving that you will turn away from the living God.
13 Instead, in order that none of you be deceived by sin and become stubborn, you must help one another every day, as long as the word "Today" in the scripture applies to us.
14 For we are all partners with Christ if we hold firmly to the end the confidence we had at the beginning.
15 This is what the scripture says: "If you hear God's voice today, do not be stubborn, as your ancestors were when they rebelled against God."
16 Who were the people who heard God's voice and rebelled against him? All those who were led out of Egypt by Moses.
17 With whom was God angry for forty years? With the people who sinned, who fell down dead in the desert.
18 When God made his solemn promise, "They will never enter the land where I would have given them rest"---of whom was he speaking? Of those who rebelled.
19 We see, then, that they were not able to enter the land, because they did not believe.
Excerpt from: KEEPING SABBATH
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.msg50887.html#msg50887
So “God created the heavens and the earth… all that in them is… for six day” How long were these six days? Were they 24 hour periods?
It was on the seventh day that it said God rested in the King James.
Was that a 24 hour day? If it was, why is He STILL CEASING from His work?
This Scripture says He is. Genesis 2:2 in the Concordant correctly says;
Gen 2:2 And finishing is the Elohim (God), on the sixth day, His work which He does. And ceasing is He on the seventh day from all His work which He does.
So He’s “finishing” it all up in the sixth day and He’s ceasing, that’s the indefinite tense. He was ceasing, is ceasing and will continue to cease. It’s not past tense, like most of the Scripture say. You read those that are aware of this technical difference and you’ll see that it is in the indefinite. It makes all the difference in the world.
Somewhere in Romans I used that indefinite to show in Greek it’s called the aorist tense - past, present, future.
Somebody wrote me an email this week. He said, ‘I’ve checked dozens of Bibles and I can’t find and I can’t substantiate what you are saying.’
Well you go to John 3:16, and you can check all Bibles and I don’t think but one has it “For God thus Loves the world.” The most known Scripture on earth. “For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son…” So did God “so loved the world” and now it’s pass, finished and over with? He loved it once and now love is gone? No. It's loves, it’s the aorist tense. He loved then, He loves now and He will continue to love. It’s a big difference, yet you won’t find it in many Bibles.
But neither the Concordant nor the Rotherham gets this verse right in Exodus, where we are given the commandment to rest on the Sabbath day. Here it is in the Young’s Literal translation, he’s the only one that follows this very precisely. “For six days…” notice he takes the ‘in’ out.
Exo 20:11 for six days hath Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and resteth (rests, aorist tense) in the seventh day; therefore hath Jehovah blessed the Sabbath-day, and doth sanctify it.
So we’re talking Exodus, this is sometimes long after the creation, possibly a couple thousand years after the creation and it says “He rests” not rested.
People don’t want to be spiritually converted inside, in their heart. They want to make a show of religion and morality and so on. That to them is what is important.
So all of these things, like keeping the seventh day... keeping the Sabbath day holy... which of course much of the church around the world have changed that to Sunday. They have the Catholic church to thank for that.
A Catholic bishop once said, (I put this in my paper ‘The Origin Of Endless Punishment’) ‘The Protestant church so prides itself on coming out of Catholicism and rejecting all of their heresy and he says, what are the facts? The Bible says remember the Sabbath day - the seventh day - Friday sunset to Saturday sunset, the Sabbath day keep it holy. But the Catholics says no, keep Sunday holy and the whole Protestant world bows in subjection.’
See that is where that comes from. The commandment is for the Sabbath day.
HOW MANY DAYS DO WE ENTER INTO GOD’S REST
So people ask me about everything from circumcision to fasting, Passover, the Lord’s supper, baptism and all these things. They ask me a lot, ‘do you keep the Sabbath day.’ In other words do I stop working and stop doing everything on Friday night until Sat. night, don’t go anywhere, don’t do anything, just study and pray or whatever and go to church.
