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Author Topic: spirit  (Read 5799 times)

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kenny

  • Guest
spirit
« on: April 28, 2009, 02:31:03 AM »

 

Hey guys i am really sorry i posted out of my notes please forgive me.


this is my queastion
I was looking at a reply to a topic in the General and i stared looking at the word spirit and i need a little direction here, Does God Have a Body or is he just spirit.


« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 09:29:52 AM by kenny »
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: spirit
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2009, 03:58:25 AM »

And Where is that body Kenny, where is your Scripture that say GOD Has A body. One needs to be careful when making statements not supported by any Scripture about Things that Are Spiritual.

Deu 17:6 
At the mouth of two witnesses or three witnesses shall he that is worthy of death be put to death. At the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Witness #1
Joh 4:24 (KJV)
God is spirit, and those who are worshiping Him must be worshiping in spirit and truth."

Witness #2
Heb 12: 9-10 (KJV)
9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10  For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Joh 1:18 (KJV)
No one has seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

1Jn 4:12 (KJV)
No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and His love is perfected in us.

george :).


« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 04:03:46 AM by aqr »
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: spirit
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2009, 08:08:51 AM »

In the topic Ecc 9:5 I was reading the reply's and i kept hearing the word "spirit" and then Daywalker quoted:  John 4:24 God is Spirit, and so far that is the only scripture i can locate that says God is spirit, i punched spirit in to the search engine on the BT and so far i have not found anything else. Everthing that i have found say's Gods Spirit or the Spirit of God and i am asking for a little help here so forgive me but i am not trying to teach, i have been listening to a whole lot of Ray's teachings and i preety much aggree with everything i have heard from him, but the word spirit and the way it is speaking is telling me that God does have a body

wittnesses
 Gen 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (it says his spirit not God)

The word say's that we were made in his image and he did give us a body and a spirit and then a garden with everything in it to become as him!

Jesus was given a body and now sets at the Right hand of God, not spirit.

Rom 8:34  Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.


Kenny,

Those scriptures (or any other for that matter) do not testify of the Father having a body. Being made into His image has nothing to do with physical, outward manifestations.


Marques

P.S. And yes, what you are doing is trying to teach...you know Ray does not teach that unscriptural belief of God having a body...please remember to stay in line with the forum rules.
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Samson

  • Guest
Re: spirit
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2009, 10:23:42 AM »

Kenny,

          Just to add one small point to the discussion regarding John. 4:24. " God is Spirit ".
          Some translations take the liberty of rendering that verse: " God is a Spirit ", the word
          " a " is a translators choice, but should only be inserted to make sense of the verse,
          otherwise using the word  "a" is unnecessary. John. 4:24 doesn't need an "a" to make
          sense in translating this verse from the Greek. Ray mentions this in one of his articles
          when discussing Who and What God is. It might be explained in his article: Is God a
          Trinity or an extended Family.

          I think that some translators add that word "a" to convey the idea that God has a Body,
          but of course that is false. The translation I used to use had an "a", the New World Translation,
          so when I discovered that an "a" should only be inserted to make sense of the verse, it helped
          me to appreciate that God doesn't have a Body.

                                     Kind Regards, Samson.
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meee

  • Guest
Re: spirit
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2009, 11:06:11 AM »



The word say's that we were made in his image and he did give us a body and a spirit and then a garden with everything in it to become as him!
Jesus was given a body and now sets at the Right hand of God, not spirit.Rom 8:34  
          Kenny,
            From our birth to this day we are "being" made into God's image. He is spirit and soooo it is all spiritual ways that we are being conformed or made into God's image. We won't completely be conformed though in our life time.
           Jesus was given a flesh body for our benefit so we would have an example to follow as to walking in the ways of God. Besides, Jesus was here on earth, how else would we humans see him as we are not yet spiritual, but one day we will be, in a glorified body. Jesus doesn't have a flesh body anymore,He is spirit,and his body is a glorified body.
            God never had a body! God is invisible.
           Kenny really ponder the verses George posted.
           with hugs,meee
              hugs,meee
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: spirit
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2009, 12:08:38 PM »


Hi Kenny,

I found a couple of things that might be helpful with your question.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.msg27960.html#msg27960 ---

So let’s think about this a little bit, who is the Father?  In Him we live and breath and have our being.  Liken the ocean to the Spirit of God, and liken us to the fish.  The fish are 95% water, the ocean is in the fish, and the fish are in the ocean, get it.
A bird has very porous bones, because they have to be very light.  It flies in the heavens, it breaths fast, because it needs strength and oxygen.  So the air (which is like the Spirit of God, which is what he calls it in the NT, Greek word for spirit is pheuma), the expanse is even called heaven, where the bird flies, and liken the air to the Spirit of God.  The bird has air in him and is flying through the air.

