Topic: Heart of the Earth/3 Days (Read 15454 times)

Marky Mark · « **on:** April 09, 2009, 07:35:36 PM »

I just wanted to throw this out there since its that time of the year again.

Thanks Marques

Email to Ray.

http://bible-truths.com/email6.htm#three

Hello Ray,

On your Email question and answer on a reply to a question you mention Matt.12;40 saying that the verse is not speaking about the length of time that Jesus was buried. Why is your view changed?

Urban

[Ray Replies]

Dear Urban:

You are a pretty sharp guy to catch that! I will write a separate paper on this subject in the near future, or I may incorporate it into my paper on "The Lake of Fire."

I changed my view, because as of three months ago, I realized I was teaching heresy regarding these "three days and three nights." I spent tens of hours on this subject a couple of months back, when I should have been writing on my paper. A friend believed that "three days and three nights" could mean any part of three days and three nights. I said that "three days and three nights" could not possibly means "Friday night, Saturday day, and Saturday night." That's only ONE day and TWO nights.

I calculated EVERY CONCEIVABLE way possible to have Christ resurrected early Sunday morning while it was just beginning to dawn, and yet, go backwards "three NIGHTS and three DAYS" and arrive a time and day that would fit all of the other statements regarding the crucifixion, burial, and resurrection--the Passover preparation day, the hurrying to bury Christ because of impending weekly Sabbath, that that Sabbath that year was "an high or holy" day in addition to being the weekly sabbath, etc., etc.

Anyway, I found that IT CANNOT BE DONE! IT WON'T FIT! No matter how anyone configures the Passover, Days of Unleavened Bread, weekly Sabbath, etc., IT CANNOT BE DONE--it will not fit. I spent hours and hours just on the Scripture in Luke's account where the men going to Emmaus were accosted by our Lord, and one of them remarked, "And beside all this, TO DAY IS THE THIRD DAY since these things were done" (Luke 24:21). But I found one translation that said, "Besides all this, IT HAS ALREADY BEEN THREE DAYS since these things were done." I thought I was really on to something here. NOT!

I obviously prayed to God to give me understanding. After one of my intense sessions with the Scriptures regarding this matter, I went to the kitchen for a drink, and while on my way God turned on a light bulb in my spirit. I had FAILED MYSELF TO DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN TEACHING OTHERS. I was thrilled with the answer--God gave me the answer.

I called Michael, and informed him that "he was RIGHT after all." By combining ALL of the Scriptural statements regarding Christ's crucifixion, He HAD to be buried on Friday evening and raised Sunday morning! And Michael was delighted to know that he was right after all. But my next statement floored him. I then told Michael that I WAS RIGHT ALSO. THAT JESUS CHRIST REALLY WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH!

Well, Michael was now bewildered--HOW CAN THAT BE, THAT'S A CONTRADICTION! I told him that it is no contradiction, we were both right and we were both wrong. Jesus Christ was buried Friday evening and rose Sunday morning, and yet, was also "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Two things I neglected to follow:

Jesus Christ ALWAYS, ALWAYS spoke to the multitudes in public in PARABLES. Parables are not LITERAL, neither do they lie. I neglected to treat this teaching of Jesus as a "parable."

It NOWHERE SAYS that Jesus would be "DEAD for three days and three nights." I just ASSUMED that is what was meant by the phrase "in the HEART OF THE EARTH."

I'll just give you the gist of the answer, as my time is limited right now. Jesus called "three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH," "the SIGN of Jonah." Now then, if Christ was to be DEAD for the exact period of TIME of three days and three nights, How then could that be "the sign of Jonah?" JONAH WAS NOT DEAD AT ALL!!! Jonah went through 'A LIVING HELL' if you will! Besides, Jesus was NOT buried in the "HEART" of the earth, He was buried in an ABOVE THE EARTH TOMB! Maybe twenty inches or so on the other side of a big stone.

"In the HEART OF THE EARTH" is a parable showing the unbelievable agony of the human spirit and flesh that Jesus would go through LEADING UP TO and INCLUDING the time in the tomb. And those three days began on the PREPARATION FOR THE PASSOVER, seeing that Jesus, HIMSELF, was to BE THE PASSOVER!!!

And don't forget the AGONY IN THE GARDEN when Jesus SWEAT BLOOD!! No one will ever know what torture He endured those "three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH." BEFORE the beatings and crucifixion we read this:

"NOW is My SOUL TROUBLED [Greek: DISTRESSED, IN TURMOIL!]; and what shall I say? Father, save Me from this hour: but for his cause came I unto THIS HOUR" (John 23:27).