So they say, ‘do you keep the Sabbath?’ I say absolutely, everyday of the week. They don’t know what to make of that. I keep the Sabbath everyday of the week. How do I keep the Sabbath everyday of the week? Because I know what the Sabbath means. If you know what the Sabbath means, you can not possibly keep it on Saturday only, you can’t. If you know what it means and you do it on Saturday only, it’s proof that you don’t know what it means. And I’ll show you that. If you can’t keep the Sabbath on everyday, then you are not keeping the Sabbath in the spirit of truth at all.
Further you can’t do any of these things. We’ll go through these things, the Lord’s supper, communion, what the Catholics call mass and so on.
george. :)
mhykx:
Ron,
Please post more of your concerns regarding Sabbath. I can see myself in you when I started to receive the knowledge from God concerning God's law, tithing, etc. Although I already understood that there is no hell, our church teaches total annhiliation to those who are truly evil. Throught this site, I also got to learn the goodness and greatness of God of saving ALL MEN and the truth about FREE WILL!
Here is another excerpt regarding sabbath keeping.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4974.0.html
(The blue text is Ray's comments)
How do you spiritualize away the Sabbath?
COMMENT: I do NOT "spiritual away the Sabbath." Besides, if something is "spiritualized" it will not go away, seeing that the natural is temporary, but the spiritual is lasting (II Cor. 4:18).
How do you spiritually do all your work in six days and spiritually rest on the seventh?
COMMENT: Your statements proves that you do not understand the "spiritual rest" of the Sabbath day at all. The Sabbath pictures rest (actually and literally to "stop working"). What good is the physical sabbath for people who NEVER stop working. Not only do they do their "works of the law" during the week, but they actually do their "works of the law" on the Sabbath which pictures them STOPPING THEIR OWN WORKS! When you do you "work of the law" by KEEPING the physical Sabbath, you BREAK the spirit of the Sabbath which is to STOP YOUR WORKING AND LET GOD WORK IN YOU.
Therefore, when people as me if I keep the Sabbath I always answer by saying, "YES, EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK." As long as you are doing YOUR work on the Sabbath, you will never "ENTER INTO GOD'S REST" (Heb. 4).
I believe the LUNAR SABBATH should be kept.
COMMENT: You are not alone, Johan. Paul had many people who rejected the Gospel by being the same thing: "Ye observe days and months [month means MOON], and times, and years (Gal. 4:10). Paul could no more persuade them in his day to give up the physical and obey the spiritual (John 6:63), than I am able today. If people can't DO SOMETHING PHYSICAL THEY DON'T FEEL SPIRITUAL. That's just the way it is. "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the NEW MOON [as you are now trying to instruct me as necessary], or of the SABBATH DAYS [as you are also accusing me of 'spiritualizing away the Sabbath']" (Col. 2:16).
Keep posting, Ron!
Your brother in Christ,
Mike
Dave in Tenn:
Since you gave your 'disclaimers', I'll give one too. :D I'm not trying to show you anything, just continuing in conversation. I think answers will come with a fuller and deeper understanding of what Ray teaches.
OK, so I'm a TV Baby. Remember The Walton's? Wholesome family entertainment, based on biography. Mrs. Walton--the mother and grandmother--were all about church and believed in going and 'forcing' the kids. Mr. Walton--the father and grandfather--mostly just failed to see the point of it all, and held to their beliefs in a more private way. Maybe John Walton senior and Grandpa knew what we know. Maybe not. But I remember as a kid (a pretty good Christian kid) feeling so bad for them because they just could not accept that church was good--I probably at least in that hour of fantasy--'prayed' for their souls although I really didn't think they deserved to burn in Hell for not going to church.
When I think of that now, some things are different. I believe (know) now that The Walton men were on to something--maybe they had at least an inkling of the spiritual sabbath. At the least they had a better understanding of the ultimate emptiness of religion, and nothing but nothing was going to make them a part of it. I suppose that was the main 'issue' in their home, yet they managed to love one another. To me, that's a good model.
