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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: darren on July 13, 2013, 11:43:01 AM
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Greetings B.T. family, to me one of the best sayings Ray has tough me was and is U MUST READ THE WORDS. We have word for word in many scriptures that tells us that God is love. These Scriptures are stated as fact, the words are God is love. Theres no guessing, opinions or speculation is to what many scriptures state word for word, God is love. Here is my question. Can the B.T family help me find 2 or more scriptures that state as fact with the words that ( every thing that happens to humanity is all part of Gods plan). Are there any 2 or more scriptures that states the words God has a plan. I guess Plan is the key word I'm looking for. This is very important for me at this time in my life so i will thank you now for any help on this matter.
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Hi darren and all,
Not sure you can find one or two scriptures that summarize what you seek. Here are some scriptures that might help us build on answering your question. I am sure others will refine and contribute:
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
Then of course there is John 3:16
Also the OT Holy Days of God as given in Leviticus 23 reveal the plan of God.
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Darren,
The word [plan] may not be stated, but there are scriptures that deal with it, I think.
Consider:
Psalm 33: 10-11,
Proverbs 16:9, Proverbs 19:21,
Isaiah 14: 24, Isaiah 25:1,
Jeremiah 29:11,
Luke 12: 11-12,
Ephesians 1: 3-10, Ephesians 3: 1-10
and James 4: 13-16.
Man to me almost every scripture shows me God's got a plan, hahaha.
JohnChris
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seems like every man is a man with a plan too, JohnChris but the Lord just laughs.
Thanks for those, I think that will be my afternoon reading.
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thanks Dave, JohnChris, and Microlink for taking the time to reply. would you 3 agree or disagree that God being in control of all things is the same as God has a plan?
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thanks Dave, JohnChris, and Microlink for taking the time to reply. would you 3 agree or disagree that God being in control of all things is the same as God has a plan?
Hi, if God didn't have a plan then He created this universe and the human species just just to see what would happen. But if that's the case then He doesn't know the end from the beginning, is not involved at all in our lives other than being a spectator, is not sovereign, etc. See, so you really can't say that God doesn't have a purpose and plan for this creation without demeaning and even blaspheming Him, and contradicting dozens of scriptures. I would think that sending His only begotten Son to be the Savior of the world indicates some kind of a plan, don't you think? Calling things that are not as though they were, etc.
Hope this helps. I know you wanted verses and such but I am limited to my smartphone at this time, so bear with me on this. I'm working with what I currently have at my disposal.
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Darren, "God has a plan" is more a short description of Scriptural Truth than a "truth" unto itself, as true as it may be.
But to answer your question, I would agree that "God being in control of all things is the pretty much the same as God has a plan?" given the Scriptures John provided and many others. The Scripture is more fleshed out.
You don't have to answer, but can I ask you why this is so important right now?
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Yes Dave the ansewer to your question for me, ( I am not being a smart *^~). I am going through a very difficlute time at this moment. Death of loved ones lost of income, my home Things that everybody goes through. You probable know or may not I, like many many others lost everything we owned in 06 due to Katrina.
Before i continue let me point out that i am very blessed and greatfull for what i did and will have through the grace of God. I am just a mear motal and concerned, being a Man from the old school it is my dutiy as a man and the head of my household my oblagation and responsibilty to make sure my family has a roof over their heads. Food and clothing. They should not worry about such things. This is my job as protector of my family. In my opinon this is one of the reason God created man first. Sorry enough carrying on You get the picture. That my friend is my ansewer to your question.
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Keep faith, Darren. I'm just glad to know this isn't a theological discussion. Will pray for you as will others. Do good always.
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Yes Dave the ansewer to your question for me, ( I am not being a smart *^~). I am going through a very difficlute time at this moment. Death of loved ones lost of income, my home Things that everybody goes through. You probable know or may not I, like many many others lost everything we owned in 06 due to Katrina.
Before i continue let me point out that i am very blessed and greatfull for what i did and will have through the grace of God. I am just a mear motal and concerned, being a Man from the old school it is my dutiy as a man and the head of my household my oblagation and responsibilty to make sure my family has a roof over their heads. Food and clothing. They should not worry about such things. This is my job as protector of my family. In my opinon this is one of the reason God created man first. Sorry enough carrying on You get the picture. That my friend is my ansewer to your question.
Praying for your dear brother.