Now this is what the scripture say, we are in God and God is in us.  So, get it out of your head that God is a man, sitting on a stone throne, like Abraham Lincoln in Washington D.C., an old man with gray hair.  God is right here, it (Bible) says so, we have to just listen to the words.

God is Spirit, it also says God is invisible, you can’t see Him, not literally.  We can see Him in Spirit, as in our heart, in our mind, our soul, our spirit, in our intermost being.
 
The thing that makes us different from plants and other animals, is we can see God.  I’m trying to help you right now, to see God.  So when you leave here, you will see God in a way you didn’t, when you walked in here.  If God opens it up to you, I can only tell you, but God must open it up for you to grasp it.
 
God is here, not here because we are here, but He was here before we got here and He’ll still be after we leave.  Because this desk is here and this desk has it cohesion in Jesus Christ.  It is through Jesus Christ that this desk holds together or it would fall apart.  It takes energy and power, what is the source of the power, Jesus Christ, which comes from the Father and it’s passed off out of Him.  One Father, one God, all and everything is out of Him.  GOD IS ALMIGHTY!

What did Jesus say when He left His apostles and vanished out of their sight.
 
He said, “all power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth,” (Matt. 28:18).
 
That’s why He has come, He’s not the Father, but He’s God and He possesses all power in heaven and earth.  By being the One, who possesses all power in heaven and earth, He is God.  He didn’t have all power in heaven and earth from all eternity, it was given to Him.  One God, everything is out of that God.  We’re in Him and He’s in us, because He’s Spirit.  Not a Spirit, in some geographical location.  The reason God knows everything, is in all places at all times, is because that’s where He is.  He’s Spirit and He refers to Himself as Spirit.  My Spirit is here, there and everywhere.

David was inspired to write, where can I go to get away from you God, up to heaven, down to sheol, (Psalms 139:7-12).
There’s no place I can go, where you are not.  Why?  God is Spirit, God is not a man, get that out of your head.  He (God) tells us that, God is not a man... Jesus Christ is a man.

Where is God?  EVERYWHERE!
If your in a life raft, out in the middle of the ocean, you don’t have to cry out to God, to help you.  God can see you, in the big ocean.  He’s there, whether He’ll help, that’s a different story.  But He is there.

I clipped this saying years ago and pasted it in the front of my Bible,

          'Thy ocean, O Lord, is so great and my boat is so small.'

It’s the truth, we are pretty small in the universe.  Everything is out of God.
 
So there was a time, before everything was out of God, when there was just God.  That is a hard concept... take away people, take away the earth, the stars, the planets, the solar system, the galaxies, and the whole universe, take it all away and what do you have?  If you take away the creation, what is left?  Would it be dark or light?  You have to pay attention to the words.  Take away the creation of the universe and you’re not left with blackness of outer space.  I’m just going to read it to you.

Isa 45:5  I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird thee, though thou hast not known me;
v. 6  that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else.
v. 7  I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

So if we do away with the created universe, what do you have? You have God and light.  He created the darkness.  But I had someone say to me, cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light, it’s not something, it’s the absence of something.  I say, I know that sounds very scientific, but God’s thoughts are not your thoughts, neither His ways our ways, and God created darkness.  Except that there be, this envelope of darkness that shrouds us from God, it would be light all the time, everywhere.  There is no darkness with God.  Only in His creation did He create darkness.
 
So don’t think before God created the universe, He was drifting around in outer space, with nothing to sit on, nowhere to go and nothing to do.  It doesn’t even say that there was nothing.  It doesn’t say in the beginning there was nothing and God made something.  It says in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, but God doesn’t live in things that are created.  He doesn’t need that for habitation, because He existed before He created those things.  Now He resides in heaven, the heavens being (among other things) us.  Our spirituality is of heaven and He dwells in man.  Don’t you know your body is a holy temple of God.  There are multiple heavens.


http://bible-truths.com/email14.htm -----------------------

Dozens of times (maybe hundreds) God speaks to us AS IF He were a man. But God is NOT A MAN.

Some examples:

"And the Lord REPENTED [changed His mind] of the evil which He thought to do unto His people" (Ex. 32:14).

Vs.

"And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for He is not a man that he should repent [change His mind]" (I. Sam. 15:29).

Is this a flat out Biblical contradiction? NO. On statement is from man's point of view, and the other is from God's point of view. One is the RELATIVE, while the other is the ABSOLUTE.

"...choose you this day whom ye will serve" (Josh. 24:15).

Vs.

"Ye have NOT chosen me, but I have chosen you..." (John 15:16).

The relative point of view from man's position seems to put the ability to choose on man's shoulders, while the ABSOLUTE truth from God's position is that 'no one CAN come to Me...." (John 6:44).

"...whosoever does not righteousness is NOT of God" (I jn 3:10).

