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[odinpop]

I just finished listening to Ray’s audio “Keeping Sabbath,” and have a couple questions. If Keeping the Sabbath is basically “ceasing from our works, “as Ray says…….. is it not a sin to “go to church” in the traditional sense? After all, are not most people going to church to meet what they see as, an obligation or requirement of the Ten Commandments? That would definitely be "works" and definitely not be, “ceasing from their works.” If I understand correctly “going to church” is “missing the mark,” or is sin!

Here is the reason I ask…..My wife does not believe as I do. She insists on all of us going to church, at the local Four Square Church, every Sunday, and also insists that it is a benefit to her and our three kids. I have resolved, for the sake of peace in the family, to continue attending with her. Am I sinning, in doing so? Is she?

[aqrinc]

Hi Brad,

There is a parallel thread currently discussing similar questions, check it here:

The Ten Commandments: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9656.0.html

Take a moment when you can to read the responses there, it may answer your questions.

That Audio study: KEEPING SABBATH; is also available in a transcript:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.msg50887.html#msg50887

Hope these can help.

george .

[Roy Martin]

Hello odinpop,
 Im not good at quoting Scripture, but I can say how it was and is for me when God started calling me out of the church. At first my wife thought it was Satan tempting me, you know, that sort of thing. Finally I told her I am not going back, but she started to see Gods call too. Our decision was mutual, but had it been different, I still would not, and could not go back for anyone or reason unless God sends me back.
  I know there is Scriptures about this, but Ill leave that to someone else thats good at it.
The truth is such a blessing to me, and to go back to church seems like putting new wine with the old.
 It must be hard for you to be there. I would insist that I am not going back to keep my peace with God. It might be wrong for me to have said that, but for me thats just the way it is.
When I was going to church, it was for a relationship with God and to get understanding of the word. It had nothing to do with obligation, but I know its different with others. We all have our reasons. The one thing we all received while we were there was lies about hell, and a god that is going to torment his children for all eternity.

Peace
Roy

[jennie]

I think a lot of people see going to church as their "obligation" to God. Unfortunately it is often that the edifying scriptures and all are left right on the doorstep till the next time. What we have come to see is that it is not about going to a specific building but truly fellowhipping and learning from our fellow believers. This isn't a building here on line but it is where we come to learn and spend time with each other. I don't know how to really explain it. I am not a Bible scholar ... just a mountain woman who believes we should be Jesus with skin on Sunday and every other day of the week.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Be patient. Only God can lead her out when He thinks she is ready.

Arc

[Q]

Be patient. Only God can lead her out when He thinks she is ready.

Arc

This is the whole understanding to everything God shows us,,,
In His Wisdom and Time..

Pray always with Faith.

Q
 

[Marky Mark]

I just finished listening to Ray’s audio “Keeping Sabbath,” and have a couple questions. If Keeping the Sabbath is basically “ceasing from our works, “as Ray says…….. is it not a sin to “go to church” in the traditional sense? After all, are not most people going to church to meet what they see as, an obligation or requirement of the Ten Commandments? That would definitely be "works" and definitely not be, “ceasing from their works.” If I understand correctly “going to church” is “missing the mark,” or is sin!

Here is the reason I ask…..My wife does not believe as I do. She insists on all of us going to church, at the local Four Square Church, every Sunday, and also insists that it is a benefit to her and our three kids. I have resolved, for the sake of peace in the family, to continue attending with her. Am I sinning, in doing so? Is she?

If one has the Spiritual Truths of God in ones heart and mind,and obeys what the Father and our Lord Jesus speaks to ones heart and mind, then to me, at least, sitting in a church building is not a sin. However it is a sin to follow the teachings of the babylon church. We are told to come out of her in Spirit.To appease your wife and children is of a noble gesture but how long can that last before the things of the carnal church start to creep back into your mind.


Peace...Mark

[arion]

I realize what your saying but....how can we 'go' to church when we are the church?   

That being said your the prophet and priest of your home and upon you falls the primary spiritual authority and responsibility in your home.  Whereas Paul said he could be all things to all people in order that he might 'save' some, he wasn't talking about his own home or children here.  I don't have an answer for you except to let your light shine before your wife and children and in time (if it be the Lord's will to do so) He will open up their understanding on these things. 

Personally, if it was me I no longer could dip my toe back in babylon's bath house even if it meant some uncomfort on the home front.  Jesus said that our (spiritual) enemies would be those in our own household.  It's God's way and a cross that you and many other dear brothers and sisters have to carry when one spouse has been shown some of the deeper things of God and the other one is yet still in the institutional church.  May God give you both strength and wisdom in this matter.

[musicman]

I think Ray has shown us that just a mistake is a sin.  We as people can't always blame people for their sins.  When a person goes to church for lack of knowledge, this is similar to someone tripping and falling down.  Well, perhaps that person is elderly and not in the best of condition.  Who are we to call it a sin?  We don't have to.  A sin is a sin.  If a person is in this condition then they would be most righteous to be extra careful.  Should they fall and are able to get back up?  Great!!  They will learn from this experience.  The chosen must fall many times before they receive the real spiritual gifts.  This fall often includes taking part in religious rituals for a time. 

