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[daywalker]

If you're a baseball fan, you've probably heard of this. Me being an Angels fan, this news was extremely shocking to hear this morning:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/tributes/obit_nick_adenhart.jsp

May God be with his family, friends, and all those who knew him and his friends that were tragically taken. Really makes you kneel down in humility.. this can happen to anyone, at anytime, we just never know what's lying ahead of us...

 

[cjwood]

good evening daywalker,
i too was shocked to hear the sad news about nick a's tragic death. tragic in the manner that he died. i too said out loud that you just never know when it is your time. sometimes we live our lives not even thinking about the fact that the next minute might be out last, even with all the truths we have been shown through ray and the Spirit of Jesus Christ. and what is even more mind blowing is that even the seemingly senseless and cruel fact that rick's life and the lives of 2 others in the crash were ended by someone who ran a red light and fled the scene, was all known by our Sovereign Father before it happened and that the crash happened of His will and purpose. very hard to get ones' heart around that, but at the same time confirmed in our spirits that it is Truth. anyway, i just wanted to share that i too was saddened by the loss of nick.

claudia

[indianabob]

Dear Friend Claudia,

Just to be clear, are you saying that you think that God caused the accident "for His will and purpose"?  Are we to understand that God caused the other driver to disregard the red light?

Thank you for your response, Bob

[mharrell08]

Dear Friend Claudia,

Just to be clear, are you saying that you think that God caused the accident "for His will and purpose"?  Are we to understand that God caused the other driver to disregard the red light?

Thank you for your response, Bob

I think Claudia has it right when she states that this even happened according to the will of God. We never know how this event will be 'meant for good' in the lives of the people in this victim's life or even those who see/hear of this incident. But truly, all is of God.

Excerpt from '12 Truths' (http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm):

The most evil of people who have ever lived, did not live unto themselves, by themselves, independent of God, but rather, "in HIM they live, and move, and have their being."

For even the life of the criminal is sustained by God: or they would just fall apart and cease to exist:

"And He [Jesus] is before all things, and by Him ALL THINGS CONSIST [Gk: ‘hold together’]" (Col. 1:17).

Why is it that God tells us that "all is of God," but as many read their Bibles, they do not believe that all they are reading is "ALL of God?"

God gave Joseph a dream that he would be in a position of great power and that even his brothers and his father and mother would be bowing down to him. His brothers especially hated him for what they considered a haughty attitude toward them. They hated him so, that they were going to kill him, but Reuben saved him and they rather sold him into slavery down to Egypt. In Egypt Joseph went through his 13 years of trial and testing. Later his brothers were forced to seek food from Joseph, and they feared for their lives. They thought that Joseph was as evil as they. Joseph, however, had compassion on them and made the following marvelous statement of revelation concerning the workings of God:

"And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God? But as for you, ye thought EVIL AGAINST ME, but God MEANT IT UNTO GOOD, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive" (Gen. 50:19-20).

Notice that God did not "change" what they planned, or "turn" the evil that they planned into something good. No, God "meant IT," it being the whole scenario from start to finish, for good. God didn’t change anything or turn anything, rather God planned it to happen just as it happened FROM THE BEGINNING. God has never ever made a mid-stream correction in His original plan. God always knows the end of everything in the beginning: "Declaring the END from the BEGINNING…" (Isa. 46:10). But "Who will believe our report?"


Marques

[mharrell08]

I've been asked by a member to expound on this issue of 'God will and purpose' concerning this tragedy which befell this individual:


Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 15 A (http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html):

WHO HAS RESISTED GOD’S WILL?

So God has mercy upon whom He will have mercy and whom He wills, He hardens. But when I tell people that this is how God operates, they find fault with it. They say that isn’t fair. They say we are mere puppets if this is the way God operates. How can God blame and punish people for doing what God Himself caused them to do in the first place? The Apostle Paul got the same carnal-minded criticisms of God’s plan:

"You will say then unto me, Why does He [God] yet find fault? For who has resisted His will [Greek: boulema—‘resolve, purpose, a deliberate intention’]?" (Rom. 9:19).

This is an amazing Scripture. This Scripture shows the difference in attitude between those who understand God’s plan and will and those who do not.

After explaining to the Romans that God raised Pharaoh up for a specific purpose in God’s plan, Paul foresees the attitudes of his listeners. They will reason that if God is the One behind our actions, and we are totally incapable of doing other than what He determines we will do, then WHY DOES HE FIND FAULT WITH US WHEN WE SIN?

First it is most important that we look at and understand the word translated "will" in Rom. 9:19. It is not the usually Greek word, which is translated "will" hundreds of times in the New Testament. This Greek word boulema is used but twice in the Bible, here in Rom. 9:19 and in Acts 27:43 where it is translated "purpose."