God has a plan and rest assured, He phileo's you and all His chosen. You are special to Him, take comfort in knowing that. I believe it was king solomon who said; With increasing knowledge comes increasing sorrow. We are indeed unique to our Father entirely because of His doing but the calling to be a son is high and the price, may at times, appear to be very steep. Take heart in knowing His love for you, His jealous watch over you and the desire to do all things for our benefit.
I know.. easier said than done. I'm entirely guilty of being a fool in times of distress so I admonish no brother or sister by superiority. I am certainly among the lowest when it comes to such things.
With love,
Alex
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Hi Darren,
Sometimes when we see things around us seemingly so out of control we do wonder if God is there or do things just happen at random, just time and chance. I am assured that things are not random, God is sovereign and therefore totally in control.
Isa 46:10 declaring the end from the beginning, and from the past things which were not done, saying, My purpose shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure;
Your life and all lives are carefully orchestrated, how else can He know "the end from the beginning"? And in our lives He is creating and incredible diverse family, bought about by the circumstances we experience. We think we are in control or trying to work out at least some things in our lives, but are we really.
Jer 10:23 I know, O LORD, that the way of man is not in himself, that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps.
Pro 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps.
God does have a plan and we need to pray for faith to trust that He does indeed have our best interest in mind in the way that things are working out, for a few now to salvation and the rest as well just a bit in the future.
Eph 1:11 in whom also we have been chosen to an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose G4286 of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His own will,
purpose
G4286 prothesis - a setting forth, that is, (figuratively) proposal (intention); specifically the show bread (in the Temple) as exposed before God: - purpose, shew [-bread].
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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The Lord God has a plan with purpose, and attempting to understand that plan and purpose with my mind and intelligence is empty, without a path, I embrace and hold to faith(His faith) when it comes to what little my mind and intelligence may claim to have. He is Good, that's all I KNOW.
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darren, in case you are still reading posts on your thread, i wanted to point to one of the Scripture references johnchris gave. it has always been one of my favorites.
jeremiah 29:11
"for I know the plans which I am planning for you Declareth Yahweh, plans of welfare and not of calamity, to give you a future and a hope." (rotherhams)
that is a direct statement from Jesus Christ, the God of the OT, declaring to us that He most definitely has a plan.
claudia
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Hi Darren:
Here is a very detailed answer to your question: http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html (http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html)
A weak ago I spend a lot of meditation time on that paper. Here is your answer:
"To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).
Then it says, time for this, time for that... and the point is, EVERYTHIG has a purpose here on earth.And if God is evil, then it will be an ugly purpose, But if God is good...
Just think about the word ''pre-destination'', which is there on the Scriptures.
In my personal life experience God have been easy with me by letting me go through many things (good and bad) with very little possibilities to happen, which have made it easier for me to be able to understand a little bit this truth.
So I would put it on this way: EVERYTHIG that happens on our daily life;has the huge weight of history behind it. Therefore EVERYTHIG that happens can only go ONE WAY. God already knows (because he has already designed it) our whole life, He is like the best social enginer ever. Maybe we should not say, ''if God wills'' but ''if God already willed it''...
Moises
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As I was praying today for Darren and some others who are going through great personal loss I was lead to reflect on the Lazarus narrative in John 11. I had often wondered why Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus. Why would he weep if he knew that moments later Lazarus would walk out of the tomb. Yes, he shared the grief of the bereaved family, but weep, surely not. I wouldn't. But I am not God, the author of that grief! I believe that Jesus knew that He had caused Lazarus' death, that he had caused all death since the beginning of this world. He knew that there would always be death and destruction, despair, hunger, sadness, sorrow, loss and pain. Everything that we would rather wish away, Jesus sovereignly ordained for our good. Good, yes, in His wisdom and understanding. Something that we will not comprehend in our wisdom and limited understanding, but good nonetheless. And so Jesus hurts, just as a parent does, seeing his child cry in pain at the stab of a vaccine needle or having to go through a difficult situation for his own good. Jesus wept. I believe that He still weeps. I still don't understand why chidren suffer from cancer, are brutally raped and murdered. I don't understand many things, but it is comforting that God knows understands. That He is sovereign. In control. That He has a plan. Only One such as Him can promise,
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Rev 21:4
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Darren, great question, and great replies by all! loretta, that was beautiful!
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Rev 21:4
I just wanted to expand on it a bit...
