Hi Tre1,
I'm glad you have joined us
I did find where Ray has a bit concerning the book of Daniel. Here is an excerpt from the article 'The Myth of Free-Will Exposed' installment 15 - Part D.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html -------------------------------------
THE KING OF BABYLON COMES OUT OF BABYLON
One of the most remarkable stories ever told, is virtually never ever told in the Church. That is the trial God inflicted upon King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. They have not a clue as to what it means or what was accomplished by it. Maybe we should read it.
God gave King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon a dream, part of which Daniel interprets as follows:
"That they shall drive you from men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you, TILL YOU KNOW THAT THE MOST HIGH RULES IN THE KINGDOM OF MEN, AND GIVES IT TO WHOMESOEVER HE WILL" (Dan. 4:25).
Do we think that God doesn’t do things like this anymore? Do we think that God "changes" the way that He does things today? Do we think that God is a "respecter of persons?"
From the above verse in Daniel, does it appear that God knows in advance whether His plan will work or not? Can God predict with certainty that He will get the desired result for His actions in the affairs of mankind? Does man have a "free will" which could possibly alter the outcome of what God predetermines must be? I speak as a fool.
"At the end of twelve months he [Nebuchadnezzar] walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.
The king spoke, and said, is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of MY power, and for the honor of MY majesty?" (Dan. 4:29-30).
Sounds like the voice of a true "free-willer" doesn’t it? This is how all free-willers speak and believe. "I am responsible for my actions and you are responsible for your actions. I can will to do good if I so desire, and you can will to do good if you so desire. God does not, and will not, ever interfere with man’s free will, free choice, free moral agency." Is this a nursery rhyme we are reading in Dan. 4, or is this the word of God?
God says to Nebuchadnezzar: "Here is what I will do to you, and here is the result it will accomplish": "...till YOU KNOW..." is God’s pronouncement.
Back to the palace:
"While the word was in the king’s mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from you.
The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles’ feathers, and his nails like birds claws" (Verses 31 & 33).
Will God’s plan for the king accomplish the desired result? What if the king uses his "free will" against God’s plan? What if the king desires to will something altogether different from what God has already preordained will happen with the king’s heart? Again, I speak as a fool:
"And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up my eyes unto heaven, and my understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honored Him that lives for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing [‘nothing’ is pretty small]: and He does according to His Will.."
WAIT, WAIT, STOP! What is this? What is this that we are reading? "God does according to HIS will...?" But if this statement is true, then where pray tell, does that leave MAN’S will?
Right here, dear readers, is a drama to end all dramas of the ages. Talk about Greek tragedy—we are about to witness a great Babylonian tragedy. There is a battle of the wills going on in this drama. God pits HIS will against that of king Neduchadnezzar. Hmmm...wonder which one will win?
Consider with a rational mind for a moment the implications of the outcome of this great drama. If man’s will [in this case king Nebuchadnezzar’s] should win, then he has not only made a LIAR out of God, but he has in fact DEFEATED God. On the other hand, if God’s will should win out, then we have conclusive, Scriptural proof, that MAN DOES NOT HAVE A WILL THAT CAN OPERATE CONTRARY TO, INDEPENDENT OF, AND IN OPPOSITION TO, THE DECLARATIONS OF GOD’S PLAN AND PURPOSE.
Yes, we are about to settle this controversy regarding man’s fabled free will that supposedly enables him to will contrary to what God has ordained MUST HAPPEN. Continuing:
"...And He [God] does according to HIS will in the inhabitants of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none... [How many? ‘NONE.’ How many are left out? ‘NONE.’ How many have a free will that can will against God’s declared intentions? ‘NONE.’ How many stubborn, dyed-in-the-wool, free-willers will repent and believe this declaration of God Himself? ‘NONE.’] ...and NONE can stay [restrain] His hand, or say unto Him, What are You doing?" (Verse 35).
It doesn’t get any clearer than this. If you can’t accept this truth and repent of your egotistical, self worth, and self superiority, thinking that you can thwart the very intentions of God’s Own will any time you desire, then you too will be PUNISHED for your stout and arrogant heart:
"Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, all Whose works are Truth, and His ways justice: and those that walk in pride He is able to abase [HUMBLE]" (Verse 37).
God told Daniel that only the "wise" would understand these things:
"And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and NONE of the wicked shall understand; but the WISE shall understand" (Dan. 12:9-10).
Remember that God repeats for emphasis those things that are extremely important:
ONCE:
"...to the intent that the living may know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever He will..." (Dan. 4:17).