The "heart of the earth" is the very DEPTH OF THE FLESH. The flesh of man is "of the EARTH, EARTHY" Paul tells us.

Again, thank you for your keen observation.

God be with you,

Ray

Peace...Mark

Deborah-Leigh · « **Reply #1 on:** April 09, 2009, 11:14:58 PM »

Ray Smith

Quote

The "heart of the earth" is the very DEPTH OF THE FLESH. The flesh of man is "of the EARTH, EARTHY" Paul tells us.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.0.html
So this whole thing of coming out of our life - coming out of carnality - coming out of religiosity is like coming out of darkness into the light and that light will give you peace or rest. You have to rest or cease your works and that is what this verse says, which concludes in Heb. 4:10.

John 19 : 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished: and He bowed His Head, and gave up the ghost.

Luke 24 : 6 He is not HERE, but IS risen: remember how He spake unto you when He was yet in Galilee, 7. saying, The Son of man must be (one) delivered into the hands of sinful men, (two) and be crucified, and the third day (thirdly) rise again.

He IS Risen! TODAY...everyday, every moment in Spirit and in Truth.

Arc

cherokee · « **Reply #2 on:** April 10, 2009, 08:59:30 AM »

For those, new and old, who want a more in depth study, here is a link to a discussion we had on this in 2007.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5916.0.html

Suzie

meee · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2009, 11:08:17 AM »

Very interesting !
This is a timely post for me. I

have been wondering if we are to get together for a holiday meal,so to speak, or not

I haven't gotten that far yet in reading Ray's papers.
Thank you Suzie for the thread to the old post. It was very enlightening to me. Ray and Joe cleared it up for me.
hugs and luv,meee

Quote from: cherokee on April 10, 2009, 08:59:30 AM

For those, new and old, who want a more in depth study, here is a link to a discussion we had on this in 2007.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5916.0.html

Suzie

Marky Mark · « **Reply #4 on:** April 10, 2009, 12:30:18 PM »

Quote from: meee on April 10, 2009, 11:08:17 AM

Quote
Very interesting !
This is a timely post for me. I have been wondering if we are to get together for a holiday meal,so to speak, or not I haven't gotten that far yet in reading Ray's papers.
Thank you Suzie for the thread to the old post. It was very enlightening to me. Ray and Joe cleared it up for me.
hugs and luv,meee

Meee,hope this helps, an email to Ray.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2855.0.html

Dear mommateeh:
Understand that if there never was a Roman Saturnalia pagan fest in mid-winter, there would not be a Christmas, or an X-mas, or a day of exchanging gifts and kissing under the mistletoe, drinking eggnog and booze, putting eggs [orbs] on evergreen trees, etc., etc., etc. What people do with such days (Easter of also pagan) is up to them. I do not condemn anyone for keeping Christmas or Easter. Of course your friends and relatives will hate yhou if you don't partake of these customs. It's hard to obey Jesus until you begin to see the value in doing so. I know that people have a good time and enjoy the Christmas Season. They also enjoyed it when it was called the Saturnalie in pagan Rome. But on the other hand, your are right, people get all spiritually bent out of shape over Christmas, and become much much holier-than-thou because they have a little knowledge. I get Christmas presents. I accept them. I thank the givers, and enjoy the gifts. Didn't Jesus "eat and socialize with SINNERS in their own homes?" Try not to destroy your family over this Season of the year. Life is not always easy.
God be with you,
Ray

Peace...Mark

meee · « **Reply #5 on:** April 10, 2009, 01:05:20 PM »

A great help Mark!
It's funny because those that want to hold the celebration { in my family,anyway } don't really even serve the Lord. Just a tradition. My fault though, because I raised my kids to partake in all these traditions. Now when I try to not take part, it isn't understood, they still want me to cook and everyone wants to come to my home for these things.
Thank you!
meee

daywalker · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2009, 01:40:04 PM »

Someone the other day asked me if I was doing anything for Easter, and I *sarcastically* replied, "Nope. I'm not a Pagan." Haha, they just gave me a very confused look, and then walked away...

Daywalker.

meee · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2009, 04:02:45 PM »

Daywalker, Hi,
Yea, I was checking out in a store and the cashier said "have a nice Easter", and I didn't say " you too, or anything" , she stared at me like,"well she must not have heard me or something."
I'll remember your pagan line, funny!
good one,meee

Quote from: daywalker on April 10, 2009, 01:40:04 PM

Someone the other day asked me if I was doing anything for Easter, and I *sarcastically* replied, "Nope. I'm not a Pagan." Haha, they just gave me a very confused look, and then walked away...