So the question that Paul is setting up is not "…who has resisted His will?" but rather, "who has resisted His purpose [His plan, His intention]?"

To the question, "…who has resisted His will?" the answer is: EVERYONE! But when properly translated, to the question, "who has resisted His purpose?" the answer is: ABSOLUTELY NO ONE!

God has a will and God has a plan and purpose to reach that will. And no small part of reaching His desired will is to set men against His will, just as He did with Pharaoh. But no one has ever hindered God’s plan and purpose in reaching that goal and stated will. God’s will, will be done in His time.

So back to Paul’s questioners: If God causes us to do what we do, and no one ever has or ever can go against or resist that purpose of God, why does He blame us when we sin? And again, I will let Paul answer, since the question was directed to him. But you know what? Paul does not even deign to answer their question. That’s right, Paul proposes the question and then does not directly answer it. He considers the very question itself too demeaning, if not blasphemous to answer. Instead He says this:

"Nay but, O man, WHO ARE YOU that replies against God? Shall the thing formed [that’s us] say to Him that formed it, [that’s GOD] Why have You made me thus? Has not the Potter [GOD] power over the clay [man], of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" (Rom. 9:20-21).


Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 15 C (http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html):

GOD CAUSES EVIL IN THE CITY

Let’s take a close look at that last Scripture in our list:

“…shall there be evil [Heb: ra—‘bad, evil’] in a city, and the Lord has not done it? (Amos 3:6)

There’s the question; what’s the answer? The answer from all Christendom is “Yes.” “Yes” there shall be all kinds of evil in a city, and the Lord has not done it. In fact, according to their teaching, the Lord does no evil in any city, ever. World famous teacher/preacher/theologian/author, Billy Graham said before a packed house in the National Cathedral, that GOD DOES    NOT CREATE EVIL.  But what saith the Scriptures (Amos 3:4-6):

“Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"

Answer: NO!

“Will a lion roar in the forest, when he has not prey?"

Answer: NO!

“Will a young lion cry out of his den, if he have taken nothing?"

Answer: NO!

“Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin [baited trap] is for him?"

Answer: NO!

“Shall one take up a snare [shall a snare spring up] from the earth, and have taken [caught] nothing at all?"

Answer: NO!

“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?"

Answer: NO!

“Shall there be EVIL in a city and the LORD HAS NOT DONE IT?"

Answer: NO!

The Answer is “NO”!

I am now speaking to the mature only. This information is too heavy, too hard, too overwhelming for the carnal-minded person.   Have you ever wondered just where it is that the proverbial “rubber meets the road?” Well, right here is where the rubber meets the road. If you don’t accept; if you cannot accept, if you will not accept the truth of all these double-witness Scriptures presented above, then you will never understand God’s plan of salvation for the human race.

Seven times in Amos 3 God asks us a question, and SEVEN TIMES THE ANSWER IS “NO”! NO, there shall not be EVIL in a city [any city—all cities] unless THE LORD HAS DONE IT! The truth of this Scripture (along with hundreds and hundreds like it) is so powerful, so absolutely earth-shattering, that the mere fact of me quoting it and suggesting that it is a true statement, will evoke hate mail from far and wide.

The world of Christendom will not tolerate, anyone quoting these Scriptures and then teaching that they are true and factual as to the character of our Great Creator God. They do not approve of God “creating” evil, nor do they approve of God “using” evil—even if God’s use of evil always eventuates in the GREATEST POSSIBLE ETERNAL GOOD.

It never dawns on their carnal minds for one moment that God might cause and use these unspeakable evils for a great and redeeming purpose beyond our wildest dreams or expectations. Unless we can see the plan, the purpose, the Goal of God for the human race, we will never see or be able to justify the hard, and painful, and difficult, and humanly impossible journey through evil to reach that marvelous eternal goal that God has purposed in Himself and our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!

God does not reproduce Himself as Sons and Daughters of God, in His Own Image and Likeness, with His own Love, Power, and Eternal Glory, by using a cookie cutter and a sheet of Styrofoam. Do we think that the Awesome Creator of the universe is little more than “sugar and spice and everything nice?” Listen: God knows all about “evil”:

“And the Lord God said, behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil…”  (Gen. 3:22).


Marques

[Samson]

Good Post & Point Marques,

                                      We don't know what kind of effect that this tragedy might have on the
                                      victims and Family members regarding Nick Ardenhart's Death. As an
                                      example: I saw his Agent this Morning on the news being interviewed
                                      and crying about this tragedy and I realized that never have I witnessed
                                      a Baseball Agent crying about anything, I usually picture them solely
                                      concerning themselves about money and view them as greedy.

                                      Also, his death might "cause" some people to taste some humility, one
                                      team mate expressing how it could happen to anyone of us, at even such
                                      a young age and even a  "decent" person like Nick Ardenhart realizing,
                                      when it's your time to die, it's going to happen and we are powerless to
                                      stop it.

