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Cain's wife
jerreye:
Good point, Daywalker. (BTW: I believe in the Salvation of ALL humanity, just so you are aware.)
Now, if there were human beings present before Adam, then wouldn't this mean that they were all sinless? After all, sin entered because of ADAM, correct?
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: jerreye on April 02, 2009, 03:07:13 AM ---Good point, Daywalker. (BTW: I believe in the Salvation of ALL humanity, just so you are aware.)
Now, if there were human beings present before Adam, then wouldn't this mean that they were all sinless? After all, sin entered because of ADAM, correct?
--- End quote ---
Here I think a review of the first few chapters of Romans would be helpful. Where there is no law, there is no transgression.
None of us were 'there', so to speak, so I am currently willing and able to entertain any number of 'imaginatory' possibilities as long as they don't contradict scripture or clear teaching. My own is 'speculation' to a degree, but not competely uninformed, even though it is quite possibly 'wrong' and most definately incomplete. I wasn't there either. ;)
I don't see our current sinful state as being a result of heredity via the "fall of man", but of the way mankind was formed in the first place--Adam and Eve and/or any who may have lived before them (assuming they themselves are literal historical figures). So any who may have preceded Adam and Eve would be my ancestors in meat-carnality (which falls short of the Glory of God simply by being flesh), and Adam my ancestor in transgression. In both cases, God IS forming man in His Image.
Take that for what it is worth--just my present understanding.
This is a good subject to meditate on, I think. As Ray shared in Nashville, a fuller understanding of the beginning of the Great Parable opens the path to a fuller understanding of the rest of it.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: jerreye on April 02, 2009, 03:07:13 AM ---Good point, Daywalker. (BTW: I believe in the Salvation of ALL humanity, just so you are aware.)
Now, if there were human beings present before Adam, then wouldn't this mean that they were all sinless? After all, sin entered because of ADAM, correct?
--- End quote ---
No, death was passed onto all men...not sin.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [the natural mind] is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Marques
daywalker:
Jerreye:
Good point, Daywalker. (BTW: I believe in the Salvation of ALL humanity, just so you are aware.)
Seeing that you are here studying at BT, I had already made that assumption. :)
Dave in Tenn:
Here I think a review of the first few chapters of Romans would be helpful. Where there is no law, there is no transgression.
Good idea! ;D
Revised Standard Version:
Rom 7:7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet, if it had not been for the law, I should not have known sin. I should not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."
Rom 7:8 But sin, finding opportunity in the commandment, wrought in me all kinds of covetousness. Apart from the law sin lies dead.
Rom 7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died;
Rom 7:10 the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me.
Rom 7:11 For sin, finding opportunity in the commandment, deceived me and by it killed me.
Rom 7:12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and just and good.
Rom 7:13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, working death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure.
Rom 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.
Rom 7:16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good.
Rom 7:17 So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it.
Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.
Rom 7:21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inmost self,
Rom 7:23 but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin which dwells in my members.
Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
My current thoughts regarding pre-Adamic humans is, as Ray pointed out, that Genesis does seem to at least point to the possibility [that is, until further Scriptural review/support...]. But far as I know, it is nowhere stated that God ever gave any Commandments to any human race preceding Adam.
"sin, finding opportunity in the commandment"
This is exactly what happened in the Garden. God gave Adam a Commandment--don't eat the fruit--Sin found its opportunity to introduce itself. Of course, leave it to that Old Serpent to be the mediator.
I should not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."
Seeing that the Scriptural definition of a "sin" is to miss the mark, and to fall short of the glory of God, I don't think it'd be wrong to suggest that Adam and Eve [who were created as Carnal Beings] had sinned several times in the Garden, but until they broke the Commandment of God, they were unaware of their transgressions.
if it had not been for the law, I should not have known sin.
Seems to me, it's very possible, that Adam and Eve were "sinning machines" just like us, but without God's Law, they could not know it. Just like they didn't realize they were naked, until they broke God's Commandment:
Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
But, to be naked is not a good thing:
Rev 3:17 You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.
This Seventh Chapter of Romans is actually my personal Favorite. I can relate to Apostle Paul here so much, and I can see there is a ton of Wisdom and Sacred Secrets hidden within this Chapter...
But Until Further Review,
- Daywalker.
Deborah-Leigh:
From the teachings we have here we know that there is not one Antichrist. We understand that we are the beast. We accept that Adam and Eve were carnal and we know that God did not make one blade of grass and one fish and one bird and etc...
I think Adam is the name for humanity not for one human being. The one Humanity of which we are all together made is carnal - as in first the natural then the spiritual. The One vivifying Spirit is the LAST Adam that is Christ.
Excerpt from http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html
Christ the FIRST of the firstfruit. Then believers, the FIRSTFRUITS.
Arc
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