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Author Topic: Ever notice this?  (Read 6148 times)

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Daniel

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Ever notice this?
« on: June 06, 2006, 01:27:49 PM »

I wanted to share something but before I do that I had to ask of this thing to clear one thing first because it would most likely be the wall to hurdle the thought (in my thinking).

Did you guys ever notice two comparable traits concerning Gods anger or wrath and Satan himself? Both are either for a "moment" or "his time is short". Take for instance David numbering Isreal as one example.

Concerning David numbering Isreal notice it says  "THE ANGER" of the LORD was kindled against Israel, Yet SATAN stood AGAINST Isreal.  Both The Anger of the Lord and Satan are seen here right?

Remember when Paul said, "God will judge those without" but he handed over that "wicked servant" unto Satan and put him out?

"Woe to you" is associated with Him :lol: Yet at the same time "short" and but "for a moment" as both Satan and/or Gods wrath (anger) is.

Ever notice that?

Did you also ever notice in the parable of the servant that was "forgiven" this "same servant" went out and had no mercy on his fellowservants "tresspass"? That the wicked servant (who had himself been forgiven) laid hands on the one who tresspassed and handed him over to prison?

To whom did His Lord hold accountable the one who tresspassed or the one who had not forgiven? I have a point trust me, I'm just wondering about a couple things because this has been on my mind recently. Paul adresses this man in both epistles 1 and 2 Corinthians and Paul being an ensample as He himself speaks can be seen in the parable especially in the wording. I'll ask you guys first.

Daniel
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Andy_MI

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Re: Ever notice this?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2006, 03:47:48 PM »

Quote from: Daniel


Did you also ever notice in the parable of the servant that was "forgiven" this "same servant" went out and had no mercy on his fellowservants "tresspass"? That the wicked servant (who had himself been forgiven) laid hands on the one who tresspassed and handed him over to prison?

To whom did His Lord hold accountable the one who tresspassed or the one who had not forgiven? I have a point trust me, I'm just wondering about a couple things because this has been on my mind recently. Paul adresses this man in both epistles 1 and 2 Corinthians and Paul being an ensample as He himself speaks can be seen in the parable especially in the wording. I'll ask you guys first.

Daniel


Hi Daniel,

I'd have to say that the Lord held accountable the one who had not forgiven.


Mat 6:14  For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Mat 6:15  But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Mar 11:25  And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have aught against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

2Co 5:19  To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Col 2:13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Andy
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Daniel

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Ever notice this?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2006, 04:25:05 PM »

Andy I see it the same way. I have a "wait on this one" but it was building a bit because there are a few questionable places in it. Its the only one that is throwing my judgment study into a spin. If it does that I need to look closer at it, I understand that so I'm doing "just that".


In Mathew 18, the parable starts out as one being forgiving a debt he could not pay right?
 
Mathew 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.[/u] (because he could not "pay it" it was forgiven right?)

Now listen...
 
Math 18:28 But the SAME SERVANT went out, and found one of his FELLOW SERVANTS, which owed him an hundred pence: and he LAID HANDS ON HIM, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
 
Math 18:29 And his fellow servant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, HAVE PATIENCE WITH ME, and I will pay thee all.


A fellow servant, handed over?
 
1Cr 5:12-13 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? Do you not judge those that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore PUT AWAY THE WICKED PERSON from among you
 
Math 18:30 And HE WOULD NOT; but "cast him into prison", till he should pay the debt.
 
 
Math 18:31 So when his fellow servants saw what was done, THEY WERE VERY SORRY, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
 

2Cr 2:2 For IF I MADE YOU SORRY, who is he then that maketh me glad, BUT THE SAME WHICH IS MADE SORRY BY ME?[/u]

Giving an "Account" of yourself, judged by The Lord, the wicked servant is NOT FORGIVING the TRESSPASS.
 

Math 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, "I FORGAVE THEE" ALL THAT DEBT, because thou desiredst me:
 

Math 18:32 SHOULDEST THOU NOT ALSO have HAD COMPASSION on THY FELLOW SERVANT, even as I had pity on thee?
 
Math 18:34 And HIS LORD WAS WROTH, and delivered him TO THE TORMENTORS, "till" he should pay all that was "due unto him".
 
Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (God is not a respecter of persons)
 


2Cr 2:4-6 FOR OUT OF MUCH ANGUISH OF HEART I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved,but that "ye might know the love" which I HAVE MORE ABUNDANTLY UNTO YOU. But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: THAT I MIGHT NOT OVERCHARGE YOU. Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
 

Math 18:25 So likewise shall my heavenly Father DO ALSO UNTO YOU, IF YE FROM YOUR HEARTS FORGIVE NOT every one "his brother" THEIR TRESSPASSES.[/u]
 

Change of mind

2Cr 2:7 So that CONTRARYWISE you OUGHT TO FORGIVE HIM, and COMFORT, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.