[mhykx]

Here is the reason I ask…..My wife does not believe as I do. She insists on all of us going to church, at the local Four Square Church, every Sunday, and also insists that it is a benefit to her and our three kids. I have resolved, for the sake of peace in the family, to continue attending with her. Am I sinning, in doing so? Is she?

Odinpop,

I'm also married with two kids (8 and 3).  My wife also thought (and I did as well) that it is beneficial for us whole family to go to a "church".  So we went all to "church" every Saturday for more than a year.  During the course of our fellowshipping with the "church" and knowing its teaching and tradition, I began to question the sabbaths, tithing, and clean meats.  I searched for answers.  I encountered literally scores of sites before I finally settle here in B-T.

God made a way for us not to attend anymore in the "church".  For 3 consecutive saturdays, different events (not religiously related) in our lives prevented our famlily to attend the "church" service.  On the 4th saturday, this time I told my wife that we're not attending because I found out the true meaning of sabbath.  I told her I'm going to share to her what I have been reading eventually.  It went on and on until we no longer attend the service.

What I'm trying to share here is that God will make a way, in His appointed time, for you to explain to your wife why you should no longer attend the Sunday service in your "church".  Until then, please accompany your wife and your kids (if you all go by car, they may need you as their driver, you know).  Pray everyday for God's will be done.

Your brother in Christ,
Mike

[Marlene]

Amen Musicman! I have fallen many times before getting up and coming in here. Some teachings like Trinity, and Going to Heaven without a Resurrection made me question Babylons teaching. But, then I would figure maybe they knew more then me. Well, I became ill and had to spend lots of time out of Babylon. I had a fall just before coming in here. Thats, what got me to questioning all I had been taught in Babylon. Thats, what led me to finding Rays's website. I went back to church a few times after. It just began to all look like a circus to me.

But, Babylon is where he calls his church out of.

God uses Babylon for his purpose.
These verses in Philipians Chapter 1 spoketo me big time now.
Verse 15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will;
verse 16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds
verse 17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel
verse 18 What then: notwithstanding every way, whether in pretence,  or in truth, Christ is preached and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice
verse 19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
While in Babylon , most are blind to the fact that they worship traditions of Man. Then the  Holy Spirit begins to work in the few . They will see something is not right. When, the eyes and ears are open and they see they are not living in truth they should want to leave. That Holy Spirit will get to you. When, you see it is wrong you will want him to rescue you. I feared if I don't leave maybe I would not retain the truth I have found.  It just all changed. I could not pretend when I knew the truth. I thank God every day he showed me the truth. Even after coming out , Satan tries to tell you , you are not good enough and all kinds of things. God teaches us how to overcome him. How to tell what is from him and what is from the evil one. God helps us discern from lies or truth. I just think of when Jesus was tempted by the devil, and how he handled him. He knew, he was the prince of this world for a time. But, he knew his Fathers voice. That, is what we have to do after coming out of Babylon. We have to overcome. We have to learn the will of God. We have to have the Holy Spirit or we will not make it. Jesus was perfect because he knew everything about his Father and the wiles of the Devil did not defeat us.
We are in a Battle. To me there is no choice but to leave Babylon when brought to truth. I would believe for me it would be a sin. Just, my thoughts.

In His Love,
Marlene

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Marlene

You said :

God uses Babylon for his purpose.

To confirm this insight note also http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html

Does Christendom understand in their “obscured” hearts that it is God sending them to deceive the world and to blaspheme His name through their evil doctrines? No.

Arc

[aqrinc]

Christendon like us, like everyone else; are recieving GOD'S Mercy, yes GOD Uses whomever; or whatever HE Wants to Get The Good News Of HIS GOSPEL Of The Kingdom out. Our understanding or not; (before we are called), has nothing to do with the Calling and Gifts Of GOD. Broken clay pots (us) do not have any ability at all to fix themselves.

Late addition: It is only after The fact (The Calling & Gifts) that we start to understand what The Scriptures are really about.

Rom 11: 29-35
29  For God does not change his mind about whom he chooses and blesses.
30  As for you Gentiles, you disobeyed God in the past; but now you have received God's mercy because the Jews were disobedient.
31  In the same way, because of the mercy that you have received, the Jews now disobey God, in order that they also may now receive God's mercy.
32  For God has made all people prisoners of disobedience, so that he might show mercy to them all.
33  How great are God's riches! How deep are his wisdom and knowledge! Who can explain his decisions? Who can understand his ways?
34  As the scripture says, "Who knows the mind of the Lord? Who is able to give him advice?
35  Who has ever given him anything, so that he had to pay it back?"

george.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi George

Thanks for the insert in red. This is how I can relate to what you are saying.

I believe that the calling is the call to change. (We see we are the Beast. We come to experience first hand the sorrow and recognition that we have left our most important irreplaceable, incomparable love that is Christ. ) The gift is the gift of God's goodness to repentance as we become washed to become clean in our consciences. As He prepares us to be clothed in His righteousness He removes our filthy rags. 

Arc