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Author Topic: How do you know if you are called and chosen?  (Read 10449 times)

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jack88

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« on: June 05, 2006, 10:50:55 PM »

I have been reading at Mr. Ray's Bible Truths site and the Is, Was and Will Be site and on this forum and it all makes sense.

God wouldn't realy be the all-powerful and all-encompassing God unless He actually was. He's in charge and I can see that scripture proves that.
I am very glad that everyone is included in this plan.

My question is how do you know that you are called? How do you know if you are chosen? What is my part in it? What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to feel?
And I've got to be honest, there a lot of people I don't love or even like?
How do I change this? Do I have a part in this?
I am in awe of God's creation, Christ sacrifice but I've never really felt Him personally if that makes sense....
I understand Him in the head but not the heart.
What do I need to do? ....and what do I need to feel?

A lot of questions I know but any thoughts or direction will be greatly appreciated.
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Daniel

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2006, 11:40:06 PM »

Jack heres something

2Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for "if ye do these things", ye shall never fall:[/u]

I have been where you are and your feelings resounded my very own. I can hear your voice as my own. That "we might know Him" is the high call in Christ. Keep your heart focused on that call, "to Him". Most of all be honest with your heart no matter how rotten it is dont hide anything because He is faithful and just to forgive us. Pauls wretchedness was the distress he felt in himself as you, I and if we were honest everyones here.

Pray Jack, ask Him for His Holy Spirit, its by His Spirit we can know anything concerning God. We have not because we ask not. I hadnt ever really prayed right for a very long time, you know, "heal this person", or "that one", thanks for your gift, but I hadn't a clue to what that was to be honest.

I told Him, Lord? What on earth is THIS? I'm called to know you and I don't have a clue to who you are? I don't know you... I know in my heart I don't. But I desire to, and I really want to and your words say I can know. Needless to say I cannot make that claim although I want to. Help me to know you, direct my heart. I don't want to have a "thank you" dribble off my lip concerning something I know not of. I desire to have that thankfulness that springs forth from REALLY knowing what I have been given :lol:  You know?

I recall my first sincere prayer, I mean it was "sincere" I knew it was but bold as heck and I was not kidding at this point. I said I'm either praying into the air or I am not, but half the time I truly felt I was. I said, if your a liar I haven't a hope in this world for you. But YOU ARE TRUE as God IS True and you don't lie, TEACH ME, "show me" YOU. Let me KNOW YOU PLEASE, to THIS we are called are we not? I said your NOT DEAF, nor is your arm is not too short, please hear me because this time I come for NOTHING save YOU ALONE. In short I let it all hang out as I wrested out the crap and refused any pretentiousness concerning my approaching Him. He came through, I felt for the first time he actually heard me, as if my direction was rightly directed somehow I don't know.

Now... No lightning bolts came nor a vision of angels here okay? :lol:  But a "knowing" that HE HEARD ME and I KNEW IT in myself and THAT gave me more comfort then I ever had before. From that point forward I was to keep my eyes on Him and learn of Him. I wanted to allow Him to teach me of Himself, not stuff but HIM. I now love being in prayer with Him whereas before it had become a chore to me. To be honest I truly felt I was talking to a wall :lol:  I might as well have been, but I know differently now but wouldn't have unless He made that known to me. Just always be honest Jack and feel after Him with your whole heart. He will be found by you. I know what your feeling for at first, its like a "point of reference" somewhere to start, a line to follow in the dark. I pray one for you, I understand, I had been there for a very long time. Listen to his words, even ask for a willlingness to live honestly, I mean anything concerning our growth even help with unbelief. He is big enough for what appears to be our biggest hurdles. Your not alone.

God bless and I will pray for you that He reveal His presence to you in His perfect time.

Daniel
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longhorn

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2006, 11:50:28 PM »

I think ALOT of people will be shocked when at the twinkle of an eye, they realize they are in the SECOND RESURRECTION.
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orion77

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2006, 11:52:51 PM »

Jack and Daniel, I perfectly understand.  Daniel your reply was great, well put.  Same for me, the first with a sincere prayer witholding nothing, desiring to know Him.  I made a covenant to give up my life to help, even if I must die.  At that time had no idea what I asked for, but He let Himself be known to me, but it took many years of my own stubborness to die of self.  It has been a good walk, hard at times, but this is the best kind of learning.

