> General Discussions
Question: How can a man go against God's will?
Amrhrasach:
--- Quote from: Samson on April 22, 2009, 10:58:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: mhykx on April 22, 2009, 10:22:58 PM ---If what we are to choose is the only choice (whether the result will be bad or good) then technically there isn't any wrong choice. When the outcome is bad, carnal mind tend to judge that what is chosen is wrong. But in God's infinte mind, every choice human make is for his own good because God foreknew/preordained/predestined (<-- sorry about this, I still can't figure their differences) his fate/destiny. Is this correct?
--- End quote ---
Hello,
Now that is an excellent question, it definitely conveys a thinking mind. This Cause/Effect relationship, Choices
and the consequences, the whole Free Will type issue can get us into some deep thinking. I'm not going to
search into our Ray archives at this time, I'll leave that for someone else. However, I'll give some input based
on what I've read from Ray's articles.
We make choices, all of those choices have consequences, whether initially with good results or bad results.
Every choice will ultimately somewhere down the line result in our good. It could be in that we learn a lesson
from this choice. We suffer from making bad choices, but eventually we learn something for our own good.
The benefit we receive from whatever choice we make, may not be realized in this Age(Our Lifetime).
We all experience many Evil things in Life, sometimes as a result of our choices or due to someone Else's.
God will take the Evil things we experience and it will be for our good, whether a chastening, discipline or
a refinement. It's all a process in being created in God's image, Spiritually speaking, by making choices and
suffering the consequences, experiencing the contrasts presented by Good and Evil, Joy and sorrow, pain
and pleasure, Hot and Cold. An example might be: We have a relative that says things that incur our anger,but
eventually we might learn that our choice to respond by flying off the handle leads to undesirable consequences
we eventually learn to either keep quiet, letting it go, in this way we experience better results and maybe
develop the quality of humility.
That's all for now, I'm sure others will provide some Scriptures and quotes from
Ray's Free Will Articles to assist you much more fully.
Kind Regards, Samson.
--- End quote ---
A thinking response indeed. And the underlined part, in my opinion, is full of reasoning and faith. "Benefit" is wisdom. Modern microwave "thinking" demands entitlement NOW. FAITH rests on assurance that the benefit may not yet come for some time, but it WILL come. To me, that is down to the core digging for the wisdom and understanding and being fed with the meat of faith from God that God indeed prevails, in the end. Walking the walk. Not simply chalking it up with just meaningless words without the faith.
A star and mark of excellence in my book Samson. FWIW.
Gary
Samson:
--- Quote from: Horseman on April 23, 2009, 09:23:36 AM ---
--- Quote from: Samson on April 22, 2009, 10:58:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: mhykx on April 22, 2009, 10:22:58 PM ---If what we are to choose is the only choice (whether the result will be bad or good) then technically there isn't any wrong choice. When the outcome is bad, carnal mind tend to judge that what is chosen is wrong. But in God's infinte mind, every choice human make is for his own good because God foreknew/preordained/predestined (<-- sorry about this, I still can't figure their differences) his fate/destiny. Is this correct?
--- End quote ---
Hello,
Now that is an excellent question, it definitely conveys a thinking mind. This Cause/Effect relationship, Choices
and the consequences, the whole Free Will type issue can get us into some deep thinking. I'm not going to
search into our Ray archives at this time, I'll leave that for someone else. However, I'll give some input based
on what I've read from Ray's articles.
We make choices, all of those choices have consequences, whether initially with good results or bad results.
Every choice will ultimately somewhere down the line result in our good. It could be in that we learn a lesson
from this choice. We suffer from making bad choices, but eventually we learn something for our own good.
The benefit we receive from whatever choice we make, may not be realized in this Age(Our Lifetime).
We all experience many Evil things in Life, sometimes as a result of our choices or due to someone Else's.
God will take the Evil things we experience and it will be for our good, whether a chastening, discipline or
a refinement. It's all a process in being created in God's image, Spiritually speaking, by making choices and
suffering the consequences, experiencing the contrasts presented by Good and Evil, Joy and sorrow, pain
and pleasure, Hot and Cold. An example might be: We have a relative that says things that incur our anger,but
eventually we might learn that our choice to respond by flying off the handle leads to undesirable consequences
we eventually learn to either keep quiet, letting it go, in this way we experience better results and maybe
develop the quality of humility.
That's all for now, I'm sure others will provide some Scriptures and quotes from
Ray's Free Will Articles to assist you much more fully.
Kind Regards, Samson.
--- End quote ---
A thinking response indeed. And the underlined part, in my opinion, is full of reasoning and faith. "Benefit" is wisdom. Modern microwave "thinking" demands entitlement NOW. FAITH rests on assurance that the benefit may not yet come for some time, but it WILL come. To me, that is down to the core digging for the wisdom and understanding and being fed with the meat of faith from God that God indeed prevails, in the end. Walking the walk. Not simply chalking it up with just meaningless words without the faith.
A star and mark of excellence in my book Samson. FWIW.
Gary
--- End quote ---
Thanks Gary,
Actually, I thought that I might get toasted alittle for my response, mainly because when
first seeing this Thread last night, I was tired and even though I Love Ray's Free Will Articles,
they are my favorites of his, admittedly I was too tired and lazy to search, so instead, I just
winged it, figuring some of the other Forum members would elaborate on pertinent Scriptures
and details from Ray's Free Will Articles. Whenever I'm feeling powerless, hopeless and that
sorta depressed feeling of " I wish my suffering and dealing with this life would end ", I revert
to reviewing and listening to Ray's Free Will Articles.
Kind Regards, Samson.
mhykx:
Hi guys!
The reason I was tempted to start another thread closely related to the one that was closed recently is that I don't feel that the question was answered. I read most of the email-replies (from Ray) you have posted but I don't see the answer yet. Forgive me if I am slow to comprehend.
What I understood about having no free will is that God is the One that will and do for us (as in all mankind) for our benefit. And I thought it is wonderful and liberating for I will no longer depend on my own strength. But then why is it said that EVERYONE RESISTED GOD'S WILL? HOW DOES ONE RESIST THE FATHER'S WILL?
Thanks again everyone!
-Mike
EKnight:
Romans 9:
18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"
20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"
21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
The bold in the above verse appears to be a rhetorical question. And the answer is, don't questions God's ways. We don't know the mind of God but we have faith and hope and trust in God's plan. If we knew every reason and every purpose under the sun, then there would be no need for faith.
I think that when Ray said "everyone" has resisted God's will, he may have been referring to sinning in the sense that we disobey God. Ray goes on to clarify by stating no one has resisted God's purpose (or plan).
Eileen
Ninny:
Hi Mike,
It's kind of strange, but somehow I understand the "free will" thing. I don't know how I understand it at all! I understood or at least believed it right off the bat 3 years ago when I first read it! Maybe God has just cushioned my simple mind against thinking too deeply about it! I can't explain it too well to other people! I started a reply yesterday to the other thread, but deleted it because it just didn't sound like the answer to anyone's question!
I can say that if you observe your children it's kind of like how God deals with us, we know that if a baby pulls up to something, for the first few times he's going to fall! We didn't make him fall even though we let him pull up and we KNEW he would fall! He has to decide on his own to pull up and he has to do it in order to grow stronger and learn how to walk. Whether it's something good or bad we have to experience some things to live and grow. I can think of hundreds of examples taken from the way we deal with our children that show how God deals with ME! I know that's just too simple, I'm sorry...This is just the way I see it...
Kathy ;)
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