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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Flanagan on December 10, 2016, 06:37:24 PM
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Hello dear Brothers and Sisters. I have a question, looking for some input.
If I want to give a witness to someone say on Youtube or even in person, what would you recommend? say something fairly short but hopefully to plant a seed with someone? I'd appreciate some suggestions. Thanks everyone.
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Hi Flanagan:
The best short advice I would give is to "speak the truth in love", quoting Scripture to them in all meekness and humility, and possibly referring them to Bible Truths. Use judgment as to whether they are receptive to your replies as well.
Dean
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Hello dear Brothers and Sisters. I have a question, looking for some input.
If I want to give a witness to someone say on Youtube or even in person, what would you recommend? say something fairly short but hopefully to plant a seed with someone? I'd appreciate some suggestions. Thanks everyone.
I recommend that when you feel like witnessing to someone that you take a shot of whisky to clear your head.
Turn away from the false ideas of the great evil satanic churches. It is not our job to witness or try to save people.
Jesus and He alone is Saviour. It is His job and He is very good at it. He does not need our help.
Only a very, very small number of people are being saved at this time. Most of humanity will not be saved until the next age, after the return of the Great King. That is why Jesus spoke in parables and has blinded the understanding of the Many.
We are told to give an answer to those who ask us, but I have found that it is a complete waste of time since they cannot understand without the Spirit of God.
My family still try to get me to pray at family dinners, which of course I never do. They ask me why and I tell them I follow Jesus Who tells us to pray in private and not to say the same stupid words over and over. At my mother's funeral, several times the Our Father prayer was said, and I did not participate. Many could not understand why I did not participate or even stand up during the church service.
Jesus tells us to "come out of her My people."
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Flanagan -
You raise an important point:
Hello dear Brothers and Sisters. I have a question, looking for some input.
If I want to give a witness to someone say on Youtube or even in person, what would you recommend? say something fairly short but hopefully to plant a seed with someone? I'd appreciate some suggestions. Thanks everyone.
I have never been led to witness, in the way christian orthodoxy demands.
If you have been dragged from the world To Him, and His Holy Spirit dwells within you - you are 'His Witness', in how you now conduct you life (as opposed to how you used to) - in that, everything yo say and do 'Witness' to others, who you are - one who is peculiar. They may be Blind and / or deceived - but 'His Elect are to be His Living Witnesses'.
A member of 'His Elect' may plant a single seed in one of those of the world, which, in time, He may germinate - but this may be in 'The Next Age' - as 'He is only dragging the few to Him in This Age of Grace'.
I hope this helps a little.
Warmest Regards.
George
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My condolences for your mother's passing JFK. May God's peace be with you.
Jingle
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Hello,
I do it sometimes with Music. Music to me has a Universal Language.
From time to time I will give someone a CD which i have recorded with some appropriate songs.
But I only do this after i have gotten to know them and they have gotten to know me.
Also I am a ten pin bowler. In this sport i have travelled extensively. And by this I have witnessed not so much by Word but by deeds.
To witness, to me, you must have common ground so that you can 'Relate' in the first place.
No body that I know has ever come to 'The Lord' in my time in this sport.
But I have been a 'Light' in 'Dark Places'. Whether this has affected anybody in this time the Lord 'Only' Knows.
Like JFK said its not my job to 'Save' people. This is the Lord's job and Him alone.
But it is my job to be a 'Light' where ever I go.
What does it take to be this 'Light'. Only you can know and if you don't, Search it out and 'BE IT'.
Love To You All, Regards Geoff.
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John -
You have provided very wise words here, for us all to consider very carefully:
Hello dear Brothers and Sisters. I have a question, looking for some input.
If I want to give a witness to someone say on Youtube or even in person, what would you recommend? say something fairly short but hopefully to plant a seed with someone? I'd appreciate some suggestions. Thanks everyone.
I recommend that when you feel like witnessing to someone that you take a shot of whisky to clear your head.
Turn away from the false ideas of the great evil satanic churches. It is not our job to witness or try to save people.
Jesus and He alone is Saviour. It is His job and He is very good at it. He does not need our help.
Only a very, very small number of people are being saved at this time. Most of humanity will not be saved until the next age, after the return of the Great King. That is why Jesus spoke in parables and has blinded the understanding of the Many.
We are told to give an answer to those who ask us, but I have found that it is a complete waste of time since they cannot understand without the Spirit of God.
My family still try to get me to pray at family dinners, which of course I never do. They ask me why and I tell them I follow Jesus Who tells us to pray in private and not to say the same stupid words over and over. At my mother's funeral, several times the Our Father prayer was said, and I did not participate. Many could not understand why I did not participate or even stand up during the church service.
Jesus tells us to "come out of her My people."
