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Author Topic: No one is greater then John the baptist!  (Read 13269 times)

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love_magnified

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2006, 05:12:04 PM »

Quote from: Daniel
Quote from: chrissiela
Quote from: love_magnified
Yes, but the kingdom is not a matter of waiting to die and go to heaven. Those scriptures testify to that. The reason that the least in the kingdom are greater than John the Baptist, is because the least of these have the spirit of Christ within them.


Oh, sorry. I don't think Daniel was saying that. If so, I missed it. Daniel's repeatedly said that we don't die (physically) for these things to be true.

So what you said threw me off.  :oops:

Chrissie


No I wasn't, sorry if I caused confusion. I had asked a question only to show "the point" by way of comparison found in Paul. I'm not sure how Love_magnified was seeing what I was sharing, I didn't catch that one. I actually agree with what Love_Maginified said. The not dying to "go to" heaven. I think your both right on.


Daniel


Actually I wasn't disagreeing. I should have made that more clear. I was responding to this from the very first post.

"Name the great people you admirer the mos in life and they are less then the least in heaven. Also, who really want to be the least in the kingdom of heaven. I don't know about you, but I want to be first. Being first is what Paul race was all about."

The reason I quoted both was not to disagree with Daniel, but to to emphasize the point if rvhill is believing that we are waiting to get to heaven to enter the kingdom and be great in Christ.
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mercie

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2006, 05:23:36 PM »

The reason I quoted both was not to disagree with Daniel, but to to emphasize the point if rvhill is believing that we are waiting to get to heaven to enter the kingdom and be great in Christ.

Nicely explained L-M.

For the Kingdom is now.

As Chrissie mentioned, sitting in the heavenlies.
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Daniel

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2006, 05:30:03 PM »

Quote from: love_magnified
Quote from: Daniel
Quote from: chrissiela
Quote from: love_magnified
Yes, but the kingdom is not a matter of waiting to die and go to heaven. Those scriptures testify to that. The reason that the least in the kingdom are greater than John the Baptist, is because the least of these have the spirit of Christ within them.


Oh, sorry. I don't think Daniel was saying that. If so, I missed it. Daniel's repeatedly said that we don't die (physically) for these things to be true.

So what you said threw me off.  :oops:

Chrissie


No I wasn't, sorry if I caused confusion. I had asked a question only to show "the point" by way of comparison found in Paul. I'm not sure how Love_magnified was seeing what I was sharing, I didn't catch that one. I actually agree with what Love_Maginified said. The not dying to "go to" heaven. I think your both right on.


Daniel


Actually I wasn't disagreeing. I should have made that more clear. I was responding to this from the very first post.

"Name the great people you admirer the mos in life and they are less then the least in heaven. Also, who really want to be the least in the kingdom of heaven. I don't know about you, but I want to be first. Being first is what Paul race was all about."

The reason I quoted both was not to disagree with Daniel, but to to emphasize the point if rvhill is believing that we are waiting to get to heaven to enter the kingdom and be great in Christ.


Agreed we do desire to run the race set before us knowing only ONE gets the prize, Christ in us as the strong man running that race. I see it being in Him. How we veiw even this is spoken of by Christ.

Mathew 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.[/u]

Paul was a bondservant of Christ, He was "CALLED" the LEAST but He was in fact GREATER then John

Mark 9:35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man DESIRE to BE FIRST, the same shall be LAST of all, and servant of all.[/u]


Mathew 20:16 So THE LAST shall BE FIRST, and the first LAST: for many be called, but few chosen.[/u]

Whats CALLED one THING is not nessesarily what it truly IS. He was called a heretic but was true, least but the greatest of them being a bondservant of Christ. He becoming of no "reputation" and "all things" to all men had nothing it it "for himself". He did not to appear to be anything "of himself".  The weighter glory that comes from God and not men was his desire. He was a true servant of the Lord. No man would come forth not "announcing HIMSELF" but Paul lost that rep and became like others in order to HELP THEM (wherever they were).

