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Bringing the people out of Egypt
Roy Martin:
When God brought the people out of Egypt, He brought out believers and non believers. Pagans and just about every kind you can think of.
Ive been having a lot of thought about this, but cant quite put it together in words or thought, but maybe someone can help me put it together.
Its clear that He chose these people as an example for the whole world to see. It seems that they were the most rebellious and stubborn of all people all the way to now. Every time I open my bible, I see God punishing them for their sins of every kind. These people messed up more than they did good. These people were favored and provided for in every way. They knew there was God and that He was for them, yet they were bad to the core.
Im hoping for someone to pick up on this and add to my thoughts on this.
Roy
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Roy Martin on May 13, 2009, 06:33:03 AM ---When God brought the people out of Egypt, He brought out believers and non believers. Pagans and just about every kind you can think of.
Ive been having a lot of thought about this, but cant quite put it together in words or thought, but maybe someone can help me put it together.
Its clear that He chose these people as an example for the whole world to see. It seems that they were the most rebellious and stubborn of all people all the way to now. Every time I open my bible, I see God punishing them for their sins of every kind. These people messed up more than they did good. These people were favored and provided for in every way. They knew there was God and that He was for them, yet they were bad to the core.
Im hoping for someone to pick up on this and add to my thoughts on this.
Roy
--- End quote ---
These few scriptures speak a little about 'why' Israel was stubborn...all is of God:
1 Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
Deut 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Rom 11:7-15, 26-27
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
v26-27 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Ninny:
I think one of the reasons God did this was to show us that this is the "human condition" so to speak. I think Israel is all of us! He has shown me in this that we are all the same...We have what we have and it's never enough, we are blessed beyond measure, but we are ungrateful, unfaithful, and disloyal! We have the assurance that God is there...they had the fire by night, cloud by day...When Moses went on the mountain and was out of their sight for awhile they turned to other gods! When our life gets a little rocky and uncertain we tremble and start looking for answers from the world! As for the "mixed multitude" that left Egypt with them that shows me that here were people who thought that some kind of magical "luck" was with the Hebrews. Those people were pagans and they probably thought hey this new god might be pretty cool! Don't we usually follow after all the cool things that come around? Look at how many people are so enthralled with Joel Osteen, he's the best thing since sliced bread! What about "The Purpose Driven Life" Almost EVERY church had a Special study on that book when it came out!
That's just the way I think of the experience of Israel. God uses that to show us what we are...We can't look at them and think how different WE would have been they ARE us!!
My thoughts....
Kathy ;)
Kat:
Hi Roy,
1 Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
As Kathy was saying this is the physical example for us, the shadow. This is the physical example of a whole nation over a relative long period of time, through all kinds of circumstamces trying to live a godly life with just their own physical ability. Even though they had God providing them all the external help imaginable, this gives us all the recorded proof that we need, with this extensive example that we can not do it of ourselves.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
1Co 15:46 But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.
No matter how much outside help we are given, having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit on the inside makes the difference.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
v. 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Heb 10:9 then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.
Here is a chart that Ray put in an article that shows many examples from the scripture that shows the differences of the old covenant for the Israelites and the new covenant for god's Elect.
http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html --------------------
THE OLD COVENANT VERSUS THE NEW COVENANT
Here is the most concise Scriptural description of the Old and New Testament that I can give you:
"For the Law was given by Moses [that would be the OLD Covenant], but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ [that would be the NEW Covenant]" (John 1:17).