                                       See the part of Marques quote below in blue color print.

                                       I think Claudia has it right when she states that this even happened according to the will of God. We never know how this event will be 'meant for good' in the lives of the people in this victim's life or even those who see/hear of this incident. But truly, all is of God.


                                       Yes some good could result for the family of the victim
                                                         and other's, even the one who caused the accident,
                                                         perhaps being greatly humbled, something God had planned
                                                         for his benefit and correction.


                                          Just my thoughts, Samson.

[Marky Mark]

  As Ray teaches, there is cause,and there is an effect, all being from God.
  We all make choices in our lives, some good ,some not so good .Our Father in heaven deemed it necessary for all to make a choice, of matters of concern, in ones own individual heart.How else are we to learn from our mistakes and to learn righteousness if not by Gods own purpose and plan for humanity,we have to believe that God is in control,because if He isn't ,why are we even here? God is sovereign,its all of Him.


Peace...Mark



Email to Ray
 
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2354.0.html

Dear Whirlwind:

You are not understanding this subject and the principle behind it. You ask: "Is it man making the choices or is it God's predestination of things?"  It is BOTH.  Listen:  God is SOVEREIGN! Man therefore has NO FREE WILL OR NO FREE CHOICE.  That's it. That's all there is to it.  That IS the principle. That IS the Truth.  That IS what the Bible teaches.  It is not a contradiction to say that "Man makes his own choices."  You and millions of other just think it is a contradiction to say man makes his own choices if indeed God is sovereign and God is behind all in His creation.  It is not a contradiction. It only sounds like a contradiction for those who do not believe that "God is Sovereign, and Man has no free will."

I hardly know what else to tell you.  God made man's heart. Man did not make his own heart, or his body, or his mind, or his brain, or his will, or his hopes and dreams.  They are all PREDESTINATED by the foreknowledge of God.  So then we don't make choices, right?  NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO....WE DO MAKE CHOICES.  It's just that they are CAUSED by things we can't always see.  Sometimes we can see what makes our choices and some times we can't, but either way THEY ARE CAUSED.  And God, not us, already knows in advance the outcome of all of those caused choices. How does He do that?  He is very smart (has over a 150 IQ), plus HE IS SOVEREIGN, ALL WISE, AND ALL POWERFUL.....and don't forget LOVE.

So, does God FORCE EVIL MEN TO RAPE LITTLE GIRLS?  Well, does He?  Does God being Sovereign prove that God forces evil men to rape little girls?  That's what evil theologians deduce from the truth of no free will.  They turn the Sovereignty of God into one of the biggest evils in the universe. If God is Sovereign, then God must be EVIL, because there is so much evil in the world, and God is in control of all things, right?  Wrong, wrong, wrong!  Man makes all his own choices. Just because they are CAUSED does not mean that he does not make them.  He is, in fact, CAUSED TO MAKE HIS CHOICES. But God does not directly do this. He is responsible, but He does not directly cause those choices. Things like the Devil do such things.  And who created the Devil?  That's right, that One Who is Sovereign and in charge of all things.  Evil men like raping just like evil theologians like stealing widow's social security money.  God doesn't make them do it--THEY LIKE TO DO IT.  They volunteer with little outside influence.  God made humanity this way. He created them spiritually weak.  Eve couldn't help but sin.  God has a good purpose and God will straighten it all out in the end.

I guess I could just keep writing and writing and writing and one day someone will say................OHHHHHH, now I get it.  Maybe today is your day. I'm pulling for ya!!!

God be with you,

Ray

[Marlene]

Hello, I agree with all that Marques has presented that Ray teaches. Only after believing all this have I been able to explain most of the things that caused me to do things I did not even think I would do. There was a cause for everything I have done in my life. Some good choices and some very poor choices. But, now I look back on it all and I see Gods hand in it all. I have walked the steps he has directed. I could say why now God what a waste of my life. But, he knew before I was born what steps he would lead me to take. I can wish I was younger, when I knew all these truths. But, it is all in his time and not mine.

Also, My sister was raped years ago. We never could find the man. She became pregnant from this rape. She almost lost the baby several times. It was Gods plan that this baby exist. Now, for several years My Father had cheated on my Mother and was abusive. But, he also, loved us. He became ill and had to retire at age 48. We expected him to die while I was in high school. But, what I am trying to show is through this babies birth My family all united. Including My Father. He knew, she needed a Father and he gave her his all. This grown woman now is taking care of my Sister who is paralyzed on her left side from a stroke. So, many awesome things happen from all these things. My Dad became so dedicated to the baby. He lived to see her raised and in her second year of college. My father was a changed man. Our whole family became so close. Now, I share things with my niece now but she has alot on her with working and care of her Mother. She is a beautiful human being inside and out. She has given up her personal life to take care of her Mother.