It IS for that verse right there why there are rapes and kids get cancer. How could there be tears for God to wipe away if there was nothing to grieve over? We wouldn't know how good God is if there was no evil to contrast it by. But we know this, everything we go through in the flesh in this age will be swallowed up by God's surpassing goodness! It feels tough right now, hard, but for the joy of the cross, Christ endured (as do we).
We all have to come to a knowledge of good and evil in order to be created in God's image. Eating this tree kills us yes... but it's ALL part of the awesome plan of God!!
Moises G., so true, so true. "To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).
Love you guys!
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Hi,Here is something Ray responded to in one of his emails regarding God's PLAN:
If only theologians could come to understand that God is not running a damage control center from His throne of the universe. God is NOT picking up the pieces. He is not trying to get things back to being as good as they once were. He is not trying to figure out how to outsmart Satan. He is not falling behind, numerically, as far as how many will be saved and how many will be lost. God is far smarter and wiser and the stupid men who come up with these insane and blasphemous theories and doctrines.
God has a PLAN. (Wow, now there's a revelation for theologians). And God is working out that plan to perfection on a perfect schedule, and He will loose NOTHING! Paul tells us in Rom. 11:36 that ALL is out of God and THROUGH God and FOR God. God is creating man in His OWN IMAGE. It is a PROCESS. That process is on perfect schedule. It WILL be successful. Christ IS the savior of the world and therefore, He WILL SAVE THE WORLD
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Reading what Ray said: "God is not running a damage control center" makes me shake my head at anyone who really believes God is not in control. After all these years at BT God being in control is as natural as breathing.
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Hi,
I totally agree Dennis. Its to bad only a few understand about the majesty and perfection of
god's plan of salvation. The elect know very well that all is of God. What a blessing.
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It IS for that verse right there why there are rapes and kids get cancer. How could there be tears for God to wipe away if there was nothing to grieve over? We wouldn't know how good God is if there was no evil to contrast it by. But we know this, everything we go through in the flesh in this age will be swallowed up by God's surpassing goodness! It feels tough right now, hard, but for the joy of the cross, Christ endured (as do we).
We all have to come to a knowledge of good and evil in order to be created in God's image. Eating this tree kills us yes... but it's ALL part of the awesome plan of God!!
That was so profound! :) Tks se7en
That God is sovereign and has a plan, has settled all doubts for me. For this and more I am so grateful to Ray and BT.
loretta
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Thanks to you ,the B.T. family for all the great replies. I take these hard times as a test. a test on my personal growth in my faith and trust in The Lord. As I stated in my early post that I am just a meer mortal who falls short in many things in life. I am very bless and greatfull to The Lord for what He has giving me. I come to understand that there are many things that I might never understand. This is when I come to understand it is best to let go and let God. That said, I am a husband to my wife. I am a Father to my children. I am a man who takes the role of protector, and head of my family with the up most responsibility. I failed in many things in my life. In this matter I will not fail unless it is Gods Will. If that is the case I will go down in death fighting all the way. I do believe God does have a plan and I will have trust. Not to say, I will do whatever is in or I think is in my power to do what I must in-order to make sure they have shelter, clothing, food and most importantly LOVE and SURPORT. Listen I am the head my household, I am the king of my castle. ( well my wife lets me think so ) I know without her there is no me. She is the rock in witch our house is built upon.
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Nice sharing there, Darren. This morning, during my quiet time, I was rueing the fact that I have not been as successful as some of my contemporaries - good careers, marriages, exciting lives etc... Then again, looking back on the last 30 odd years, it has been nothing but the sovereign hand of God that turned and twisted my life. I was in my twenties, use to sing in the church choir, when one Sunday morning, a lady walked up to me and said that God had great plans for me. Great plans? I couldn't discern any! I had sensed God's call upon my life, but uptil then I chose to control the outcome of my life. It was a only decade later that I conceded defeat and let God be God in my life. And another decade before I learnt the precious truth that I probably am of the elect, being prepared through the twists and turns in my life, to reign with Christ in His Kingdom. I am learning that the great plans God has for me will be revealed not in this age, but in the age to come.
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Really? From the title of the thread, we should know the answer. Just saying
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Really? From the title of the thread, we should know the answer. Just saying
ftp://
;D
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The anwer is yes. Thats it
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For human beings to achieve anything of significance they must have a plan. That's why the intelligent ones always do...