Vs.
   
"ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18).

Unrighteousness is NOT of God's heart. Those who doe wickedness are of their father the devil, Jesus said. Yet, even THAT is OF GOD in the ultimate sense.

One more:

"Zachariah was JUST before God" (Luke 1:5). 

Vs. 

"NOT ONE is JUST" (Rom. 3:10).

Again, Zachariah was "just" FROM MAN'S point of view. When comparing him with all the other corrupt priests, Zachariah certainly appeared to be JUST. But from God's ABSOLUTE point of view, not even Zachariah was just.

And so there are hundreds of just such statements in Scripture that appear to make God out to be HUMAN, with HUMAN anatomy (eyes, ears, face, hair, arms, etc.) when in reality God IS SPIRIT and has ABSOLUTELY NO HUMAN ANATOMY.

When God asked:  "Where art thou Adam?" Are we to assumed that God Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHERE ADAM WAS HIDING??   And then, "WHO TOLD YOU that you were naked?" Does God REALLY NOT KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THESE SIMPLE QUESTIONS?

It was for ADAMS SAKE that God asked: "Where art thou" and "who told you that you are naked." From man's point of view God "repented" or "changed His mind." But God has not revealed to the whole world that ALL IS OF HIM, and he NEVER EVER CHANGES ANYTHING! Now do you see and understand. Good.

There are thousands of highly educated theologians and teachers that do not grasp these simplest of Bible Truths.

God be with you,

Ray

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kenny

  • Guest
Re: spirit
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2009, 12:36:04 PM »


Hi Kenny,

I found a couple of things that might be helpful with your question.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.msg27960.html#msg27960 ---

So let’s think about this a little bit, who is the Father?  In Him we live and breath and have our being.  Liken the ocean to the Spirit of God, and liken us to the fish.  The fish are 95% water, the ocean is in the fish, and the fish are in the ocean, get it.
A bird has very porous bones, because they have to be very light.  It flies in the heavens, it breaths fast, because it needs strength and oxygen.  So the air (which is like the Spirit of God, which is what he calls it in the NT, Greek word for spirit is pheuma), the expanse is even called heaven, where the bird flies, and liken the air to the Spirit of God.  The bird has air in him and is flying through the air.

Now this is what the scripture say, we are in God and God is in us.  So, get it out of your head that God is a man, sitting on a stone throne, like Abraham Lincoln in Washington D.C., an old man with gray hair.  God is right here, it (Bible) says so, we have to just listen to the words.

God is Spirit, it also says God is invisible, you can’t see Him, not literally.  We can see Him in Spirit, as in our heart, in our mind, our soul, our spirit, in our intermost being.
 
The thing that makes us different from plants and other animals, is we can see God.  I’m trying to help you right now, to see God.  So when you leave here, you will see God in a way you didn’t, when you walked in here.  If God opens it up to you, I can only tell you, but God must open it up for you to grasp it.
 
God is here, not here because we are here, but He was here before we got here and He’ll still be after we leave.  Because this desk is here and this desk has it cohesion in Jesus Christ.  It is through Jesus Christ that this desk holds together or it would fall apart.  It takes energy and power, what is the source of the power, Jesus Christ, which comes from the Father and it’s passed off out of Him.  One Father, one God, all and everything is out of Him.  GOD IS ALMIGHTY!

What did Jesus say when He left His apostles and vanished out of their sight.
 
He said, “all power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth,” (Matt. 28:18).
 
That’s why He has come, He’s not the Father, but He’s God and He possesses all power in heaven and earth.  By being the One, who possesses all power in heaven and earth, He is God.  He didn’t have all power in heaven and earth from all eternity, it was given to Him.  One God, everything is out of that God.  We’re in Him and He’s in us, because He’s Spirit.  Not a Spirit, in some geographical location.  The reason God knows everything, is in all places at all times, is because that’s where He is.  He’s Spirit and He refers to Himself as Spirit.  My Spirit is here, there and everywhere.

David was inspired to write, where can I go to get away from you God, up to heaven, down to sheol, (Psalms 139:7-12).
There’s no place I can go, where you are not.  Why?  God is Spirit, God is not a man, get that out of your head.  He (God) tells us that, God is not a man... Jesus Christ is a man.

Where is God?  EVERYWHERE!
If your in a life raft, out in the middle of the ocean, you don’t have to cry out to God, to help you.  God can see you, in the big ocean.  He’s there, whether He’ll help, that’s a different story.  But He is there.

I clipped this saying years ago and pasted it in the front of my Bible,

          'Thy ocean, O Lord, is so great and my boat is so small.'

It’s the truth, we are pretty small in the universe.  Everything is out of God.
 