I love that about Paul, being last is truly being "first"

Daniel
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love_magnified

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2006, 05:43:26 PM »

Amen to all of the above. It is worth noting that Paul is saying to run as though to be first not to be first. He is simply speaking about desire, being earnest in pursuit of the prize. The kingdom is now, yes, but the kingdom we enter into is the same kingdom without "wicked servants" and it is the crown of righteousness we run to recieve. His metaphor is about being persistent and eager, knowing that God will have no pleasure in them who fall away. Good words.
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rvhill

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2006, 06:00:28 PM »

Quote from: love_magnified
Amen to all of the above. It is worth noting that Paul is saying to run as though to be first not to be first. He is simply speaking about desire, being earnest in pursuit of the prize. The kingdom is now, yes, but the kingdom we enter into is the same kingdom without "wicked servants" and it is the crown of righteousness we run to recieve. His metaphor is about being persistent and eager, knowing that God will have no pleasure in them who fall away. Good words.


I agree with this

 I did not really use the part about Paul's race well, simply, because Paul's race is about faith as much as anything else. I do agree with Paul being greater then John the Baptist, but I believe when Jesus is talking of the kingdom of heaven, Jesus is talking about the resurrect, the next life. I believe that the least in the kingdom of heaven will be greater then Paul. Neither John or Paul were perfect, but those in the kingdom will be.  I just do not see the Kingdom as being now in us.
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SOTW

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2006, 06:48:43 PM »

Quote
Matthew 11:11 I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

This a powerful thing to think about. For many reason it mean all the great men of history or less then the least in heaven. Name the great people you admirer the mos in life and they are less then the least in heaven. Also, who really want to be the least in the kingdom of heaven. I don't know about you, but I want to be first. Being first is what Paul race was all about.


Good topic, there are things that we have to fix in our thinking. We should not desire to be first, that is what servanthood is all about. When Paul spoke about the race, this was another of the first things the Lord told me about the race and being a ruler with Christ is for the sake of others, servanthood. It is to be last, our REWARD is others. The FIRST will be last, the LAST will be first.
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ciy

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2006, 06:49:43 PM »

Just curious.  How is Paul greater than John the Baptist?  

CIY
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Daniel

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2006, 06:50:53 PM »

I agree with Love_magnified here as well Rvhill.  Not sure I agree with the Kingdom thought on not being here, I see it a bit differently as I believe is comes to us but is not observable by the natural eye.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be "born again", he cannot see the kingdom of God.[/u]

John 1:13 Which "were born", not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor "of the will of man", but of God.[/u]

We know flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, the change is walking not after the flesh but the spirit

1Peter 1:23 Being born again, NOT OF "corruptible seed", BUT OF "incorruptible", by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


 Saying the Kingdom is not here would then be saying we haven't the righteousness, peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God "is not meat and drink"; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in "the Holy Ghost".

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.[/u]

Paul says,

Phil 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Job could NOT SAY what God declared OF HIM

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.[/u]

Yet

Phil 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[/u]

1Cr 4:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

If perfection comes not while we are here then what of being made complete in Him and perfected in love? Is that not what its all about?

1Jon 2:2 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.[/u]

1John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, "so are we" in this world.


God has not given us a spirit of fear

1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.[/u]

To know God is eternal life and we are to have this "in us" and this is evidenced by love. And nothing can separate you from his love life or death for both are ours. In fact the "passing over" from death to life is evidenced of the same (as is darkness into the light).

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:[/u]

Ephes 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, "unto" the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:[/u]

James 3:2  For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

If we have not been the power to actually "become" the Sons of God why bother? Wouldn't that just be like the rest of men who have a "form of Godliness but deny the "power"? The power "to become" (like Him) in this world, the "manifestation" of The Sons of God. Isnt that our hope our earnest expectation? To be a partaker of His divine nature as I see it.

