Moar new members!!

[Astrapho]

Lol yes I know.

I've been reading Ray for two weeks now (woah it was that long!) and mostly it's been "OMG THIS CAN'T BE REAL HE MUST BE FABRICATING SOMETHING" and then it's "But wait I can't find anything against it and look at all those emails trying to do such a thing" then it's "BUT NOWAE SO MANY PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THIS?!" and then it's "God chooses only a few to see" and then it's "No way, this can't be real, I can't be one of them very elects, right? Right? I'm a stupid nobody!"

It really, really doesn't help that recently... Okay, great. This is a very long story but I'll keep it brief. I was from a Roman Catholic church, and I began to see a lot of problems with it and that started my search for God. I was more of," Why do they do all these physical things? How come it's this bread? Why do they say the same things? How do they know what measurements to use everywhere? How come Jesus looks different on the cross all the time? It's not fixed? Why does our rosary thing look so much like Buddhism? Oh, yay look, us Catholics are kinda similar to the other religions, is that good?" Plus a whole lot of other things and thoughts I can't really find words to express.

Then someone from Oneness Pentecostal came over and preached to me a greater truth than the Catholics. No trinity! Yay, we can dance and clap and shout for the Lord! We go all high in the Holy Spirit! We speak in "tongues"! Baptism in Jesus' name only, I mean LOOK all the apostles baptised in Jesus' name! The salvation plan for today, much like Noah's ark and passover during their respective times: Baptism by the Holy Spirit and water in Jesus' name! The alternative is eternal hellfire and you won't get Raptured before the tribulation! Acts 2:38! Revelations! At this time I sought to get out of the Catholic Church and go to the Pentecostal one, thinking about the very same "overcoming" Ray mentioned. Because that Oneness Pentecostal church was the only one of its kind in this country. It seemed grounded in absolute truth.

Then... Then... I found Ray's writings.

There I was, thinking I've gotten the full truth, and there Ray was, saying that... These tongues are fake, there is really no hellfire, we don't need water baptism, there is no "eternity" in the bible, and... There is no physical church on Earth that is, well, really real real. Things in my heart that I somehow believed, things like we don't actually have real free will like the church says, Ray said was true. I never really believed in the Rapture because of its sheer unbelievability. And Ray really said it wasn't true. I couldn't fathom why God wants all people to be immersed and baptized in Jesus' name when sometimes there are physical inhibitations if they want to be "saved" from an eternity of hellfire, even when sometimes they want to do it but died before they could do it. I've literally gotten nightmares about hellfire... Not really me in hellfire, but more of me, in my dream, thinking about hellfire... Without hope; even if you repent in hellfire, God won't hear you. It's for eternity. If you miss the mark by just a little, that's the future for you. Eternity in hellfire. No future. 

You can imagine my emotions now, I guess. Everything I thought was full truth was not really full truth. I've overcome the Catholic Church and I thought I was in the right place, but I really wasn't. But something kept drawing me back to bible-truths. I was somewhere in between absolutely joyous and absolutely wanting to tear out all my hair. This is too extreme. But somehow I thought this was the real deal. I can't believe I'm thinking this, but I want to break off the Pentecostal church. Argh!! I'm afraid I've gotten myself in way too deep and convinced everyone there that I was convicted by "truth" and things...

All because I decided to "test the spirit" of the Pentecostal tongues...

That's basically my life story for the past few months. I'm still reeling. I'm still reading. sometimes I feel like I keep skipping from "one truth to another". Am I too gullible? Am I normal?

Anyway, that's not really the whole point. I can't believe I just told my life story, in fact. I just felt like pouring out all my conflicting emotions at once. It's working well. 

HELLO ALL (All I planned to write before I came up with that drivel) !!

[jg]

Welcome Astrapho!!!!!

     Thanks for posting your story.  It wasn't long ago I was in the same position you find yourself in right now.  Isn't finding "truth" priceless?  What a ton of emotions we go through.  Like you, I was thinking, "Can I believe this Ray guy?"  "Am I being deceived, tricked into some false teaching?"  The verse about deceiving the very elect kept running through my mind.  But that only drove me to prove something,,anything,, wrong. 