So there was a time, before everything was out of God, when there was just God.  That is a hard concept... take away people, take away the earth, the stars, the planets, the solar system, the galaxies, and the whole universe, take it all away and what do you have?  If you take away the creation, what is left?  Would it be dark or light?  You have to pay attention to the words.  Take away the creation of the universe and you’re not left with blackness of outer space.  I’m just going to read it to you.

Isa 45:5  I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird thee, though thou hast not known me;
v. 6  that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else.
v. 7  I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

So if we do away with the created universe, what do you have? You have God and light.  He created the darkness.  But I had someone say to me, cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light, it’s not something, it’s the absence of something.  I say, I know that sounds very scientific, but God’s thoughts are not your thoughts, neither His ways our ways, and God created darkness.  Except that there be, this envelope of darkness that shrouds us from God, it would be light all the time, everywhere.  There is no darkness with God.  Only in His creation did He create darkness.
 
So don’t think before God created the universe, He was drifting around in outer space, with nothing to sit on, nowhere to go and nothing to do.  It doesn’t even say that there was nothing.  It doesn’t say in the beginning there was nothing and God made something.  It says in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, but God doesn’t live in things that are created.  He doesn’t need that for habitation, because He existed before He created those things.  Now He resides in heaven, the heavens being (among other things) us.  Our spirituality is of heaven and He dwells in man.  Don’t you know your body is a holy temple of God.  There are multiple heavens.


http://bible-truths.com/email14.htm -----------------------

Dozens of times (maybe hundreds) God speaks to us AS IF He were a man. But God is NOT A MAN.

Some examples:

"And the Lord REPENTED [changed His mind] of the evil which He thought to do unto His people" (Ex. 32:14).

Vs.

"And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for He is not a man that he should repent [change His mind]" (I. Sam. 15:29).

Is this a flat out Biblical contradiction? NO. On statement is from man's point of view, and the other is from God's point of view. One is the RELATIVE, while the other is the ABSOLUTE.

"...choose you this day whom ye will serve" (Josh. 24:15).

Vs.

"Ye have NOT chosen me, but I have chosen you..." (John 15:16).

The relative point of view from man's position seems to put the ability to choose on man's shoulders, while the ABSOLUTE truth from God's position is that 'no one CAN come to Me...." (John 6:44).

"...whosoever does not righteousness is NOT of God" (I jn 3:10).

Vs.
   
"ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18).

Unrighteousness is NOT of God's heart. Those who doe wickedness are of their father the devil, Jesus said. Yet, even THAT is OF GOD in the ultimate sense.

One more:

"Zachariah was JUST before God" (Luke 1:5). 

Vs. 

"NOT ONE is JUST" (Rom. 3:10).

Again, Zachariah was "just" FROM MAN'S point of view. When comparing him with all the other corrupt priests, Zachariah certainly appeared to be JUST. But from God's ABSOLUTE point of view, not even Zachariah was just.

And so there are hundreds of just such statements in Scripture that appear to make God out to be HUMAN, with HUMAN anatomy (eyes, ears, face, hair, arms, etc.) when in reality God IS SPIRIT and has ABSOLUTELY NO HUMAN ANATOMY.

When God asked:  "Where art thou Adam?" Are we to assumed that God Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHERE ADAM WAS HIDING??   And then, "WHO TOLD YOU that you were naked?" Does God REALLY NOT KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THESE SIMPLE QUESTIONS?

It was for ADAMS SAKE that God asked: "Where art thou" and "who told you that you are naked." From man's point of view God "repented" or "changed His mind." But God has not revealed to the whole world that ALL IS OF HIM, and he NEVER EVER CHANGES ANYTHING! Now do you see and understand. Good.

There are thousands of highly educated theologians and teachers that do not grasp these simplest of Bible Truths.

God be with you,

Ray


Thanks Kat
That is exactly what i am looking for, every time i do a search on the BT there is so much here that when you do a word search it takes days and even years in some cases to go through, that i knew if i put in a topic i would be led where i need to go.

thanks
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: spirit
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2009, 11:37:57 PM »

 
Hey guys i am really sorry i posted out of my notes please forgive me.

this is my queastion
I was looking at a reply to a topic in the General and i stared looking at the word spirit and i need a little direction here, Does God Have a Body or is he just spirit.


Actually The Scriptures Say That All Come Out Of GOD. So GOD Is more than just anything. Based on the Scriptures below, it would be quite the stretch to describe any Physical Body for GOD. Remember the Spirit Is Likened to The Wind And many other such Metaphors.

Act 17: 24-25 (MKJV)
24  The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of Heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands,
25  nor is served with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives life and breath and all things to all.

Act 17:28 (MKJV)
For in Him we live and move and have our being, as also certain of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring.

1Co 8: 5-6 (MKJV)
5  For though there are those who are called gods, whether in Heaven or in earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6  but there is to us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him.

george. :)

 
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