God hath given us power, if he hasnt let us eat and drink for tommorrow we do die you would think?

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:[/u]



Daniel
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Daniel

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2006, 06:58:06 PM »

Quote from: ciy
Just curious.  How is Paul greater than John the Baptist?  

CIY


I see it as what the law could not do being weak because of the flesh. Grace could do mightily. The effectual working of the power of God in them which came not by the law but through faith they had access into it.

Paul spoke of others being made a partaker of this grace in Him. His gospel which came not by word but with power that worked in them who believed.

Thats how I see it in "comparing ministries"

Daniel
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mercie

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2006, 07:06:49 PM »

Quote from: SOTW
Quote
Matthew 11:11 I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

This a powerful thing to think about. For many reason it mean all the great men of history or less then the least in heaven. Name the great people you admirer the mos in life and they are less then the least in heaven. Also, who really want to be the least in the kingdom of heaven. I don't know about you, but I want to be first. Being first is what Paul race was all about.


Good topic, there are things that we have to fix in our thinking. We should not desire to be first, that is what servanthood is all about. When Paul spoke about the race, this was another of the first things the Lord told me about the race and being a ruler with Christ is for the sake of others, servanthood. It is to be last, our REWARD is others. The FIRST will be last, the LAST will be first.


SOTW

I see this a little different , the rewards are two things which = the prize of which we recieve.

Those of the LAW and Flesh their reward was thus :-to BE SEEN OF MEN

Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

For those who continue in the FAITH their PRIZE is Christ , its when we fall from Grace back to Law we lose that prize as it it makes Christ of Non effect.

Had paul fell from Grace then surely like the rest of us he would lose HIS PRIZE.


Press on under pressure , to continue in the FAITH.

Christ is the reward for those who believe.
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rocky

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2006, 07:21:59 PM »

Quote from: Daniel
I agree with Love_magnified here as well Rvhill.  Not sure I agree with the Kingdom thought on not being here, I see it a bit differently as I believe is comes to us but is not observable by the natural eye.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be "born again", he cannot see the kingdom of God.[/u]

John 1:13 Which "were born", not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor "of the will of man", but of God.[/u]

We know flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, the change is walking not after the flesh but the spirit

1Peter 1:23 Being born again, NOT OF "corruptible seed", BUT OF "incorruptible", by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


 Saying the Kingdom is not here would then be saying we haven't the righteousness, peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God "is not meat and drink"; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in "the Holy Ghost".

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.[/u]

Paul says,

Phil 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Job could NOT SAY what God declared OF HIM

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.[/u]

Yet

Phil 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[/u]

1Cr 4:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

If perfection comes not while we are here then what of being made complete in Him and perfected in love? Is that not what its all about?

1Jon 2:2 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.[/u]

1John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, "so are we" in this world.


God has not given us a spirit of fear

1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.[/u]

To know God is eternal life and we are to have this "in us" and this is evidenced by love. And nothing can separate you from his love life or death for both are ours. In fact the "passing over" from death to life is evidenced of the same (as is darkness into the light).

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:[/u]

Ephes 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, "unto" the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:[/u]

James 3:2  For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

If we have not been the power to actually "become" the Sons of God why bother? Wouldn't that just be like the rest of men who have a "form of Godliness but deny the "power"? The power "to become" (like Him) in this world, the "manifestation" of The Sons of God. Isnt that our hope our earnest expectation? To be a partaker of His divine nature as I see it.

God hath given us power, if he hasnt let us eat and drink for tommorrow we do die you would think?

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:[/u]



Daniel


.  


 1Cr 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.  


 1Cr 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.  


 1Cr 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.  