2Cr 2:8 Wherefore I BESEECH YOU that ye would CONFIRM YOUR LOVE TOWARD HIM.[/u]

 
2Cr 2:9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.[/u]

 
2Cr 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ[/u]

 
2Cr 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
 
The very one Paul handed this man over to. See the comparisons between these, knowing Paul was an ensample to show the loving kindness of God, yet God not being a respecter of persons and God judging Paul not man? I'm not yet convinced. But as you picked up on the parable that it was NOT the man who trespassed who was accountable to the Lord but the one who did NOT forgive the tresspass. So one is seen as being wicked in the eyes of Paul, but in the parable the wicked man was he that "forgave not". See what I'm talking about? Then see the "change of mind in Paul" as He quickly admonishes them to forgive this man. No one received any damage and the other had felt ssorrowful for what he had done, so all was good in the end.

Just interesting thats all.

Daniel
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eutychus

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Ever notice this?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2006, 04:28:48 PM »

Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, [the same] loveth little.
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Daniel

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Ever notice this?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2006, 04:52:00 PM »

Quote from: eutychus
Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, [the same] loveth little.


Great verse Euty,

James 2:16 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Zech 7:9 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

Isaiah 28:6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

1Cr 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

Isaiah 26:9 ... for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Daniel
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Daniel

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Ever notice this?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2006, 07:42:54 PM »

Quote from: bobbys43
I don't know if this has anything to do with this but this thought just came to me!

 Christ says that we(the elect) will judge  the world and we will also judge the angels. I Cor. 6:2-3

 It just seems to me that if we cannot forgive those that have done bad things to us(love your enemies)in this life and say we follow Christ we are liars and know not the truth.

 Sounds like the church who seem to think they are righteous in all they do(works) but yet deny him in word and deed.

Like this is some real revelation that you all don't already know but that is what I see out of this.

Forgive me for being a tard at times! :roll:

bobby


Your not a tard :lol:  I'm a bigger one  :wink:


Exactly Bobby, isn't forgiving others walking in obedience to Him? If walking in obedience to "that" then I would see the wisdom in God giving judgment to the saints in that regard. Then not to those who do not walk obediently to this command. Not only with word but from "the heart" thats His doing as His love manifests showing us how this is possible with Him.


Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.[/u]

I think that verse is up for dispute (?) Not sure but I can see this played out in a couple of places. There were two groups, "goats" (religious in nature coming in his name) and "sheep" (the other group). They were separated by the Lord through the "third group", which were "his brethren". Christ in them. So every eye sees Him yet they did not "perceive Him" who is a sign to be "spoken against". Notice their "speeches" and "deeds". Knowing the "good" they ought do and do it not sinneth?

Done unto (as in harm?)

Mathew 25:30 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Did "not do unto" (as in good?)

Mathew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.[/u]

Way above its "to convince" the ungodly and here once is "convinced"

1Cr 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:  And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so "falling down on his face" he will worship GOD, and REPORT that God is IN YOU of a truth.

Sounds like

Romans 2:6 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


I'm looking at similarities here

Rev 5:9  Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.[/u]

1John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.[/u]

The least of "these" my brethren.

So I'm wondering, what would judging the world look like if we are not to judge them yet God does and on what basis? Is it not their own words (Jesus said) would justify or condemn us? Then would not their own "speeches" spoken against HIM who is within them, the very words and deeds they are judged by?

Often we exclaim, "we will judge the world" but how? As shown above, even in part it seems ones faith condemns the world (as in the pattern) and every tongue that rises against YOU thou shalt condemn in "that respect" being our own words condemn ourselves see what I'm thinking?

So it would still be true that the saints who come with Him judge the world, but is it out of our mouths? Or is it the direction of their own lips against Him (who they saw yet did not perceive) that condemned themselves? Thats what I'm giving grreat thought. All would be true.

Again, they that "know not God" (Here) but in revelation they "say" they DO but LIE as John also affirms concerning loving our brethen.

2Thes 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:[/u]

2Thes 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting  destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from "the glory" of his power;[/u]

2Thes 1:10 When he shall come to "be glorified" in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because "our testimony" among you was believed) in that day.

This is not a heaven or hell thing because those in the end of the picture go into eternal life (which is to know the Lord) and John gives record of this, even as an "entrance" is "ministered unto us" into the Kingdom. An open door that he sets before us, opened only by Him. The others shut out from His presence or power as seen here.

See what I'm seeing here?

