> General Discussions
Love Your Enemies?
cjwood:
joe and antaiwan,
thanks so much for bringing up the old papers by ray on God is Love. sometimes the simplest Scriptures say the most it seems. God IS love and for that simple reason alone it should be easy to understand that He cannot torture anyone in a literal hell just for the sake of "getting back at them". but He will show them His pure love after they have gone through the Spiritual fire in the lake of fire. your posts reminded me of the mother's day card i received from my daughter:
"we have been created for greater things. not just to be a number in the world, not just to go for diplomas and degrees, this work and that work. we have been created in order to LOVE and to be loved." mother teresa
although i know that we who are called and chosen have been created to be becoming in His image, but the gist of mother teresa's quote is LOVE.
Love = God = Love
claudia
arion:
--- Quote ---Heb. 12:6-8, "For whom the Lord LOVES He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives. If ye endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for which son is he whom the father chastens not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons."
--- End quote ---
Going to have to take the 'B' word out of the language filters here. I remember one of Ray's teachings (I think it was does God save all?) where he said that a lot of scriptures prove that he will save all even if they don't directly say it. This is one of those here. The word for all is 'pas' which we've all seen before. In part (Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: -) All are going to be son's (eventually) and all are going to receive chastisement. Seems pretty inclusive to me.
As far as loving your enemies I'm seeing this more and more lately. We were talking about this on a different forum that I'm on and the topic was about how many Christians are supporting the torturing of prisoners by the government under the guise of preventing future terror attacks. It's amazing how many are totally willing to throw away the scriptures and see no problem with torturing our enemies. Instead of What Would Jesus Do perhaps we should consider Who Would Jesus Torture.
There was a time also that I'm ashamed to say that I saw no problem in supporting whatever the government and the military would do because after all we're Americans here and God is on our side. How rank and how deceived!! If I really love somehow how can I then support torture? This is sort of off topic perhaps but it all go's back the the orthodox teaching on hell. One of the posters on the other forum mentioned that torture is supported because after all God is going to torture the infedels in hell for eternity. I can't believe that I believed these lies at one time.
Torture and loving your enemies are as far apart as the east is from the west. But it's amazing how blind you are until God opens your eyes to it.
Robin:
Romans 12
14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
I sat through a whole sermon once before leaving the church that used the scripture above to say the reason we pray for our enemies is to heap burning coals on their heads in hell. I'm sure there are many that believe that. We've all seen the emails that rejoice in the thought of Ray going to hell and end the email with "I'll pray for you".
Romans 3
9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."
13"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."
14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know."
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."
19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Romans 5:
10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Jesus prayed for his enemies.
Luke 23:
34But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing " And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.
Romans 5:
7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
The belief in Free Will is one of the greatest evils. They believe they choose God and save themselves by accepting the free gift of salvation. Others do not choose God and do not accept the gift of salvation and send themselves to hell. Poor God just helplessly sits around hoping to be chosen.
John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last.
Philippians 2:9-11
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
God really does love his enemies.
Isaiah 26:
9 My soul yearns for you in the night;
in the morning my spirit longs for you.
When your judgments come upon the earth,
the people of the world learn righteousness.
bunnylife:
If someone murdered your brother, they would not be considered your friend but your enemy.
Do you love them? Do you forgive them? Unforgiveness is a sin. If justice was not done as murderers get a life sentence. Do you get angry? or know the vengeance is the Lord's and God is in control.
So they get a 20 year sentence with a chance at parole. Kind of hard to think they could get out. Say your brother was 30 when he died. They are 42 and still living. How do you feel towards them? Still walking in forgiveness or getting bitter?
Less than two years from now, I will go before court system (if I am still alive) and asked for this person not to be released. However, if he is then I know this is what God wants and has a purpose. I have forgiven this man. I do pray for him. He is not my friend as I don't know him but do I love him? Yes. Matt. 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
I am not doing this in my own strength but only by God's grace and His life in me ... the nature of Love. I say this because this is the topic of loving your enemies and for Daddy God to receive all the glory.
mharrell08:
Great thread Joe :)
Matt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, MERCY, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Rom 11:30-31 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Prov 14:21 He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.
Prov 3:3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
Ps 136:1-26 ...for His mercy endureth for ever...for His mercy endureth for ever...for His mercy endureth for ever... [end of every verse]
Marques
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