I started out wanting to know about tithing so I googled it up and found myself reading Ray's paper on it.  It made so much scriptural sense.  I dont know about you, but some of the other titles almosty scared me off, like no trinity, tongues and the no hell letters.  I found myself thinking, if Ray's paper on tithing made such sense, I have to go back and read at least one more paper just to see if there might be more truth, or would I find a bunch of crap?  The thing I kept coming back to was how it all seemed to fit in with what the bible said.  I found one thing after another that debunked what I had been taught, none of which I could disprove.

The most important thing God showed me was that He really is Love.  I cried, (dude, I'm a man, not suposed to cry)  anyway, I cried like a baby when the truth of His love was revealed to me through the letter to Hagee on no such thing as a hell that burns people "forever and ever and ever." 
I think thats when I fell in love with God.  I had vowed I'd never serve a god that would burn people forever,,even those who had never heard of how to be saved.  How is that love? How could He expect me to love my enemies when He would burn His enemies, not just for a time, but from this moment on,, with NO end?  What a croc! 

Anyway, you're not alone, many here have basicly the same story as you.

Welcome, in the name of our Lord. 

Joe

[Dave in Tenn]

Welcome Astrapho.  I can't add anything much to what jg shared, because the both of you have described my experince as well.  The Light is bright, and the potter's wheel spins pretty fast sometimes, but sometimes it seems like the Lord has to disorient us before He reorients us.  And to think it's only beginning.  I pray we all remain teachable and amazed and that you continue in your reading, studying, and proving.  Anyways, welcome again.  I hope we and you are greatly benefitted from our association in this forum.

[Coach Kimo]

Hi Astrapho!
Thank you for sharing your heart about being torn in the middle of being a "pentacostal" believer. The "pentacostal" movement is a very deceptive movement. I can attest to being in your shoes and searching for biblical answers while at the same time being a "holy roller." I was involved with a faith healing ministry for several years. I praise God for bringing me out of the "pentacostal" movement and I praise Him for bringing you out too.

Many of today's mainstream Christian churches (it's what I refer to them as) have so much anti-Christ teachings in them. But the sheep are made to live in fear and guilt if they don't participate or act and do like everyone else - You know that, right?. Well, it is very "cultish" and of course it's modern day brain washing "In the name of Jesus."

Praise God for the light that shines within you. May the Lord continue to give you strength, wisdom and understanding.

The grace and peace of our Lord Jesus be upon you.

[Marky Mark]

Welcome to the forum Astrapho,and hope to hear more from you


Peace...Mark

[jassy]

HI Astrapho

I dont think you wrote drivel. It was a wholehearted post. Because  much of my journey has been with the Lord alone without much outside interference,I have learnt how to realise when something is off. When something is wrong I get disinterested and cant concentrate. That happened on my short foray into mysticism, with tounges and with the hell story amongst over things.
That has not happened with Rays biblical perspective. It is confirmation of what I suspected if nothing else. And I have not lost interest. Blimey, I joined the forum.

peace and God blessings to you
joan

[Phil3:10]

Astrapho,
Welcome to the forum and GOD'S truths. I, along with many others, have experiences much like you. It took me a year reading Ray's teachings and trying to disprove them to know that what he writes is true.
Our LORD is in control and HIS will is going to be done.  HIS love is beyond belief and HIS mercy is everlasting. HE is so big and we are so little and HIS SON did everything we will ever need spiritually for our salvation.
What you wrote is from the heart and I think it pleases GOD and has a positive influence on all that read your testimony. I look forward to hearing more from you and can assure you the more time you spend in Ray's teaching and in this forum will be a blessing to you.
In HIM,
Phil3:10

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Astrapho

The Lord also dragged me out of the Catholic dominion of demons into the Pentecostal circus of demonology.

I cried abundant tears of grief and shame after reading the expose on the teaching that revealed the hypocrisy and the trickery of tongues. I was so grateful that Ray admonished to repent immediately in the finale of that teaching!

Welcome to the Forum

Arc

[charrie]

Hi, Astrapho

Welcome

Charrie

[meee]

                Hey Astrapho,
                    Thank you for being so open and expressing it so well, what most of us have or are going through.
                    My journey has been all over the place too, and I even had been at Ray's site a few years back, but at that time I wasn't ready, because I didn't see in the spirit ,that yes,this Is God's Truth. So I think God brings us around and back , at least it seems this way for me.
                    Looking forward to seeing you in the forum!!
                    Glad you're here, your sister in Christ,meee{Terry}

[Kat]

Hi Astrapho,

I'm glad you have joined us 
Now it is going to take time for all this to sink in.  You have a whole lot more study ahead of you and if you stick with it, then it will start to come together for you.  There is a lot to read on the BT site and there is a lot more here.  But do not become overcome with all there is to study, be thankful for so much material that is explaining this truth for you.