Daywalker.

Ninny · « **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2009, 06:32:34 PM »

Hi!
Let me just add my 2 cents worth

You know I just don't worry about it one way or another..Some of these things if it causes someone who wouldn't even think about what Jesus did for us at any other time and yet always manages to go to church on Christmas or Easter, that's at least twice a year that Jesus gets into their thoughts if only long enough to make it to the "big dinner" at the end of it all. You just never know what God uses to work His will in anyone! I think of all the traditions I have gone through in the name of being a "good Christian" I just can't judge anyone else!

I either participate if I'm invited or don't if I'm not! It usually makes the little kids happy to have a day where they can have fun and you know kids are all about that! I'm a big kid at heart and I love to see children laugh and play, Jesus loves kids, too that's why he did what he did! So anyway, that's just my way of looking at it. I don't go to church on those days unless my grandkids beg me to go or if they are in a program. I would never NOT go with them, what kind of Ninny would I be??

You know Man looks on the outward appearance (do we care what people think or expect of us?), but God looks at the heart ( you know we worship in spirit and in truth). Oh well, to me? I don't care one way or another!

Eph 4:32 yet become kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, dealing graciously among yourselves, according as God also, in Christ, deals graciously with you." CLV
Just be kind when someone wishes you a happy day and say "Thank you!"
Kathy

daywalker · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2009, 07:28:46 PM »

Quote from: Marky Mark on April 10, 2009, 12:30:18 PM

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2855.0.html

Dear mommateeh:
Understand that if there never was a Roman Saturnalia pagan fest in mid-winter, there would not be a Christmas, or an X-mas, or a day of exchanging gifts and kissing under the mistletoe, drinking eggnog and booze, putting eggs [orbs] on evergreen trees, etc., etc., etc. What people do with such days (Easter of also pagan) is up to them. I do not condemn anyone for keeping Christmas or Easter. Of course your friends and relatives will hate yhou if you don't partake of these customs. It's hard to obey Jesus until you begin to see the value in doing so. I know that people have a good time and enjoy the Christmas Season. They also enjoyed it when it was called the Saturnalie in pagan Rome. But on the other hand, your are right, people get all spiritually bent out of shape over Christmas, and become much much holier-than-thou because they have a little knowledge. I get Christmas presents. I accept them. I thank the givers, and enjoy the gifts. Didn't Jesus "eat and socialize with SINNERS in their own homes?" Try not to destroy your family over this Season of the year. Life is not always easy.
God be with you,
Ray

Peace...Mark

Great post, Mark!

I remember when I first learned about the Origins of Easter and Xmas [both via BT and other sources], I became suddenly confused. I wanted to honor God by not continuing to follow these Pagan traditions, but I also didn't want to start a feud with my family and friends. I also didn't want to become 'holier than thou'! I always hated that kind of attitude. My focus has been on just respecting and having a fun time with my family and friends, and not practicing any of the 'religious' traditions or anything...

Whenever someone wishes me Happy Easter or Xmas, my usual response is simply, "you, too". I'm simply wishing them a Happy Day..

But [as seen in my previous quote] I will make an occasional comment, if the door is opened... But never with a serious, or demeaning intention; I am just a very sarcastic person, and sometimes I cannot help myself

Good Day Friends,

Daywalker.

Deborah-Leigh · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2009, 08:09:41 PM »

When wished a "Happy Christmas," I find the most disarming responce is to smile back and inform the well wisher that for me Christmas is every day! This comment invariably is met with a joyful acceptance and nods of albeit, ignorant approval.

With responding that Easter for me is everyday, the responce is not met so joyfully. I think this is because Christmas is associated with giving, gifts, indulgence and parties. Easter on the other hand is associated with loss, grief and death rather than the fulfilment of the Plan of God in Christ.

Death is still not taught correctly by Christandom. The fear of a loved one or oneself dying and then being made alive in Hell has to be a real source of fear for those who have not yet seen or heard the truth.

Arc

charrie · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2009, 11:23:54 PM »

I find that, within myself, it is sometimes not easy to not judge people because they chose to celebrate these "christian holidays". it is hard for me to keep my mouth shut. It is difficult also for me to not respond with some "I think I am better than you because of a little knowledge Father has graciously bestowed upon me" attitude.

But, I keep my mouth shut, I smile, I love.

These so called "christian holidays" are difficult to get through, but we here at BT are in training. And I speak for myself here, but, I don't believe that I am quite ready to judge.

$:-\$

What do you all think?