I guess it's easy for me to say, being unmarried and not really responsible for anyone other than myself. And I just can't help it--I'm a TV kid and that's how I 'imagine' those of my brothers and sisters on the forum who's spouses are not yet 'seeing'. It WAS based on 'fact', after all.
To my mind, the churches are only good for two broad groups of people--babies not strong enough to live in/resist this world without help, and the carnally minded (from sincere 'sabbath keepers' to wolves and charlatans). It's central to the Gospel of the Kingdom that they flourish so that God can call out His people from among them.
Ok. Done. Carry on. :D
E. Woods:
--- Quote from: koine480 on March 26, 2009, 11:17:10 PM ---
I'm still new to posting here and a little reluctant I guess to throw my thoughts out there for your critique. However, it is because of the respect that I have for your opinions that I would like to hear your thoughts and input on this. Hopefully, I won't violate any forum rules. At least I do not intend too!
OK, enough of the disclaimers. In Exodus 20:1-17 God gave to the Hebrews his initial set of "rules to live by", better known to us as the "Ten Commandments". I understand and agree that we are no longer under law but under grace,yet, God does not change. The basic principals of these laws are as binding on the christian as they were on the Hebrews. They are after all, it seems to me, the basis of love and honor. I do not think anyone would break one of these laws and not feel that he had sinned.
This brings me to my question. If you accept the primise that the intent of these laws are still to be obeyed, what about the fourth commandment? It is specifically stated that we are to " Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy". It is the only commandment that is ignored or discounted as meaningless to us as Christians yet, the other nine, are looked at as binding principles. Why?
I don't find any evidence that Paul or the other apostles willingly violated the sabbath or failed to observe it. Paul kept god's "appointed times" to the best of his ability after his conversion. He realized,I think, that as a Pharisee he had placed the "traditions of men" given in the oral law above Gods law and it caused him great regret. However, where did he teach that the principles of the ten commandments were not to be observed?
13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
2 Thess 2:13-15 (ESV)
I have read a great deal of Ray's writings and a couple things he wrote about the sabbath, but I am far from having a complete knowledge or grasp of all his teaching. Believe me I'm working on it! He is such a prolific writer and such a great teacher that I may be traveling a well trod path and just don't know it. I humbly and sincerely would like to see any comments you all might have on this. These are honest questions that I have been chewing on a long time and I have finally found a place where I'm not afraid to ask them. God bless you all. Thank you God for L. Ray Smith.
Grace and Peace to you all,
Ron M.
--- End quote ---
Hello Ron.
I keep the Sabbath. Ray said there is nothing wrong with that if you want to.
In my opinion, it is impossible for someone to keep the Sabbath every day of the
week. God Blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and He sanctified if ( set apart from the rest )
If a person goes to church on any other day af the week, They are not keeping
the day God set apart. He did not say go to church on His Sabath, He said ( DO NO
WORK ) on THAT DAY, A person does not keep a day holy by working on that day.
I Believe a person should ( work out your own salvation with fear and trembling: ) Phil.2:12
Have a
GREAT DAY.
Earl
Marky Mark:
--- Quote from: EJW on March 28, 2009, 10:24:04 AM ---
--- Quote from: koine480 on March 26, 2009, 11:17:10 PM ---
I'm still new to posting here and a little reluctant I guess to throw my thoughts out there for your critique. However, it is because of the respect that I have for your opinions that I would like to hear your thoughts and input on this. Hopefully, I won't violate any forum rules. At least I do not intend too!
OK, enough of the disclaimers. In Exodus 20:1-17 God gave to the Hebrews his initial set of "rules to live by", better known to us as the "Ten Commandments". I understand and agree that we are no longer under law but under grace,yet, God does not change. The basic principals of these laws are as binding on the christian as they were on the Hebrews. They are after all, it seems to me, the basis of love and honor. I do not think anyone would break one of these laws and not feel that he had sinned.