 1Cr 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.  
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rvhill

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2006, 07:29:17 PM »

Quote from: Daniel
I agree with Love_magnified here as well Rvhill.  Not sure I agree with the Kingdom thought on not being here, I see it a bit differently as I believe is comes to us but is not observable by the natural eye.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be "born again", he cannot see the kingdom of God.[/u]

John 1:13 Which "were born", not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor "of the will of man", but of God.[/u]

We know flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, the change is walking not after the flesh but the spirit

1Peter 1:23 Being born again, NOT OF "corruptible seed", BUT OF "incorruptible", by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


 Saying the Kingdom is not here would then be saying we haven't the righteousness, peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God "is not meat and drink"; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in "the Holy Ghost".

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.[/u]

Paul says,

Phil 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Job could NOT SAY what God declared OF HIM

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.[/u]

Yet

Phil 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[/u]

1Cr 4:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

If perfection comes not while we are here then what of being made complete in Him and perfected in love? Is that not what its all about?

1Jon 2:2 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.[/u]

1John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, "so are we" in this world.


God has not given us a spirit of fear

1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.[/u]

To know God is eternal life and we are to have this "in us" and this is evidenced by love. And nothing can separate you from his love life or death for both are ours. In fact the "passing over" from death to life is evidenced of the same (as is darkness into the light).

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:[/u]

Ephes 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, "unto" the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:[/u]

James 3:2  For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

If we have not been the power to actually "become" the Sons of God why bother? Wouldn't that just be like the rest of men who have a "form of Godliness but deny the "power"? The power "to become" (like Him) in this world, the "manifestation" of The Sons of God. Isnt that our hope our earnest expectation? To be a partaker of His divine nature as I see it.

God hath given us power, if he hasnt let us eat and drink for tommorrow we do die you would think?

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:[/u]



Daniel


Jesus is the embodiment of the Kingdom. We have the promise of the kingdom to come though Jesus' resurrection. When Jesus walked the kingdom was present, because Jesus was present. I just do not see the kingdom being fulfilled in us tell the second coming.
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rocky

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2006, 07:43:31 PM »

food for thot


"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL COME AGAIN, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." John 14:3

 
 Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;  


 Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.  


 Jhn 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
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love_magnified

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2006, 07:44:49 PM »

Quote
When Jesus walked the kingdom was present, because Jesus was present. I just do not see the kingdom being fulfilled in us tell the second coming.


Where is Jesus Christ?
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mercie

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2006, 07:47:32 PM »

Did he not send a Helper

Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;


Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.



Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you


Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation .

Is not Salvation now?
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love_magnified

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2006, 07:53:48 PM »

If we are in this world as Christ is because he is in us, that makes us his body, and his kingdom of Sons.
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mercie

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2006, 07:55:22 PM »

Quote from: love_magnified
If we are in this world as Christ is because he is in us, that makes us his body, and his kingdom of Sons.


AMEN!!
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Daniel

  • Guest
No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2006, 08:04:12 PM »

Quote from: mercie
Quote from: love_magnified
If we are in this world as Christ is because he is in us, that makes us his body, and his kingdom of Sons.


AMEN!!


I SECOND that AMEN!!!  :D

Daniel
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orion77

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2006, 08:16:45 PM »

Quote from: love_magnified
If we are in this world as Christ is because he is in us, that makes us his body, and his kingdom of Sons.



ABSOLUTELY, AMEN TO THAT!

This is one thing that intrigues me.  The whole christian community is awaiting the Second Coming.  When the baptism of the Holy Spirit is His second coming.  He is in us, we in Him and us in each other through the love that was declared by Jesus and witnessed unto us by the Spirit.  And this love is what we are becoming, which is God the Father Himself, then He shall be all in all.

God bless,

Gary
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love_magnified

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No one is greater then John the baptist!
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2006, 08:22:48 PM »

Amen. Christ is come in the flesh. OURS!!!! ;)

He represents us and we represent him right down to toppling the false doctrines of men and getting some folks mad at us. Of late I have realized through Mike's and Ray's teaching that Christ made himself a physical representation on earth in his ministry of his followers to come.

"These things and greater will ye do."
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