All successful businesses have business plans...and these are checked DAILY and followed through METICULOUSLY.
They say: "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail"...or "A business with no plan, is a business with no future".
Now imagine Him, who is Greater than all of us...so Greater is He, that we are not even at a stage to call ourselves His children (I believe the human race is the Spiritual equivalent of the human fetus).
"For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength." (1 Cor.1:25)
Not only does God have a plan, it is a perfect one...perfect because God is in absolute control (sovereign), bear in mind God created His own adversary...that's how much in control He is.
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I see where some here say they know their part of God's elite. Many will be called, few will be chosen. personally I think it is a bold statement to say one knows they are part of the few chosen. How does one know for sure. I believe Ray stated that we would not know until the first Resurrection whoever is in that number is the elite the few.
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Agree with you Darren.
Here is a bit from Ray on it:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2059.msg16747.html#msg16747 (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2059.msg16747.html#msg16747)
Ray,
Thank you for your work.
Is there an article or book I can look at which will discuss "The Elect" found in the new testament from the universal salvation perspective??
Are "The elect" the sheep that Jesus talks about which will be seperated from the goats??
If so can someone be one of the elect(sheep) and then lose his way and then at the judgement be placed not with the sheep but with the goats??
Sorry, I don't write very well but hope the above makes a little sense.
Thank you again for your work.
Kelly
Dear Kelly:
Those whom God has foreordained to be the elect will always be the elect. The chosen elect cannot be lost. But you and I do not know exactly who is and who isn't an elect. Only God's knows those who are His, and therefore, we can never let down our guard, because we might only think that we are elect. I have seen and witnessed this with my own eyes where those who appeared to be elect, turned and now blaspheme the name of the Saviour they claimed to worship a short while back.
Sorry, don't know of any books that you can read on this subject.
God be with you,
Ray
I know for myself that God is doing a work in me but what that is in His hands. I know that I'm secure in Him and His will is going to be done whether elect or not.
I look at it like this too - God knows what is best for us. Often we think if I only I had this or that then I would be better off but would we and how do you know that. I've seen a lack of things to be a blessing later on. If I had all the money would I be here with a hunger for God's truth.
I'm sure whatever we go through God has a reason and it may not be the reason we think or hope for but it will be what is best for us.
Rhys
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A scripture that keeps coming to mind while reading this post is;
2ND Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves, Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Joel
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veering slightly off topic Rhys/Darren ...there is a place of obscurity with me when referring to the elect .... see what Paul has to say about his "crown"
2Ti_4:8 Now, a prize is waiting for me--the crown that will show I am right with God. The Lord, the judge who judges rightly, will give it to me on that Day. Yes, he will give it to me and to everyone else who is eagerly looking forward to his coming.
in Rays word "we can Know"
Ian
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veering slightly off topic Rhys/Darren ...there is a place of obscurity with me when referring to the elect .... see what Paul has to say about his "crown"
2Ti_4:8 Now, a prize is waiting for me--the crown that will show I am right with God. The Lord, the judge who judges rightly, will give it to me on that Day. Yes, he will give it to me and to everyone else who is eagerly looking forward to his coming.
in Rays word "we can Know"
Ian
The following passage of Scripture makes it clear what it takes to make our calling and election sure. We all need to continually examine ourselves to make sure we are not lacking these virtues.
2 Peter 1:
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
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12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
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Yes it is God that does it all, nobody questions that... but it is "God who works IN YOU" so that it is possible that "WE work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
v. 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
2Co 7:1 Having, then, these promises, beloved, we should be cleansing ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit, completing holiness in the fear of God."
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.
Mat 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
v. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
v. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Yes we give God all the glory that by His Holy Spirit we can have good works.
Eph 3:20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
v. 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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God alone is the Power behind what we do. We can't even find our way to the bathroom without God's direction, much less making our calling and election sure.
Trust JfK to come up with such an analogy! :)
Which reminds me of my demised father who suffered from Alzheimer's. When he would visit with us, he'd sleep in a room with an attached bathroom. Yet, each morning, I would find puddles all over the house but during the day he would find his way to the bathroom. Guess, we're like that, disoriented in the dark. That is why we're commanded to walk in the light, that we may be children of the light.
Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Yes, there are moments when we 'can know' our calling and election. Other times we will not be so sure. This is also of God, to keep us on our guard. But God will be All in All and in that confidence I rest. Rather I try to rest. :)