Daniel
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lilitalienboi16

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Ever notice this?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2006, 12:48:03 AM »

Wait i think i get it, tell me if im wrong..

God says the Saints will Judge the world.

WE JUDGE THE WORLD BY NOT JUDGING THEM.

Am i right?

If i am, hip hip hurraaaaaaaaay :D

If not then........ eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee i need more help understanding the concept ;)
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Daniel

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Ever notice this?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2006, 01:32:23 AM »

Alex thats how I'm seeing it more and more. I gathered a huge study I have been working on for sometime. The more I weigh the words concerning judgment the more convinced I am. What threw me off a little was the above posting concerning the wicked servant, I'm finding these everywhere (even below) concerning forgiveness. When I have it finished I hope to post it from the various angles it speaks from.



John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son[/u]:



John 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.[/u]



John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because "I seek not mine own will", but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


Zach 7:9 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute TRUE judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:[/u]


John 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is TRUE:[/u] for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.


Mathew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.[/u]


Psalms 37:26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.[/u]


Mathew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.[/u]


The wicked servant which was forgiven did not pay back that forgiveness to others


Psalm 37:21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.[/u]


Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: "condemn not", and ye shall not be condemned: "forgive", and ye shall be forgiven:[/u]


Isaiah 28:6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment[/u]


James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and "mercy rejoiceth against judgment".[/u]


God bless

Daniel
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chrissiela

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Ever notice this?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2006, 09:49:58 AM »

Seems to me that judgment, at least in some senses, is discernment.  This is how I see "thou hast rightly judged".

When we "try the spirits" to see whether they be of God or not, we are discerning or judging these things (or the people for whom they apply).

Paul said:

    Gal 1:8  
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.[/list:u]

And here we have:

    1Co 6:3  
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?[/list:u]

See what I mean?

How about judging OURSELVES.

    1Co 11:28  But
let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

1Co 11:29  For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

1Co 11:30  For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

1Co 11:31  For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

1Co 11:32  But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.[/list:u]

And I see that being done from the INSIDE out (by having Christ in you); that is why God judges those who are "without". Judging NO man, and being judged by no man... yet being chastened of the Lord (His judgment, in that He gives us the ability to judge ourselves, etc) all at the same time.  :roll:  :lol:  :lol:

    Act 13:46  And Paul and Barnabas spake out boldly, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first be spoken to you. Seeing
ye thrust it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.[/list:u]

A great study for sure... and certainly not an 'easy' one.  :shock:

Chrissie
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eutychus

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Ever notice this?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2006, 09:56:45 AM »

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Jhn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.


inhabitants means to dwell, dwellers.

there are two types that dwell in the earth.

have you cast the beast out of you, the temple??

does Christ DWELL in you??

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.



only those who have not cast darkness out can have devils dwelling in them  


Act 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me

2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


who wants to sit in the temple?

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


the beast dwells in the dust/flesh.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life


the future is NOW.

lets put on the spiritual glasses and see what is real.


love
euty
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mercie

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Ever notice this?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2006, 10:06:03 AM »

Great Thread!!

Merciful being similar to compassion, I do so love these few scriptures

Psa 78:36 Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues.  


 Psa 78:37 For their heart was not right with him, neither were they stedfast in his covenant.  

 Psa 78:38 But he, [being] full of compassion, forgave [their] iniquity, and destroyed [them] not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath.


 Psa 78:39 For he remembered that they [were but] flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.  

Psa 86:15 But thou, O Lord, [art] a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.


Psa 111:4 He hath made his wonderful works to be remembered: the LORD [is] gracious and full of compassion.



Psa 112:4 Unto the upright there ariseth light in the darkness: [he is] gracious, and full of compassion, and righteous

Psa 145:8 The LORD [is] gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.



Isa 49:15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee


Mic 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Mat 9:36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

1Pe 3:8 Finally, [be ye] all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, [be] pitiful, [be] courteous:


1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
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orion77

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Ever notice this?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2006, 10:10:58 AM »

Quote from: bobbys43
I love this verse!

John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

and if you continue through verses 48-50

  He that rejecteth me and recieveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that this commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


BEEEAAUUUUTTTIIIFFFFUUULLLL!!!!!!!!   :lol:  :lol:  8)

Great words, bobby.  Now we love towards God, towards our neighbors, towards our enemies.  Opposite from the beastly love we used to possess.  Getting to know Jesus has great rewards.  

God bless,

Gary

 I see also that we must judge ourselves and then, and only then, will we be able to show love and mercy of and through Christ, for all have sinned and I am no better than anyone! Sinner or saint.
 What was the commandment that the Father gave Christ?

 Matt.22:37-40  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

bobby
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