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Sermon on the Mount

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EKnight:
I am reading Matthew's account of the Sermon on the mount.

It starts out in Chapter five with this first verse:

1 Now, perceiving the throngs, He ascended into the mountain. And, at His being seated, His disciples came to Him.

Ray said:

The following verses taken from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount make it abundantly clear that Jesus was not addressing the Pharisees, or Saducees, or the Priests,  or Scribes, or even the multitudes which did not follow Jesus up the mountain, but waited for His return. Rather, Jesus addressed His Own disciples (of whom there were initially, many) who followed Him up the mountain. These only He instructed regarding a much higher standard of conduct and judgment:

If Ray is correct, then why does it say this at the end of Chapter 7:

28 And it came, when Jesus finishes these sayings, that the throngs were astonished at His teaching,
29 for He was teaching them as One having authority, and not as their scribes.

How could they (the throngs) be astonished at his teachings if it is as Rays says: "Rather, Jesus addressed His Own disciples (of whom there were initially, many) who followed Him up the mountain."  ??? ???

Eileen

Phil3:10:
Eileen,
I have read Matthew 5 through 7 and my take is that Jesus first taught his disciples and due to the time frame the multitude drew near to here his teachings. In the KJV and in the CLNT throng and multitude mean a crowd of people. I would think CHRIST'S teachings were primarily for the disciples but also fell on the ears of the multitude (throng) which followed HIM when HE came down from the mountain in Chapter 8.
This is just my take but I do feel that Ray has it right that the teachings were first for the disciples in order that they might teach in the absence of CHRIST. The multitude (throng) was always with CHRIST and the only way for HIM to get away was to flee them.
In HIM,
Phil3:10

EKnight:
But look at the italicized word in this verse:

28 And it came, when Jesus finishes these sayings, that the throngs were astonished at His teaching,
29 for He was teaching them as One having authority, and not as their scribes.

The "them" in this verse is referring back to the "throngs" so He (Christ) was teaching "them" (the throngs).

I am only bringing this up because Ray was pretty emphatic about Christ teaching his disciples so I guess it's important to understand.

Eileen

Marlene:
Eileen here is a verse that might help you.
Mark 1: 27 And they were all amazed insomuch that they questioned among themselves , saying, What thing is this: what new doctine is this:for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

I believe this is a spiritual match for the verse you gave Eileen. Looks to me like they questioned things but did not understand.

In His Love,
Marlene

mharrell08:

--- Quote from: EKnight on May 03, 2009, 05:32:00 PM ---I am reading Matthew's account of the Sermon on the mount.

It starts out in Chapter five with this first verse:

1 Now, perceiving the throngs, He ascended into the mountain. And, at His being seated, His disciples came to Him.

Ray said:

The following verses taken from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount make it abundantly clear that Jesus was not addressing the Pharisees, or Saducees, or the Priests,  or Scribes, or even the multitudes which did not follow Jesus up the mountain, but waited for His return. Rather, Jesus addressed His Own disciples (of whom there were initially, many) who followed Him up the mountain. These only He instructed regarding a much higher standard of conduct and judgment:

If Ray is correct, then why does it say this at the end of Chapter 7:

28 And it came, when Jesus finishes these sayings, that the throngs were astonished at His teaching,
29 for He was teaching them as One having authority, and not as their scribes.

How could they (the throngs) be astonished at his teachings if it is as Rays says: "Rather, Jesus addressed His Own disciples (of whom there were initially, many) who followed Him up the mountain."  ??? ???

Eileen
--- End quote ---

Eileen, how many disciples do you believed Christ's addressed? Remember, Christ had 12 apostles but a good number of disciples.

Luke 6:13  And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

Are seventy (70) or more people considered a 'throng' or multitude?

Luke 10:1-3  After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.

Luke 10:17  And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

Some apostles/disciples did not know of other disciples:

Luke 9:49-50  And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us

Mark 9:38-39  And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

The scriptures speak of 'many disciples':

Mark 2:15  And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

John 6:65-67  And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back ['from that time'; but before 'that time' many disciples followed him], and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

And so on and so on...one thing to maybe keep in mind is 'why' Christ taught His disciples these spiritual truths on the mount...that's what Ray covers in great detail and it may help you to see the broader picture than just how many people may have heard it.

Also remember, who the mysteries of the kingdom were given to...the disciples, not the multitude (the many):

Matt 13:10-11  ...the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Luke 8:9-10  ...his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables


Hope this helps,

Marques

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