It is a daily treasure hunt anymore.  Search, seek and the rewards will follow.  Be patient knowing He is with you always.

God bless,

Gary
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Indagator

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Re: How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2006, 12:13:11 AM »

Well, I am probably not the best person to try to answer this, but I will try to an extent, God and Christ permitting.

Quote from: jack88
I have been reading at Mr. Ray's Bible Truths site and the Is, Was and Will Be site and on this forum and it all makes sense.

God wouldn't realy be the all-powerful and all-encompassing God unless He actually was. He's in charge and I can see that scripture proves that.
I am very glad that everyone is included in this plan.

My question is how do you know that you are called? How do you know if you are chosen? What is my part in it? What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to feel?


If at some point, you feel the need to follow Christ, then you are "called".  I cannot tell you your part, only God and Christ can tell you that.  As far as what you are supposed to do, well I'm even still trying to figure that out for myself.  I have a broad idea, but I lack specifics, and I think it's for a reason really.  If you desire Christ, follow where he leads you.  Any further than that and I would have to talk with you much more.  Keep in mind, I"m just as questioning as you are but still digging in the fields trying to find that treasure...and it's not even because I want to find "treasure" oddly enough.  For me it's more or less because he dug for me, so because I love him I dig for him.  As far as what you are supposed to feel, I can't tell you that either.  The Spirit will make you feel, or not feel what is willed by God.  For me, I feel both extreme happiness, and at the same time extreme sadness/remorse.  I feel the sadness/remorse because of the happiness, because I don't deserve it.  I've screwed up innumerable times, lied, cheated, commited adultery, the list goes on and on (excluding murder, thank Christ).  I still screw up even now...but I'm trying as best I can.  It's not easy though...it hurts badly.  I can't help but to think of everthing I've done to hurt others, Christ included most of all.  The only times I smile really are when He shines down on me and lets me feel some warmth, which thank Him are not so sparsely.  Yes, he scourges every sone he receives, but He does keep in mind what whe are capable of dealing with and will give us relief when needed :)

Really, I'm not even sure if He looks at me as a Son.  I keep pushing, and digging, and trying and crying anyway though.  How else could I know?  I literally AM the prodigal son.  

Quote from: jack88
And I've got to be honest, there a lot of people I don't love or even like?
How do I change this? Do I have a part in this?


You only have a part in it if you understand that God is in full control (which sound retarded, but you have to understand that rather than "God is my Co-pilot, he is actually the Pilot and you're the passenger.  Yes it's hard to accept, but I tell you that once you come to accept this, it's a load off of your shoulders).  You have to let go of your "ego" and let Christ take over.  Your flesh by nature will not allow you to not hate, or be angry with.  You alone cannot help that.  If you wish to be better, then you have to give up your ego (the "you) and instead finally let Christ take over and live in you.  Remember...

Mat 11:29  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
m
Mat 11:30  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Gal 5:1  Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
[/quote]

 
Quote from: jack88
I am in awe of God's creation, Christ sacrifice but I've never really felt Him personally if that makes sense....
I understand Him in the head but not the heart.
What do I need to do? ....and what do I need to feel?

A lot of questions I know but any thoughts or direction will be greatly appreciated.


Well I can't tell you Jack, what "you" need to feel.  I wish I could =/.  I can tell you what I have felt though..which would require another thread, but I'll try to keep it short here for brevity's sake.  If you want to hear more, let me know via PM and I'll gladly tell you.  Although there are others here more qualified in spirit as of yet to be more helpful overall I think, at least you could know that you're not alone in asking questions...or better yet tryign to find the truth that can only be given, not just happened upon.  You can search that field for all time and never find anything, unless it is given to you to find something.

 I keep searching and finding pebbles.  Little bits at a time.  I treasure those pebbles though, becuase I know many won't even find that.  For all you and I know, you may acutally find BOULDERS.  Even if you do find those boulders though, always, always, always, keep in the Spirit.  Be wary of all of God's warnings, and promises.  The narrow way is befraught with thorny paths, fire, and God's own word.  .  