Charrie

judith collier · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2009, 06:34:28 AM »

Easter is every day, I think Arcturus said it. Christ is alive, Christ is risen. Christ is still with us. Judy

Deborah-Leigh · « **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2009, 07:27:07 AM »

It is not a sin to discern.

We’re all out of Adam. And what does Adam do? Being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters and on and on. Wow, this is O man out of Adam. This is what he does. And only by the grace of God, some of us didn’t have to go that route.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html

There is no law against discerning if a person is still blind, bound and subject to belief in lies and loyalty to error. God's Judgment is not condemnation and self elevation to unmerited heights of holiness. God IS Holy. God is not an egocentric megalomaniac.

Discerning that a person is still spiritually blind should not make us feel holier than thou, but pity for the person still in the dark. This is discernment with Mercy and gratitude to God for our blessings rather than pious self aggrandisement and disdain for those God has not appointed to be His vessels of Honor. God is always the potter and changes not.

Until and unless we are made able to judge with the Spirit of God, we shall not be able to.

Here is how God judges and note, Paul councils us to pay attention to the fact that the chosen are going to Judge even the Angels.

http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html

God "judges" us by "chastening "(paideuo) us, which means, teaching, training, learning, disciplining, punishing, instructing, and educating. And God "graces" us also by this same "chastening" (paideuo) which does not change meaning from one Scripture verse to another. Notice how other translations render this word paideuo in Titus 2:11-12:

"Teaching us..." King James

"Instructing us..." American Standard Version

"Disciplining us... New Testament (Henry Alford)

"And schooling us..." The Centenary Translation (Montgomery)

"Training us..." The New Testament in Modern Speech (Weymouth)

Purpose for bible-truths.com
"[1] preach with sound doctrine and [2] refute those who contradict it"
[Titus 1:9 - The New Revised Standard Version]

Arc

cherokee · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2009, 09:51:35 AM »

Quote

Thank you Suzie for the thread to the old post. It was very enlightening to me. Ray and Joe cleared it up for me.
hugs and luv,meee

You are welcome meee.

Suzie

charrie · « **Reply #15 on:** April 11, 2009, 10:02:56 AM »

Thanks, Arc, for pulling Ray's teaching on this.

Quote from: Arcturus on April 11, 2009, 07:27:07 AM

It is not a sin to discern.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html

There is no law against discerning if a person is still blind, bound and subject to belief in lies and loyalty to error. God's Judgment is not condemnation and self elevation to unmerited heights of holiness. God IS Holy. God is not an egocentric megalomaniac.

Discerning that a person is still spiritually blind should not make us feel holier than thou, but pity for the person still in the dark. This is discernment with Mercy and gratitude to God for our blessings rather than pious self aggrandisement and disdain for those God has not appointed to be His vessels of Honor. God is always the potter and changes not.

Until and unless we are made able to judge with the Spirit of God, we shall not be able to.

http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html

God "judges" us by "chastening "(paideuo) us, which means, teaching, training, learning, disciplining, punishing, instructing, and educating. And God "graces" us also by this same "chastening" (paideuo) which does not change meaning from one Scripture verse to another. Notice how other translations render this word paideuo in Titus 2:11-12:

"Teaching us..." King James

"Instructing us..." American Standard Version

"Disciplining us... New Testament (Henry Alford)

"And schooling us..." The Centenary Translation (Montgomery)

"Training us..." The New Testament in Modern Speech (Weymouth)

Purpose for bible-truths.com
"[1] preach with sound doctrine and [2] refute those who contradict it"
[Titus 1:9 - The New Revised Standard Version]

Arc

That was quite helpful to me.

I suppose, too, that I am still "studying to show myself approved, rightly dividing the word of God"....."so that I will have an answer for the hope that is within me".

charrie

Deborah-Leigh · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2009, 10:13:14 AM »

It's a pleasure charrie.

Godly Judgement is of God's Spirit which requires discernment of Spiritual issues. We need to learn to discern.

Ungodly judgment is carnal that uses the law to make void the Grace and Mercy of God.

We as children of God are required to be judged and then to judge after we have received from God the experience and the knowledge of what is good and what is evil.

Christiandom would have all believe that judgment is taboo when actually it is a vital need. It is which kind of judgment do we use, Godly or carnal? Is our Judgment carnal, worldly, literal or is it Godly, Spiritual and Merciful and edifying of Gods Grace and Holiness.

To be or not to be.....carnal or spiritual.....that is the question.