Law is good, but grace and truth is better. Grace and truth is a much more demanding and much higher calling. If you aspire to be among the "chosen" you must learn what the New Covenant really is. Here is a chart I prepared for a paper on The Law, which shows some of the many differences between the Old and the New Covenants—between Moses and Jesus:
Old Mosaic Covenant New Spiritual Covenant
OLD Covenant…II Cor. 3:14 NEW Covenant…II Cor. 3:6
FIRST Covenant…Heb. 8:7,9:1 SECOND Covenant…Heb. 8:7,10:1-9
Came by Moses…John 1:17 Came by Christ…Heb. 8:6,9:15
Law of God in STONE…II Cor. 3:3 -- Law of God in HEART…Heb. 10:16
Law of MOSES…Acts 13:38-39 Law of CHRIST…Gal. 6:2
Law of the flesh…Rom. 7:5-6 Law of the SPIRIT…Rom. 8:2
NOT of faith…Gal. 3:2 Law of FAITH…Rom. 3:27
Yoke of BONDAGE…Gal. 5:1 Law of LIBERTY…James 1:25
Law of SIN…Rom. 7:5-6 Law of RIGHTEOUSNESS…Rom. 9:30-31
Law of DEATH…II Cor. 3:7 Law of LIFE…Gal. 3:11, 6:8
Christ removes OLD…Heb. 10:9 Christ enacted the NEW…Heb.10:9
A SHADOW…Col. 2:14-17 The REALITY…Heb. 10:1-18
FULFILLED…Matt. 5:17-18 NOW IN FORCE…Heb. 8:6,10:9
Priesthood CHANGED…Heb. 7:12 UNCHANGEABLE Priesthood…Heb. 7:24
MANY sacrifices…Heb. 9:12-13 ONE sacrifice for sin…Heb. 10:12
IMPERFECT…Heb. 7:19 PERFECT…Heb. 7:19
Blood of ANIMALS…Heb. 9:19 Blood of CHRIST…Matt. 26:28
Circumcision…Ex. 12:48 Uncircumcision…Rom. 4:9-12
WORKS of law…Gal. 3:10 NOT of works but GRACE…Eph. 2:8
REMEMBERS sins…Heb. 10:3 FORGETS sins…Heb. 10:17
YEARLY atonement…Heb. 10:3 PERMANENT atonement…Heb. 10:4
SINFUL priests…Heb. 5:3 SINLESS priest…Heb. 7:26
AARONIC priesthood…Heb. 7:11 MELCHISEDEC priest…Heb. 5:5-10
MANMADE tabernacle…Heb. 8:5 HEAVENLY tabernacle…Heb. 8:2,11
Out of LEVI…Heb. 7:11 Out of JUDAH…Heb. 7:14
WEAK, UNPROFITABLE…Heb. 7:18 POWER of ENDLESS LIFE…Heb. 7:16
NO inheritance…Rom. 4:13 ETERNAL inheritance…Heb. 9:15
Sacrifice of ANIMALS…Heb. 9:13 Sacrifice of CHRIST…Heb. 9:28
Purified the FLESH…Heb. 8:13 Purged the CONSCIENCE…Heb. 8:14
PRODUCES wrath…Rom. 4:15 SAVES from wrath…Rom. 5:9
Perfected NOTHING…Heb. 7:19 Perfects BELIEVERS…Heb. 10:14
NO MERCY…Heb. 10:28 COMPLETE MERCY…Heb. 8:12
NO justification…Acts 13:39 BELIEVERS justified…Acts 13:39
BRINGS a curse…Gal. 3:10 REDEEMS from curse…Acts 3:13
ABOLISHED…II Cor. 3:13 CONTINUES IN GLORY…II Cor. 3:11
Brought DEATH…II Cor. 3:7 Brought RECONCILIATION…II Cor. 5:18
ISRAEL ONLY…Deut. 4:7-8,5:3 ALL MANKIND…Mark 14:24, II Cor. 5:14-19
This chart by no means exhausts all the differences between the Old and New Covenants. Can you not see how totally different the New is from the Old? As God’s Word says, the New Covenant is, "NOT ACCORDING to the covenant that I made with their fathers…" (Heb. 8:9).
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
Akira329:
Hi Kat!
Did Ray mean to use this verse in this section.
Matthew 26:28 says, But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?
Blood of ANIMALS…Heb. 9:19 Blood of CHRIST…Matt. 26:28
Is it used correctly?
Maybe its another verse?
Thanks
Antaiwan
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