I agree that there is a world of difference between 'show' and 'substance', or between 'talking the talk' and 'walking the walk' John - and this includes praying (which should be in private).
Matthew 6:6 (KJV):
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
I understand that only twice did Jesus pray in the open - once so his disciples could understand that Jesus was always in prayer and communication with His Father, and the other time on the stake, while Jesus was suffering and in so much pain (when He Prayed several times to His Father, including when He Said 'My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken Me?'), and just before Jesus died (when Jesus said 'Father, into You Hands I commit My Spirit!' ):
John 11:41-44 (KJV):
41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
Mark 15:34 (KJV):
34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Luke 23:46 (KJV):
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
I lost my father over ten years ago, to cancer, as he smoked for 61 years, then he gave it up, and was then the calmest man around - and I used to nag him about giving up - and he told me he wished he never started smoking - which he did when he was 15.
He is now at rest, and does not need to deal with all the pressures he had from life - and I kept saying to people, we will all see him again later.
One of my brothers in law came over to me and said to me, I was relieved when you said that no one is lost forever, as I was worried about my dad - and when you said that, all this pressure left me, as if this massive weight was lifted off of my shoulders.
I still miss my father, John, very much - we used to discuss life and things all the time, and others thought that we were fighting, but we were not - and he could say anything to me without upsetting me, and I could say anything to him also - and we trusted each other.
I am sure you will all miss your mother John; but we are all in His Hands, regarding our time here on Earth - and we will all see each other again, later on.
May He comfort you all at this time; and shower you all, with His Blessings.
Warmest Regards.
George
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My heart breaks for you JFK. Peace and comfort for you and your family.
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Hello,
I do it sometimes with Music. Music to me has a Universal Language.
From time to time I will give someone a CD which i have recorded with some appropriate songs.
But I only do this after i have gotten to know them and they have gotten to know me.
Also I am a ten pin bowler. In this sport i have travelled extensively. And by this I have witnessed not so much by Word but by deeds.
To witness, to me, you must have common ground so that you can 'Relate' in the first place.
No body that I know has ever come to 'The Lord' in my time in this sport.
But I have been a 'Light' in 'Dark Places'. Whether this has affected anybody in this time the Lord 'Only' Knows.
Like JFK said its not my job to 'Save' people. This is the Lord's job and Him alone.
But it is my job to be a 'Light' where ever I go.
What does it take to be this 'Light'. Only you can know and if you don't, Search it out and 'BE IT'.
Love To You All, Regards Geoff.
Excellent reminder Geoff, and one I need to keep in my mind always. Reminds me of one of my all time favorite quotes from Ray.
https://bible-truths.com/souls.htm (https://bible-truths.com/souls.htm)
WINNING SOULS FOR JESUS?
[Two Billion Strong and Counting…?]
LIGHT AND SALT DON’T ARGUE OR MAKE NOISE
"Ye are the salt of the earth… Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid… Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:1,14,16). Salt does not make any noise, and light does not argue Scriptures. Neither salt nor light makes any sound whatsoever. Maybe there is a lesson in there.
Too many people learn a few truths of God and think that they are ready to take on the world. They usually start by trying to embarrass their Pastor with their new-gained knowledge. Usually they fall flat on their face on the very first try. It’s all about motivation. If your motivation is carnal, God will not back you. Yes, I know, all of you are saying: "But my motivation is to show them God’s truths." Yes, sure, I understand, but THEY DON’T WANT TO HEAR GOD’S TRUTHS, and you already know this, so what is your point? Leave them alone and let them taste your salt and see your light and admire your good works, and perchance they will even praise God for your new-found humility.
You will never argue anyone into accepting the truths of God’s Word. As salesmen are often taught: "You might win the argument, but loose the sale," so don’t argue. And this: "He who is persuaded against his will; is of the same opinion still."
I receive a lot of emails from people who beg me to come to their rescue because they are about to have a second session with their pastor or friend, but have failed miserably on the first go-round. Now they want me to give them the ammunition they need to do a slam-dunk on their second attempt to embarrass their pastor or friend. Give it up—that attitude is wrong. Such a carnal exhibition of prideful flesh is akin to someone looking for a street fight merely because he has just acquired a black belt in karate.
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Flanagan, you really don't have to and like others have said it's pretty pointless; I talk from experience.
I was aware of this idea of "salt and light don't argue or make any noise" early on, but I guess I had to learn the hard way in realizing no one wants to hear it and I was only doing it out of hate or pride thinking I was doing it for what ever legit reason I thought I had. Not saying it's the same case for you, just relaying my own experience and to give you a heads up for potential pitfalls.
Certainly tell em if they ask, but understand they still might not get it seeing how "many are called, but FEW (a puny amount) are chosen" as others have already said.