Arc

meee · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2009, 11:46:41 AM »

Hey Kathy,
Not to excuse my attidude when I didn't reply to the cashier, but I was thinking about it and think I acted badly, because I've been strugeling within myself to understand what is expected of me. I have the understanding that these things have pagan roots, soooo should I not participate? But, I realize I didn't exhibit a Love attitude.
Sooooo thanks all for your comments, I take them to heart.
My kids have their husbands side of the family holiday meals, so sometimes I've told them, you don't have to come here too, you've already had the celebration. But, they say it wouldn't be the holiday if they didn't come home too, so there ya go, we have it here too. This year our pregnant daughter is having it at her new home in Minneapolis, for both sides of families. Our daughter that lives here in town has to work & my hubby is on call, so none of us will be going to Felicity's.
May 2nd we are going though to the cities for Felicity's baby shower, so expect some new pic's in my photobucket album . How did baby shower's come about, anyone know?
Anyhooo,thanks again everyone, all your comments are welcome and helpful for my growth.
Have a great week end,
luvya's,meee
PS: I don't see a spell check and I sure need one, forgive my spelling,please.

Quote from: Ninny on April 10, 2009, 06:32:34 PM

Just be kind when someone wishes you a happy day and say "Thank you!"
Kathy

Dave in Tenn · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2009, 12:14:00 PM »

Hi Charrie. Perhaps it's helpful to consider it another way. Ray's taught us that it's not wrong to know there is a beam in somebody else's eye. To me, one way I know this is because there is a beam in MY eye, and I am no different from them. What is foolish is to try to remove the beam from others while ours is still frimly lodged.

When I was growing up, we really didn't do all the 'pagan' things related to easter. I'm not saying I never went on an Easter egg hunt or got a basket on Sunday Morning, but that stopped when my folks got a little knowledge. Even then, there were still plenty of folks around to breathe fire on them (and by extension me) for not being as smart as THEY were. Blind guides.

No...instead we went to church like we did every Sunday morning and night (and wednesday night too) and prayed the prayer of the Pharisees--"Lord, thank you that I am not like these Easter Sunday Christians (who fill up the pews so we can't find a place to sit and make it difficult to get out of the parking lot early enough to hit the restaraunts staffed by the undgodly who never go to church and must surely be doomed to Hellfire). Please, Lord, cause them to rededicate their lives to you so that they may be as spiritual as me."

I tell you the truth, it took an awful lot to have been shown by God that I am the Beast on the throne, and that my entire life is anti-Christ--including my religion, as well as my gross carnality. I'm not too bothered by paganism. It's just another flavor to me in this sin, ideology, and religion saturated world. Everywhere I look in the scripture, the Spirit says to me to move on and know God.

There's a 'wandering' to the left, and a 'wandering' to the right. The path is straight and few there be who find it.

It sounds to me like He is straigtening your walk. God bless you.

aqrinc · « **Reply #19 on:** April 11, 2009, 02:48:43 PM »

A little different understanding i have now re: Why try to remove the mote from my friends eye, while the beam is obscuring my vision.

Perception from me, with the plank obscuring my vision.

1. My (friends, family et al) are all following pagan and ungodly practices and doctrines of demons.

2. Since i have a clearer vision, i need to point out and remove that speck (mote) from their life.

Reality when the plank is removed from my eyes.

1. There but for The Grace Of GOD; go i daily.

Eph 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

2. GOD'S Grace is Showing and Teaching me that my perspective is skewed, once my plank is removed;
i can now see that we all had the very same plank (condition). I am HIS Workmanship not my own product.

Mat 7: 3-5 (GW)
3 So why do you see the piece of sawdust in another believer's eye and not notice the wooden beam in your own eye?
4 How can you say to another believer, 'Let me take the piece of sawdust out of your eye,' when you have a beam in your own eye?
5 You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye. Then you will see clearly to remove the piece of sawdust from another believer's eye.

Mat 7: 3-5 (CLV)
3 "Now why are you observing the mote that is in your brother's eye, yet the beam in your eye you are not considering?
4 Or how will you be declaring to your brother, 'Brother, let me extract the mote out of your eye,' and lo! the beam is in your eye?
5 Hypocrite! Extract first the beam out of your eye, and then you will be keen-sighted to be extracting the mote out of your brother's eye.

george.

bible-truths.com/forums

News:

Author Topic: Heart of the Earth/3 Days (Read 15454 times)

Marky Mark

Deborah-Leigh

cherokee

meee

Marky Mark

meee

daywalker

meee

Ninny

daywalker

Deborah-Leigh

charrie

judith collier

Deborah-Leigh

cherokee

charrie

Deborah-Leigh

meee

aqrinc