Honestly, I can say that physically speaking,and this  means literally EVERYTHING physical, it sucks...badly.  My biggest problem is lust.  I keep pushing and keep trying and keep going on, and keep carrying the burden and I get so much from it , but every time I eventually fall short.  Of course I repent, but I still burn.  You know though (and this may have something to do with my overactive artist's imagnination  :wink: ), even as I hurt, I can still see Him smiling at me as if it will be all over eventually and it will all be ok O_o.    I can almost feel him stroking my hair to comfort me.  He says "Hold on, and keep faithful little brother".  

At one point I see Him covered in stripes and blood in my place, and in the next holding me when I can't walk alone anymore.  That makes all the difference.


*edit*  Uhh, I forgot to add: Read both Mike and Ray's sites.  Keep in mind while reading that both are only men, although maybe closer to Christ than you are.  In that case, keep Christ first and foremost.  Both Mike and Ray are excellent teachers to help you understand how to being in the spirit, and the truths of the spirit, and they will both also tell you to not accept them as the final authority.  Always "test the spirits".  Read their essays and gain a general understanding.  Pray and ask God to give you understanding as to his word, according to his will.  Then read his word (it's probably best to start with the NT, and then OT, but I started and Genesis again and forward.  I'm thinking it might be wise to read the entire thing backwards actually, but I  don't really know yet).  Either way,  ask for it in Christs's name, and it will be given to you.  Maybe not how you wanted it, or expected it.  And it might hurt.  But remember, you asked for it.  Are you willing to face that?  I was willing, but not prepared.  Read, read, read, be patient, be patient, be patient...not in ignorance, but in God's wisdom.

Maaaaaaaaaaan, I just ran off at the mouth

 :(
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love_magnified

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2006, 12:50:50 AM »

Jack these are some great replies. My suggestion start simple.

Luk 14:8-10 "When someone invites you to a wedding, don't take the place of honor. Maybe someone more important than you was invited. Then your host would say to you, 'Give this person your place.' Embarrassed, you would have to take the place of least honor.  So when you're invited, take the place of least honor. Then, when your host comes, he will tell you, 'Friend, move to a more honorable place.' Then all the other guests will see how you are honored.

As you know the wedding is now, and you are in the kingdom now, but you also want to enter into the kingdom which has been purged of its "wicked servants" so that you can have a part in the powerful ages to come. This is our hope. But don't "attempt" to get in and don't assume an important role as though you already have.

Just be humble. Just love Jesus. Be confident in his lopsided victory over death. Right now the first thing on your plate is to grow in love. You must focus on that and pray for it. It is absolutely mandatory.

God bless you.
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rocky

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2006, 02:13:35 AM »

For me, what I struggle with is realizing that my flesh does not define who I am.  I have to look to my heart, and there I find Christ.  The whole called versus chosen thing, in some ways has bred legalism into my life.  The flesh can not be converted, it will always be there.  Trying to quit sinning in order to be chosen never works.  For me, I have come to trust this verse:

Rom 8:15  for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, `Abba--Father.'

Rom 8:16  The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God;
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love_magnified

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2006, 02:23:26 AM »

So it boils down to this, from the impression I have gotten so far: don't worry about your position with God. Christ died for your sins, so forgive others. Follow him, and have faith in his victory. All things will be added if you stick with the core basic.
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Daniel

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2006, 04:21:38 AM »

Rocky writes
Quote
The whole called versus chosen thing, in some ways has bred legalism into my life.


I understand what you are talking about, at least your honest. Throwing around the word "elect" as if it's some kind of "spiritual elitism" grosses me out too. If one is chosen (in Him) they would be chosen to bear fruit (that would remain) and in that fruit there is no such attitude that I can find in scripture. Often even the way "that" can be taught can sometimes overthrow the faith of some, as you well know. In some  it seems to breed hopelessness to "the calling" and any "present desire" becomes dismissible. Thats the fruit I see it producing in some. Some things are in how you might perceive it and not as someone else defines it for you. You always know a tree by its fruit. Know it also "in yourself" and what kind of fruit it bears in you. Your internal meter is (to me) the truest.

