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Accountability and responsibility
aqrinc:
--- Quote from: mhykx on April 12, 2009, 04:47:54 AM ---Ocean,
I once thought they are the same.
But as I study the word of God, read the stuff here in B-T, ask from God the Father the wisdom and understanding, I began to understand the difference between the two. And you will too, Ocean. Just be patient.
The subject of free will alone is fascinating....and liberating! When you begin to understand the sovereignty of God, you begin to have true peace of mind because you no longer depend on your own strength but in grace and mercy of God.
God, in due time, will direct you to steps on how you can quit your smoking.
Heb 4:16 Let us have confidence, then, and approach God's throne, where there is grace. There we will receive mercy and find grace to help us just when we need it.
-Mike
--- End quote ---
Mike,
That is very well written; indeed you are guilty of doing your homework ;D. That Scripture is a perfect answer to Oceans question. Here are a few more Scriptures to answer why the struggle is with us (until That Day).
Rom 8: (19-25 GNB)
19 All of creation waits with eager longing for God to reveal his children.
20 For creation was condemned to lose its purpose, not of its own will, but because God willed it to be so. Yet there was the hope
21 that creation itself would one day be set free from its slavery to decay and would share the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22 For we know that up to the present time all of creation groans with pain, like the pain of childbirth.
23 But it is not just creation alone which groans; we who have the Spirit as the first of God's gifts also groan within ourselves as we wait for God to make us his children and set our whole being free.
24 For it was by hope that we were saved; but if we see what we hope for, then it is not really hope. For who of us hopes for something we see?
25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
george. :)
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Ocean
When I first came to the teaching that expounds the differences between accountability and responsibility, I too was astounded.
I can only tell you what I believe and then point you to the Scriptures and the Teachings.
Luke 18 : 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to ME A SINNER.
When we see that we miss the mark here and we miss the mark there, we are seeing the mote not the beam.
The publican realised he was a sinner. God brings each one of us to this realisation and it is a most painful process.
God first causes you to hate the sin (missing the mark) seeing the mote. At this point we will not necessarily realise that we sin automatically because of what we are. We are carnal. God is Responsible for making you NOT LIKE to sin anymore. It is His work that causes you to begin to suffer from the bondage to sin.
Rom 8 : 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope.
It is GOD Who does the CREATING and it is GOD Who does the SUBJECTING http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html
God is responsible for subjecting us to vanity. This is how God begins His Work to make us into His Image. He subjects us to carnality, flesh, blindness, deafness and everything that contrasts to and with His Spirit. This is the Plan and Purpose of God. It is a process.
As long as we like to sin, we shall keep right on sinning. As we learn to dispare of sin, appeal to God, cry to Him, then accept that sin is not only what we DO but that we sin because of what we ARE then we begin to see the deeper significance of repentance. Ref http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html .
"Let no man [‘let not any person,’ RSV, ‘Let no ONE…’] deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY first, and that man of sin [Gk: the lawless one] be revealed, the son of perdition [Gk: the one destined for destruction]. Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God [a god], or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God"
Whenever man builds his spiritual house upon the spiritual sand, his spiritual house will fall. And it is then that God reveals to him the wild beast that comes out of the sea. What does Paul tell us happens when there comes a ‘FALLING AWAY’ first? What follows? When our house on sand falls, what is then revealed? Why "the LAWLESS one" is "REVEALED." When the falling away occurs, then the man of sin, ‘the lawless one’ ‘the one destined for destruction’ is REVEALED.
And what a revelation it is! What a blast of the trumpet it is! What a shock to all humanity when at long last this wild beast is revealed to EVERYONE! Trust me when I tell you that it is a hard pill to swallow. It will shake you to your sandy foundation.
As I am now at the end of this Part XIII, I don’t want to close without revealing just who it is that constitutes the wild beast of Revelation 13 and the lawless one of II Thes. 2. I did title this Installment: Who is the Beast? And so I will tell you.
"So okay Ray, enough, TELL US WHO THE BEAST IS. Who? Tell us WHO?"
The "beast" is you!http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html
This is by far more important than seeing that we have a fault here and a sin there. Knowing this is by far more valuable that a slight tweak to alter our habits or releave us from our perceived one or two little imperfections.
The beam in the eye is us. We are out of Adam not heaven. We need a make over not just a slight adjustment or upgrade.
Why should we be accountable for our enjoyment of sin if God make us that way? God DOES NOT ENJOY SIN and God is making us into HIS image that is not carnal. Is God jealous that we get the enjoyment from sinning. NO! Carnality enjoys sin. We are carnal and God is Spirit. God's ways are not the ways of carnality. God is Spirit and Truth.
Can we change ourselves? No we can not change our sinning automatically carnal literal spiritual blindness and deafness that resents and hates the Spirit of God. God is Responsible for changing us because it is only by His Spirit and His Goodness that we can ever be converted and made into the Spiritual image of Christ. This is Gods work and achievement not ours. And for the magnificent Work of God making us into His Image, He shall have ALL the Glory. Why? Because HE is Responsible and we are His work not our own.