A SECOND:
"...and seven times shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever He will" (Ver. 25).
A THIRD:
"till you shall have known that the heavens do rule..." (Verse 26).
A FOURTH:
"...seven times shall pass over you until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives sit to whomsoever He will" (Ver. 32).
A FIFTH:
"...and I blessed the Most High and I praised and honored Him…and He does according to HIS WILL in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth and NONE can stay His hand..." (Ver. 34-35).
A SIXTH:
"...And he was driven from the sons of men, and his heart was made like the beasts… till he knew that the Most High God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that He appoints over it whomsoever He will" (Dan. 5:21).
Can we now believe that it is important to understand that we can accomplish nothing of our own will, and that it is not free to do anything independent of God and His purpose? Does not the mere fact that God repeats this grand declaration six times on two pages prove just how very very important this teaching is? Where else has God repeated Himself six times on two pages regarding one aspect of man’s nature which must be changed?
Did not Nebuchadnezzar have a "will?" Of course he did. Did he not claim that it was by his own will that he accomplished what he did in his great kingdom? Of course he did. Did God show him that his thinking and philosophy of life and self-determinism was wrong? Yes He did. Did the king acknowledge his own stupidity and vanity? Yes he did. Does the king give us wise warning as to what God will do to all others who have this same arrogant belief that they can do things independent of God through their fabled free will? A word to the wise is sufficient.
IRONY OF IRONIES
God commands His people to come out of Babylon:
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER [MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH, Rev. 17:5] MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).
Babylon the Great was alive and well when John wrote Revelation. It has been alive and well down through the centuries. It is alive and well today. God’s elect have always been commanded to "COME OUT OF HER, My people."
King Nebuchadnezzar himself came out of Babylon over which he himself was the king! That’s right. Nebuchadnezzar the very king of Babylon, spiritually, came out of Babylon.
And yet....and YET, Christendom has not a clue as to who Babylon the Great is, and it has not a clue as to what it means to come out of Babylon. We just read how king Nebuchadnezzar came out of Babylon. God turned the king into a BEAST:
"…Let his heart be changed from man’s, and let a BEAST’S HEART BE GIVEN UNTO HIM: and let seven times pass over him" (Dan. 4:16).
King Nebuchadnezzar’s heart was turned into that of a beast, and Prov. 23:7 tells us:
"For as he thinks in his HEART, SO IS HE..."
And God calls us all "beasts"
"I said in my heart concerning the estate of the sons of man, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves ARE BEASTS" (Ecc. 3:18).
What was it the king of Babylon had to learn? What was it he believed to be true, that God says is not true, and therefore man must repent of?
What Nebuchadnezzar believed:
"The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of MY POWER, and for the honour of MY MAJESTY?" (Dan. 4:30).
What God showed him to be the real truth:
"And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he does according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and NONE can stay [restrain] His hand..." (Dan. 4:35).
Nebuchadnezzar said that He did things by his own power for his own honour and majesty. Is this possible. Can any man do such things by his own power of will? No, "NONE" God’s Word states. On the other hand, does God always do according to HIS WILL among all the inhabitants of the earth? Yes. Do any inhabitants of the earth have the power of will to thwart God’s will? "NONE" God’s word states.
Now then, Does God say that He, "...WILL have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (I Tim. 2:4)?
Is that a "YES," I hear out there in computerland?
Okay then, Does God say that He, "does according to HIS WILL …among the inhabitants of the earth..." (Dan. 4:35)?
But can’t the "free will/choice" of mankind stay or refrain God’s hand from accomplishing what He desires?
Answer: "...and NONE can stay His hand..." (Ver. 35b).
Does the world of Christendom believe and teach these grand declarations of God Almighty? No, of course not. Their own declared freedom of will contradicts and blasphemes all of God’s declarations concerning His plan to save the human race.
How many hundreds of Scriptural proofs does your mind need before you are willing to give up this damnable idol of the heart for which Nebuchadnezzar was turned into a beast? What will it take to remove this heresy from your heart?
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I also would like to give you some links to things we have here at the forum that you might like to check out.
The forum rules, it will help you see how this forum is moderated.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.htmlhttp://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4558.0.htmlhttp://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.0.htmlForum Indexes & lots of Info.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,14.0.htmlRay's Videos
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8227.0.htmlRay's Audios
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2641.0.htmlRay's 2008 Audios
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8256.0.htmlTranscripts of Ray's Audios
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,12.0.htmlWho Am I? (members pics and personal stuff)
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/board,16.0.htmlmercy, peace and love
Kat
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