This brings me to my question. If you accept the primise that the intent of these laws are still to be obeyed, what about the fourth commandment? It is specifically stated that we are to " Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy". It is the only commandment that is ignored or discounted as meaningless to us as Christians yet, the other nine, are looked at as binding principles. Why?
I don't find any evidence that Paul or the other apostles willingly violated the sabbath or failed to observe it. Paul kept god's "appointed times" to the best of his ability after his conversion. He realized,I think, that as a Pharisee he had placed the "traditions of men" given in the oral law above Gods law and it caused him great regret. However, where did he teach that the principles of the ten commandments were not to be observed?
13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
2 Thess 2:13-15 (ESV)
I have read a great deal of Ray's writings and a couple things he wrote about the sabbath, but I am far from having a complete knowledge or grasp of all his teaching. Believe me I'm working on it! He is such a prolific writer and such a great teacher that I may be traveling a well trod path and just don't know it. I humbly and sincerely would like to see any comments you all might have on this. These are honest questions that I have been chewing on a long time and I have finally found a place where I'm not afraid to ask them. God bless you all. Thank you God for L. Ray Smith.
Grace and Peace to you all,
Ron M.
--- End quote ---
Hello Ron.
I keep the Sabbath. Ray said there is nothing wrong with that if you want to.
In my opinion, it is impossible for someone to keep the Sabbath every day of the
week. God Blessed the SEVENTH DAY, and He sanctified if ( set apart from the rest )
If a person goes to church on any other day af the week, They are not keeping
the day God set apart. He did not say go to church on His Sabath, He said ( DO NO
WORK ) on THAT DAY, A person does not keep a day holy by working on that day.
I Believe a person should ( work out your own salvation with fear and trembling: ) Phil.2:12
Have a
GREAT DAY.
Earl
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---If a person goes to church on any other day af the week, They are not keeping
the day God set apart. He did not say go to church on His Sabath, He said ( DO NO
WORK ) on THAT DAY, A person does not keep a day holy by working on that day.
--- End quote ---
Hello Earl,
I believe you are confused as to what Ray teaches on the subject of the Sabbath.
The Sabbath is all about the Spirit(Light),not the flesh(shadows).
KEEPING SABBATH
(http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.0.html):
--- Quote ---I keep the Sabbath. Ray said there is nothing wrong with that if you want to.
--- End quote ---
An excerpt from the paper.
That’s why people get angry with us at Bible Truths. Because we are trying to throw away the religious junk. At least to the degree that it needs to be thrown away. Some of it doesn’t need to be thrown away. You just have to come out of the shadow and go into the light.
The shadow is not evil. The shadow has it’s place. But YOU could be evil if you remain in the shadow, when you are told to come into the light. See you could be evil. The shadow is not evil, the law is not evil.
Paul says, what then is the law sin? God forbid. He says, I wouldn’t have known sin but by the law (Rom. 7:7). In verse 7 the law says I should not covet. But now in verse 14 For we know that the law is spiritual… Paul says, I wouldn’t have know that unless the law said it.
But that tenth commandment, Paul says that showed me that the law is spiritual. He didn’t say that the tenth commandment said that you should not covet, therefore we conclude that the tenth commandment is spiritual. No. By the tenth commandment he came to understand that the law, the whole ten commandments is spiritual. That includes the Sabbath day, it’s spiritual.
I’m not going to condemn anybody who washes feet or takes a wafer and wine or who keeps the seventh day. Or for paying tithes to their church or who goes to church or goes Wed. night, what they call worship services. I don’t condemn anyone for doing those.
I’m trying to teach those that God is trying to bring into the light, that’s all. I’m not condemning the shadow, nor am I condemning the people that are still living in the shadow. I’m just saying that God is showing these things and it is time to come into the light. Because that’s where it’s at.
Peace...Mark
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