How could you desire to give diligence to making your calling and election sure, with that? Count that drawing you feel in you as the call and hope toward Him as you do. Don't let anothers perception of something rob you of that. Hope maketh not ashamed, adjust your thinking that He would not make you ashamed who have come to put trust in Him.


Daniel
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Pilgrim

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2006, 06:48:37 AM »

how do you know that you are called?

Simple!
You will know at the time when you no longer ask if you are called. You will know!

How will I know if I am chosen?
Simple!
Same as called!

What is my part in it?
Simple!
Complete surrender to God's will. Do it now if you haven't already! He will take it from there!

What am I supposed to do?
Simple!
Same as your part in it!

What am I supposed to feel?
Simple!
Nothing! Relax and enjoy and He will take over! You will feel what He wants you to feel when He wants you to feel anything.

there are a lot of people I don't love or even like?
How do I change this? Do I have a part in this?

Simple!
Welcome to the club! Know that love is not an emotion or a feeling. It is an act of the will! You don't have to like anyone or anything. When you love, the liking becomes automatic! Relax!

What do I need to do? ....and what do I need to feel?
Simple!
Re-read all of this message from one who has been through "hell" and survived...and God did it all when I learned to "Let go and let God" !!!!
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SOTW

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2006, 08:22:48 AM »

Anyone who trusts in Christ, will not be ashamed.
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love_magnified

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2006, 04:12:26 PM »

Amen.
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mercie

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2006, 05:26:46 PM »

Quote from: SOTW
Anyone who trusts in Christ, will not be ashamed.

Amen
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jack88

  • Guest
Thank You All
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2006, 03:21:10 AM »

Thank you very much everyone that replied.

Your thoughts, experiences and advice mean a great deal and have provided some food for thought.

Daniel your words bought a tear to my eye .....there's nothing quite like talking to the walls or yourself is there!

I've often felt bewildered, confounded and sort of jealous of those that you see that seem so filled with a spirit proclaiming God, etc.......it's like they have access to the hotline and I can't even find the phone let alone the number.

Indagator, thanks for sharing.
To everyone thanks .....it makes me realise I am not the only one with these thoughts.

I look forward to reading and learning more.

Finally, Pligrim, you said to surrender completely to God's will.....I can understand the part I would play, learning, praying and studying to understand and know God's will yet the bit I have trouble with is how do I surrender ....what does that mean on a day to day, minute to minute basis .....how exactly in practical everyday terms do I do that?
If say I think something that is not Godly or of love what is the next step?

I'm sorry if these questions seem simple and fundamental but I need to understand my part to be a part ....I'm not getting the surrender bit....any analogies might be helpful.

Again thanks,


Jack





[/quote]
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JJ

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2006, 12:48:29 PM »

Everyone, very good posts...... lots to think about......
Jack,  In reference to surrender--how? what does it mean in everyday life? .......  As a young person, I poured my heart and life out to God,
wanting so badly to give Him my all..... surrendering all was the goal, but
as a young person, I did not have that much to surrender and had no idea what ALL would mean, so as the years passed, it became more
clear that as much as I thought I wanted to surrender,  I wasn't doing a
very good job.......  all about growing, all about dying - to the flesh.  

I can't speak for others or say this is the only way, but for me, it seems
that our desire to surrender is compelled by circumstances that God brings to us, He lets us burn our bridges, fight our fights, have our way
until we are sick of it, until we see that "we" are nothing, that "we" are
failures and that "we" can not stomach life w/o Him, more of Him, and
our desire for Him grows and we become more inclined to surrender all.
It just happens,  whether our weakness is lust or fear...... God works it
out of us, over and over, deeper and deeper, and once we realize "we"
are a wasted piece of #$%*, surrender becomes priority and natural....
in time--the flesh will always take a rip at us, but .... sin becomes quite
repulsive after many rounds of dying and failing and being sickened by
your own flesh.  

