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[Kat]

Hi Astrapho,

IMO before you can debate a topic you really need to have your own convictions that you have proven to yourself from study, as this person that you are talking to seems to have done.  This way you can have the info you need to back up your argument.

I would suggest you listen to or read the conference where Ray brought out much info from his study on 'How we got the bible.'  Just getting bit and pieces brought up and posted will not give you the full picture.  Here are the links.

November 2007 Mobile Conference - How We Got The Bible
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Session 1 11_03_07.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Session 2 11_03_07.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Session 3 11_03_07.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Session 4 11_03_07.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Session 5 11_03_07.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Session 6 11_03_07.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Session 7 11_04_07.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Session 8 11_04_07.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Session 9 11_04_07.mp3

Transcript - How We got The Bible
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html

Another study that you may be interested in, since this guy has referred to James and Paul do not seem to agree, is the Bible study - Do James & Paul Contradict?
http://bible-truths.com/audio/07-01-07_Part1.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/07-01-07_Part2.mp3
Rays notes for this study: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4828.0.html

Transcript to 'Do James And Paul Contradict?'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9742.0.html

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[mharrell08]

Hello Astrapho,

Your associate from the internet, though claims to quote Jesus only, does not understand what Jesus said and taught. This seems to be turning into a never-ending point counter point between you two.

Ask your friend to read over or listen to Ray's bible study on 'Do James and Paul contradict' under transcripts or audio menu (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,8.0.html).

As for as 'is the Bible accurate or not', to what end? Your associate has his 'historians' that he relies on but not the historians who translate and keep the Holy Scriptures. You then leave the scriptures to argue over this historian or that. It gets nowhere but into a carnal debate about which 'man or woman' is accurate.

I don't believe if you showed your associate, in any and all ways from scripture, that Paul, James, and others were in agreement with Christ, that he would believe you. That's not what it's about to him...it's about the seed of doubt he has, no faith.

Faith is a gift from God [Eph 2:8, Jam 1:17], so until God gives it, your associate will be stuck in the same boat he's in now.


Marques

P.S.  Would you look at that? Paul and James in agreement...again. Faith is a gift from God [Eph 2:8, Jam 1:17]

[Marlene]

Astrapho, Right before coming into Ray's Website I was looking around at different Christian Beliefs among other things. By the time I had read up on all of theses things I was totally confused. Then I had a feeling of fear in me. There are many people teaching that Paul was a fake some of them are not of God at all. They all are a part of Babylon. Jack Van Impe for example is talking about 2012 begining of time . Where, is he getting this teaching from Nostradums. Well, he was like a fortune teller. That, is a dead give away that most of christianity is not of God at all.

Now, the night I found Ray's website. I read for three days. I believed. Only, because God made the decision to open my eyes and give me ears to understand. Ray's website is the only one that convicts my heart that God has given Ray understanding of Gods truth. It is going to take me sometime to learn all Ray has shown me. Day by day itis sinking in. But, since day one God has given me peace in my life like I have never known. I mean I cannot get enough of God.  I would say the best thing for you is to do what others have told you. What, good does it to to argue with others, when we are just learning ourselves. We need to be corrected by God and given better understanding. What, makes the difference if they don't believe as you. You have been given a prescious gift from God. I don't even wish to tell any one I am Christian. I am in the family of the One and Only Living God.

1 Corinthians Chapter 1

[daywalker]

Astrapho, Right before coming into Ray's Website I was looking around at different Christian Beliefs among other things. By the time I had read up on all of theses things I was totally confused. Then I had a feeling of fear in me. There are many people teaching that Paul was a fake some of them are not of God at all. They all are a part of Babylon. Jack Van Impe for example is talking about 2012 begining of time . Where, is he getting this teaching from Nostradums. Well, he was like a fortune teller. That, is a dead give away that most of christianity is not of God at all.

Now, the night I found Ray's website. I read for three days. I believed. Only, because God made the decision to open my eyes and give me ears to understand. Ray's website is the only one that convicts my heart that God has given Ray understanding of Gods truth. It is going to take me sometime to learn all Ray has shown me. Day by day itis sinking in. But, since day one God has given me peace in my life like I have never known. I mean I cannot get enough of God.  I would say the best thing for you is to do what others have told you. What, good does it to to argue with others, when we are just learning ourselves. We need to be corrected by God and given better understanding. What, makes the difference if they don't believe as you. You have been given a prescious gift from God. I don't even wish to tell any one I am Christian. I am in the family of the One and Only Living God.

1 Corinthians Chapter 1

Amen Marlene! Your post was beautiful! 

I barely found BT a little over a year ago, and the amount of change in me I've already seen, and the wisdom and understanding that I've already gained is beyond human comprehension. Indeed, God has been very gracious to us here.

To truly know why we are here, what our purpose is, what this life's all about... "The sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens" has been revealed to us! What can be more marvelous than that?


- Daywalker. 

[aqrinc]

Astrapho, Right before coming into Ray's Website I was looking around at different Christian Beliefs among other things. By the time I had read up on all of theses things I was totally confused. Then I had a feeling of fear in me. There are many people teaching that Paul was a fake some of them are not of God at all. They all are a part of Babylon. Jack Van Impe for example is talking about 2012 begining of time . Where, is he getting this teaching from Nostradums. Well, he was like a fortune teller. That, is a dead give away that most of christianity is not of God at all.

Now, the night I found Ray's website. I read for three days. I believed. Only, because God made the decision to open my eyes and give me ears to understand. Ray's website is the only one that convicts my heart that God has given Ray understanding of Gods truth. It is going to take me sometime to learn all Ray has shown me. Day by day itis sinking in. But, since day one God has given me peace in my life like I have never known. I mean I cannot get enough of God.  I would say the best thing for you is to do what others have told you. What, good does it to to argue with others, when we are just learning ourselves. We need to be corrected by God and given better understanding. What, makes the difference if they don't believe as you. You have been given a prescious gift from God. I don't even wish to tell any one I am Christian. I am in the family of the One and Only Living God.

1 Corinthians Chapter 1

Amen Marlene! Your post was beautiful! 

I barely found BT a little over a year ago, and the amount of change in me I've already seen, and the wisdom and understanding that I've already gained is beyond human comprehension. Indeed, God has been very gracious to us here.

To truly know why we are here, what our purpose is, what this life's all about... "The sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens" has been revealed to us! What can be more marvelous than that?


- Daywalker. 

Answer, NOTHING.

george. 

[larissa4676]

I've found that the Lord can teach from within scriptures or without. So I don't ponder whether or not someone was "real" enough, but rather ask what "real" lessons I can learn from what I am reading. Doesn't the Spirit teach us anyway?  This is why I don't fear if something is correct or not because the Lord will bring things He desires to reveal to us. The rest goes to hell to be burned eternally in a lake...I mean pond of fire...I mean lightning. LOL!

[Astrapho]

Answer, NOTHING.

srsly?

I shall start on the audios right nao, so far I've only read the transcript. Thanks Kat!

UPDATE:

Right, well I'm not replying to him on this one... He's actually worried because my previous replies were swift and now it has been a whole week since I replied.

But after all the posts above I decided against replying... Like Marques said, faith is a gift from God. I've been to some anti Paul sites and some of their claims are rather ridiculous... Paul said "I am your father" according to one... Where, I say?

Plus, I don't think I should be the one who corrects that guy's doctrine, since I have a colossal beam in my eye.