Here are a few links to things we have here that you can check out.

The forum rules, it will help you see how this forum is moderated.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4558.0.html
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.0.html

Forum Indexes & lots of Info.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,14.0.html

Ray's Videos
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8227.0.html

Ray's Audios 
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.html

Ray's 2008 Audios
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8256.0.html

Transcripts of Ray's Audios
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,12.0.html

Who Am I? (members pics and personal stuff)
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,16.0.html

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[indianabob]

Good evening Astropho and welcome to the rest of your life.

Please do not be concerned about the stress of NEW knowledge, it is very normal and will go away in a few years.  (smile)

I have been studying since 1969 and have gone through at least three transitions of understanding.  So here I am at age 74 and I sometimes feel that I am still in second grade.  Not to worry, it is perfectly normal because God treats each one of us as unique individuals and works with us according to His will and knowledge.  Try to let yourself go and trust God to work with you at a pace that you can handle.  God knows what is best for each person.

Love to hear from you anytime and please take advantage of each opportunity to exercise your spiritual muscles, your heart and mind.

Regards, Ole Indiana Bob

[Marlene]

Welcome Astrapho! Your story is interesting. Its cool to see the many ways God uses to drag each of us here. Some are similar and some are different. I had fallen into a sin and felt like a total failure. I had been searching through different believes that just let me all the more confused. I was in a Hell of my own mind. When, God led me to Ray's website I found out I had more to repent of then the sin God delivered me out of. This was the start of the right path for me.  Just, keep studying Ray's articles. The forum members here really care for each other. It is real in here. Glad to have you to fellowship with.

In His Love,
Marlene

[cjwood]

I was somewhere in between absolutely joyous and absolutely wanting to tear out all my hair.





hi astropho,
welcome home  . i absodoodlelutely could identify with your statement above. actually, that is pretty spot on where i was at when i first started reading ray's essays. and now some 3 yrs later i still sit in amazement at the utter, well, nonsense that is put out there as truth. i too remember thinking that what ray was expounding on had to have a hitch in it somewhere, BUT, WRONG PALEFACE!! i have spent many nights and days and days and nights just thanking our Father for the Love that He is and the Love that He has, and the Love that He sent to us named Jesus Christ. and i let Him know that i know that i am just a measly little bitty worm with a very LARGE beast in me, BUT, He STILL loves me. now that is almost too awesome to believe, BUT, i do believe it because, well, because the Spirit of Jesus Christ confirms it to me time and time again. okay, i better close this or else i will go on and on. anyway, welcome to your new home and enjoy your time in the forum Living Room.

cheers,
claudia

[Astrapho]

Thanks for the warm welcome, guys! It definitely makes me feel better to know that I'm not alone in this whole Truth thing. I was kinda afraid I'd come out looking like a whacko, posting my story up there right in my very first post, but I'm glad that my fears were unfounded, Looking forward to the next few months/years here in this awesome, God filled place! (Sorry for smiley overload, lol!)

Anyway, I must hasten to tell you what happened this morning. I think God is spinning the potter's wheel waay too fast! D:

Today's Good Friday, right? Yeah so this morning, my Dad (I'm 15, and I feel so young here!) wanted to drag me off for the Good Friday mass at the Catholic church (Nope, I'm not physically out of it yet). And I really didn't want to go because of the whole pointlessness of it.

Guess what? Okay, my Dad knows that I've been getting myself neck deep into the Pentecostal stuff, and it turned into a confrontation!! It somehow boiled down to me, finally saying that, "I don't wanna go to church; not the Catholics', not the Christians', I don't want to go to church!"

Silence.

And he was like, "A month ago I thought I was the one who needed prayer, but now I know it's you! Look at how confused and brainwashed you are!"

Minor background info: After I got into the Pentecostal thing I tried "spreading the truth" to him. Looks like it's come to kick me in the behind... 