Well, I just wanted to show how God works in even bad things. How could we ever believe we have free will. I have done things before I would never have done. Those were  done by causes. Some of those choices were good some bad. But, they led me here. I am perfectly happy with however God directes my steps.

In His Love,
Marlene

[mharrell08]

Thank you Marlene...these are the kinds of comments that edify the body of Christ; ones that testify of good things coming in spite of the evil events in life.


Thanks again,

Marques

[aqrinc]

GOD IS; And GOD Is In Control, Joseph knew this and it is recorded for us. As Ray teaches over and over; GOD Is The Causer Of Everything. A few Scriptures to show Who is The Cause of whatever we foolishly think we free will into existence.

Gen 50: 20-22 (MKJV)
20  But as for you, you thought evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save a great many people alive.
21  And now do not fear. I will nourish you and your little ones. And he comforted them, and spoke to their hearts.
22  And Joseph lived in Egypt, he and his father's house. And Joseph lived a hundred and ten years.

And here is more of Scripture that Ray has written about to Show GOD'S Control in many different papers.

Isa 45: 5-9 (CLV)
5 I am Yahweh Elohim, and there is none else. There is no Elohim except Me. I am belting (girding, strenghtening) you, yet you do not know Me."
6 That they may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is a limit apart (none else) from Me. I am Yahweh Elohim, and there is none else."
7 Former of light and Creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil. I, Yahweh Elohim, made all of these things."
8 Drip, you heavens, from above, and the skies shall distil righteousness. The earth shall open, and it shall bud salvation. And righteousness shall sprout together with it, I, Yahweh, create it."
9 Will anyone contend with his Former? The earthenware with the ceramists? Is the clay saying to its potter, `What are you making?' And your contrivance, `No hands has he'?

george.

[judith collier]

Marlene, how very generous of your sister to carry the baby to full term. Not many would do that. I had trouble with this WILL OF GOD WAY for awhile but not now. Humility goes a long way . God will do what He deigns to do, period. Such good from God that this child grew up to care for her mother, of course God knew the mother would need someone in the future. I have a very, very old book written by a Catholic priest, Jeremias Drexelius. He lived in the 1600's. It is called The Heliotropium, the word comes from the Greek, helio meaning sun and tropos meaning turn.  The sunflower is always turned towards the sun. This analogy represents the attitude of the faithful soul toward the Will of God. Whenever (and if I remember)something is hard to accept in my life I get this book out and read, it is a very easy read but quite redundant. I recommend it to everybody on this site, it fits in perfectly with Ray's teachings. Judy

[cjwood]

Dear Friend Claudia,

Just to be clear, are you saying that you think that God caused the accident "for His will and purpose"?  Are we to understand that God caused the other driver to disregard the red light?

Thank you for your response, Bob



hi bob and all the other of my brothers and sisters who have replied to this thread. in my post response i was trying to put forth that even a seemingly senseless tragedy like the collision that ended the life of rick and the other 2 people, was of God's Will and will be worked according to His Purpose. it is my spiritual understanding that God brings about circumstances in our lives in which we make choices to do this or that, BUT, He knows what the end result of our choices will be. in the circumstance of the driver who disregarded the red light causing the death of rick and the others, if the circumstance which caused the accident had not been of God's Will, it would have never happened.

claudia

[gmik]

Very helpful thread.

This is not on the scope as death is, but here is my little story from yesterday.

I was at school, in the workroom, running copies and then cutting up flash cards on the paper cutter.  While cutting I was daydreaming about the weekend...I was going to go swimming, I was going to stop by a friends' dad's funeral visitation, I was going to have my grand daughter over for swimming, I was...I was....I was cutting my thumb near off!!!!

Only needed 5 stitches in the ER!  But now I have a huge thingy on my thumb and wrist and a sling!...can't get it wet, don't keep it below heart etc etc.....

I don't know why this had to happen....why couldn't I do all that I was planning on doing???  I dunno!!  But it was God's will. 

I need to remember to say "If the Lord Will's, I will do such and such"

We need to live each day to the fullest.  We don't know how long our time is here. Love one another and serve God to the best we are able.  Trust Him in all things.

I don't know why this young pitcher had to go like that. but he did call his dad and tell him to get out to see him pitch! It will all make sense one day!!

[cjwood]

gena,
ooouuucchhh!  so very sorry to hear about your thumb. is on the hand that you write with? i know that had to have hurt. and again it is true, that even something like what happened to your thumb was of God's purpose. nothing is of coincidence, and nothing is because of luck. take care of your thumb (and the rest of yourself too!)

claudia

[gmik]

 :-*Thanks Claudia!