As Ray teaches, It is GOD Who does the CREATING and it is GOD Who does the SUBJECTING http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html
It is also God who liberates us from our sin and changes us by His Spirit from what and who we are to what and who HE IS. God is Spirit and Truth. God is making us into HIS image out of our carnal sinful selves. The pains of our imperfections is part of the process, Plan and Purpose of God. Should we be grateful for our sins and imperfections? No. Should we be grateful that God subjects us to carnality to an experience of evil that HE will liberate, convert and change us from into His Spirit and Truth. Yes!
Rom 8 : 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope.
I hope this comforts and helps you.
Arc
Roy Coates:
Ocean, I re read this thread and Realized I forgot a piece of information that could be usefull to you in your and anybody's quest to stop smoking. I used it as well as my wife and friends. Folks that took it for three months or more had a higher success rate. I was able to quit after two weeks and still smoke free. It is expensive and is not covered under most insurance.
http://www.chantix.com/
Roy Martin:
Hello Ocean,
I have struggled with this smoking thing so much that I'm starting to feel like I'm pathetic.
I had all these questions and prayers of begging to be delivered and now I'm smoking twice as much, but something is happening. I can see the desire going away. Every time I start to light one or even have the thought, or buy them, and as I'm smoking one I am pathetic to say the least.
I cant get it off my mind that Jesus gave up His life for us in a very brutal way, and we cant give up cigarettes for Him. I am pathetic and weak, but I am going to be delivered from smoking. I know this as sure as the sun will rise and set.
When I got out of prison 5 years ago,it was the second week of going to church, my sister was going with me.It was her second time to go, she was so excited and on fire for God. As we were in the car on the way, I said to her that God was going to bless me with a car today. She asked, how could I know this and what if He doesn't? I said," watch and see, I promise that God is going to give me a car today. We walked into the church Five minutes later, and as we entered the doors of the sanctuary a friend was standing there with a woman. We do the greet thing and he asked, hey Roy, do you need a car? I looked at my sister and her jaw almost hit the floor. I said heck yes I do, he said this woman here was just telling me she wants to give a car away. Its yours go get it.
The point of this story is that God gave me great faith when I asked him just before going to church for a car. It was Him that put the prayer in me. It is Him that is making me feel pathetic when I smoke, and I have the same kind of faith now as I had when I got the car.
I don't know if I'm making any sense to you. I'm not very good at expressing things.
I am going to make the choice soon to put them down w/o looking back because this is the choice God wants me to make,and its the choice I want to make, but first God has to change my heart from wanting to quit because it will kill me, ( self ) to wanting to quit for Him and not myself.
I hope this helps you.
Peace
Roy Martin
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Roy Martin
You wrote that God...
--- Quote ---It is Him that is making me feel pathetic when I smoke,
--- End quote ---
and
--- Quote ---God has to change my heart from wanting to quit because it will kill me, ( self ) to wanting to quit for Him and not myself.
--- End quote ---
Here are a few email excerpts from Ray that relate to your experience which I believe we can all enjoy because sin is common to us all.
The ONLY way that I know of to break these sins and have victory over them is for God to empower you with a greater motivation to live righteously than to live un-righteously. If what you desire to be is "good," then there is only One Source:
"And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labor, It is the gift of God" (Ecc. 3:13).
"EVERY good gift and EVERY perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning" (James 1:17).
We will continue to pray for all those who desire to come out of the bondage and slavery of "...the sin which does so easily beset us...." (Heb. 12:1) http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7111.0.html
God gives us an experience of "evil"--things that are wrong (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Literal New Testament), so that we will learn and desire to do what is RIGHT. This spiritual truth is entirely too high for the carnal mind to comprehend.
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1189.0.html
When one sins willfully or voluntarily, it means that he has lost his conscience about those particular sins. He feels no guilt nor shame for committing them. We all sin, but sin is not to "reign" over us, as Paul admonishes. When we sin, we should recognize it as sin, and feel shame, and repent, and go on. Once we feel no guilt nor shame, there only remains "judgment" which will assuredly remove (through fiery trials and purging) these "adversaries" that plague the human race.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7848.0.html
But the "lust of the flesh and the lust of the eys and the pride of life," are the biggies that God will allow to drag on in one's life until they really get sick of these sins. Some people never get sick of these sins--they LIKE them. But the "Goodness of God" (Rom. 2:4) can make you repent and abhore these things. We never conquer every sin as long as we are in the flesh, but we can come to the place that "sin no longer REIGNS over us." I have no desire to sin. I do not think about sinning. There is nothing in the realm of sin that has any value to me. I'll let Jesus be my Judge as to how far I have come in overcoming sin. You have to cry out to God to rescue from sin. You cannot and you will not do it on your own power.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4069.0.html
Arc
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