Ahhh!! What should I do? I think I'm screwing everything up!!

(Sorry for ending the post on such a flustered note, but now I feel like an ant on hot platter x_x )

[Dave in Tenn]

At 15, you ARE a little young here...but you're not alone.    

It's a pretty uncomfortable place to be to be at odds with your parents over matters of faith and concience.  I'm not 15 any more, but I was 'preaching' to my folks about that age, and didn't have very much 'truth' at all.  Don't sweat the 'mistakes'.  God has led your steps in ways you may not recognize just yet...maybe won't ever in this life.

He ordained your parents for you--and ordained that you would be their child.  He made you grow up Catholic.  He caused you to flirt with Pentacostalism.  He gave you this desire for a geniune and meaningful relationship with Him.  He's opened your eyes to falsehoods, lies and deceptions, and He's given you a glimpse of the real 'meaning of life' stuff.

There's no need to 'preach' to your Dad.  Check out Ray's 'winning souls' article for a complete teaching on 'why not'.  But there's nothing at all wrong about being honest with him, as you were in declaring you really don't want to go to any church.  Try to keep up that honesty, no matter which short-term direction your life takes.  God works over the loooong haul.  Remember Moses, Joseph, Noah?   

MAYBE it's enough to tell him that you know you've been confused and you want to take some time and sort things out.  Of course, WE hope you can and will continue to study here.  From your story, it seems extra clear to me that God has been preparing your heart and mind to believe.  Not everybody understands that, and hopefully your Dad is one who will at least give you some space to grow.  He is right about one thing (and surely about more than one thing)--and that's that you need prayer.  Who doesn't, right? 

I guess the last thing I can share is that you should be careful not to mix a renewed faith with a natural 'rebellion' that may also be going on in your heart due to your age.  It may not be wise to 'stand up to' your Dad.  But at 15, you are old enough to stand up with him and speak your mind.  I think (though others may not) that it's not necessarily vital that you 'come out of her' physically right now.  That's a pretty grown-up step.  Again, hopefully your dad will see that this is important to you.  But don't let me 'despise your youth' as Paul admonished Timothy concerning others.  I'm not your Lord.  Talk to your Heavenly Father about how and when to make that step. 

I look forward to knowing you for a long time. 

[Marlene]

Astrapho, I cannot give you any better advice then what Dave has given you. Wow, it is awesome to see God lead someone so young to his truths. I will keep you in my prayers.

In His Love,
Marlene

[Astrapho]

Thanks Dave for the advice. Guess it's time to start learning not to be such a big mouth (I tend to blurt out everything I'm thinking...) Everything's a little calmer now, my Dad apologized for shouting at me and I apologized for being rude, and we haven't talked about it so far. I can't believe I missed that article, I should go read it now.

And thanks, Marlene

God bless you too!

EDIT: Lol, more smiley overload!

[Ninny]

Hi Astrapho!
I'm glad you're here! I'm certainly not 15 either, but I know some 15 year olds!!  That's a hard age to be, but as you know your dad loves you so I'm glad the two of you worked it out. When my sons were growing up I always allowed them to tell me what they thought. If they didn't like what I told them to do they were free to say, "I don't like having to do that." As long as they were respectful to me They knew there were certain things they HAD to do even if they didn't like it! Hey, I hate having to do laundry, but I HAVE to do it  so even though I may hate doing it..it has to be done!! There are a lot of things you will do because your dad asks or tells you to do it. Going to church is sometimes second nature with families and it looks like a member who no longer wants to go is giving up his faith. People aren't able to differentiate between being a "Christian" and going to church or being a Christian and NOT going to church! If you DON'T go to church... NOT a Christian..GO to church yeah, GOOD Christian! There is no in between to people! Be patient with your dad and remember he's just part of the above mindset!! Be a good example to him honor him and treat him with respect, I'm thinking that will pay off for you in the long run!

These are just my thoughts on the matter, not worth much, just an opinion!
Kathy

[charrie]

Hi, Astrapho

You have been given great advice.  If I may had, Astrapho, it may help reassure your dad, if the subject comes up again, that your love for Christ Jesus has not changed if anything it has gotten stronger and that you are actually learning and growing more in Him then ever before.

It sounds like the two of you have a very good relationship.  Be thankful for him being in your life and concerned about your direction in life.

Charrie