To me, John 6:44 that says no man comes to Christ except the Father
drags him, applies to more than just the beginning when we first believe in Christ, but to the whole life......  I am sure that if God did not drag me,
kicking and screaming, I would NOT have ever sought Him and would not
continue to seek Him......  even though God has been the focus of my life, I see that it was NOT me, but Him that made that happen.....  so
just ask Him to take you and keep you, according to His will and ask Him
to make your desires for Him and to teach you to surrender and sin less
and then hang on!  For it is painful and fierce, this dying to the flesh thing--  and isn't that what surrender is?..... giving up our life to His will.
sorry so long,  JJ
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JJ

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2006, 01:02:28 PM »

Jack,  another thing.....  I have kept a post from another Jack, made back in March, it seems to apply:

God will bring experiences to your life that will rearrange your priorities.  By this, your good and evil works will all become vain and unprofitable.  This process will realign your desires, so that you will not love family, or
business, or your own life, nearly as much as you desire God's fullness.
Luke 14:26-- "If any man come to me and hate not (love more than ME) his father, mother, wife, children, siblings, his own life also, he cannot be My disciple."

All that you now value on earth will be hacked to pieces and torched by the love of God.  When this process is complete, even earthly good will lose its allure, and your values will be permanently altered to prefer the
eternal realm of the spirit above all else.  
Phil. 3:8  " Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for Whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ."

JJ
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JJ

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2006, 01:26:49 PM »

Hate to discourage anyone, but yes, Bobby, long AND wearisome process
for me!   I agree w/ you about the joy in the journey, but there is no
gain w/o pain it seems.   I often say that I am between The Rock and
a hard place and God will NOT let me go!!  

I want to endure to the end, and I am so grateful that God has chosen
to chasten and refine me!!!  But, it is not a bit fun or easy, that process
of inch by inch, layer by layer-dying -- for me learning to trust Him even
if life is painful and horrible and learning to desire His will, no matter
what it may bring, above any comfy life. (that He will not let me make for
myself anyway!)  

And thus that awesome power and mystery of God's work:  That He could put such peace and joy in my/our heart when the external circumstances appear to be so bleak and unsavory.   God -- almighty God, so merciful
and loving........    

JJ
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rocky

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2006, 01:53:42 PM »

Quote from: JJ
Hate to discourage anyone, but yes, Bobby, long AND wearisome process
for me!   I agree w/ you about the joy in the journey, but there is no
gain w/o pain it seems.   I often say that I am between The Rock and
a hard place and God will NOT let me go!!  

I want to endure to the end, and I am so grateful that God has chosen
to chasten and refine me!!!  But, it is not a bit fun or easy, that process
of inch by inch, layer by layer-dying -- for me learning to trust Him even
if life is painful and horrible and learning to desire His will, no matter
what it may bring, above any comfy life. (that He will not let me make for
myself anyway!)  

And thus that awesome power and mystery of God's work:  That He could put such peace and joy in my/our heart when the external circumstances appear to be so bleak and unsavory.   God -- almighty God, so merciful
and loving........    

JJ


I often wonder is there a difference between joy and happiness.  I am truly not happy right now.  Life is hard, and "it sucks".  But at the same time, there is this joy in my heart as Christ releases himself more and more to me, and He becomes more important to me than the external.
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eutychus

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2006, 02:15:23 PM »

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


AMEN BOBBY:


 the more i focus on Christ and love the more awsome it gets.

hard times? yes, but i see so much more good and wonderfull things
now.

 it comes with growth,  it takes time,  we all are moving in the right dirrection.

 be of good cheer brothers, i say this to edify, if yall knew the old me
 and the way i was :cry:


 i always thought" how am(( i )) gonna change?" " how am (( i)) gonna make me better?"

 finnally  LOVE started to grow, and now i say, AHHHHH its him not me :wink:


 i cant boast but in him.

 seek him with all you got.

love
 chuckt
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mercie

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How do you know if you are called and chosen?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2006, 02:22:48 PM »

Amen Bobby.
Encouraging word.

2Cr 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present [us] with you.  


2Cr 4:15 For all things [are] for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.  

 2Cr 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward [man] is renewed day by day.  

 2Cr 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding [and] eternal weight of glory;  


 2Cr 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen [are] temporal; but the things which are not seen [are] eternal.
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