There's truly no better place then here at bible truths to share what you've learned. ;)
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May the great Comforter comfort you JFK.
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We are told to give an answer to those who ask us....
That is the way that I look at it as well. If the 'Christian' religions of the world would learn and practice this they probably wouldn't be as onerous and despised as they are. They are not despised because they stand for truth but they are despised because they barge in and invade people's personal space because they are trying to 'save' them. And you can't really blame them as we were all in that mind set at one time. When you are taught that if people don't get saved and confess Christ before they die then of course the church members are going to go after their loved ones like a dog going after a bone. People are desperate to get their family members to say the sinners prayer or go up to an altar call, ect. And their loved ones pretty much dread spending time with them because they know they are going to get harangued. And it's the same way with the various off shoot denominations that feel they have to go door to door and witness such as the JW's and Mormon's, ect.
When we understand that God has a time table for each and every one of us and only few are being chosen in this age then that takes the pressure off of us. We can save nobody, and if someone asks us a question then it's God opening a door for us. I'm on various Internet forums and what I use for a signature is a question about what the lake of fire is and is their anyway to escape this lake and then I leave a link to the very first teaching of the Lake of Fire series. I've used that signature all over for several years now and God uses that to lead people to the teachings as he wills it to occur. The first time I found this website was because of Ray's teaching on tithing and as much as I wanted to argue with Ray his teaching bookended it and his scriptures proved it. And then a few months later I was bored and found myself back here and I began to read the Lake of Fire series and the rest is history.
Everything is on God's timetable and not mine and he'll get us all where we need to be when we need to be there. If we try to force things by witnessing when we are not asked we might feel relief if we are still under the delusion that this is required behavior for us in pleasing God but it's not going to do anything for the people you witness to unless it's God's time for it to occur and if it's God's time for them then they will ask you a question and then that opens the door for you. IMO of course.
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Arion -
Very well presented. Thank you.
We are told to give an answer to those who ask us....
That is the way that I look at it as well. If the 'Christian' religions of the world would learn and practice this they probably wouldn't be as onerous and despised as they are. They are not despised because they stand for truth but they are despised because they barge in and invade people's personal space because they are trying to 'save' them. And you can't really blame them as we were all in that mind set at one time. When you are taught that if people don't get saved and confess Christ before they die then of course the church members are going to go after their loved ones like a dog going after a bone. People are desperate to get their family members to say the sinners prayer or go up to an altar call, ect. And their loved ones pretty much dread spending time with them because they know they are going to get harangued. And it's the same way with the various off shoot denominations that feel they have to go door to door and witness such as the JW's and Mormon's, ect.
When we understand that God has a time table for each and every one of us and only few are being chosen in this age then that takes the pressure off of us. We can save nobody, and if someone asks us a question then it's God opening a door for us. I'm on various Internet forums and what I use for a signature is a question about what the lake of fire is and is their anyway to escape this lake and then I leave a link to the very first teaching of the Lake of Fire series. I've used that signature all over for several years now and God uses that to lead people to the teachings as he wills it to occur. The first time I found this website was because of Ray's teaching on tithing and as much as I wanted to argue with Ray his teaching bookended it and his scriptures proved it. And then a few months later I was bored and found myself back here and I began to read the Lake of Fire series and the rest is history.
Everything is on God's timetable and not mine and he'll get us all where we need to be when we need to be there. If we try to force things by witnessing when we are not asked we might feel relief if we are still under the delusion that this is required behavior for us in pleasing God but it's not going to do anything for the people you witness to unless it's God's time for it to occur and if it's God's time for them then they will ask you a question and then that opens the door for you. IMO of course.
Warmest Regards.
George
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My sincere condolences John.
This post inspired me to think of all our loved ones who have gone before us and how Blessed we are to have a Father who would give us the knowledge that we will all see each other again. Our sons first child died two years ago, we were devastated. I told my son that God has a reason for everything and he got really angry with me. My son says he's atheist, but he said he blamed God.
How can he blame God if he doesn't believe in Him. I found a little hope in that remark.
I still cannot mention anything about God to my son Matthew,but I daydream of the day, to see the look in my sons eyes when the Lord appears before him holding the hand of our little Ayla and says" Here is your daughter Matthew" So Great is Our God. Love and peace to all🙏🏼 Pamela
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There are two points I would like to make. Firstly, what is bibletruths.com but a wittness to the Truth? How many hours upon hours did Ray spend answering e mails from those who call themselves christian ? How much time and effort is still put forth to teach those who have ears to hear? I had my doubts about many doctrines before I got here but I only knew about God as a trinity, free will and hell before I read the words here. Is that not wittnessing? Why can Ray and Dennis and the others do it and not us?
Secondly, Matthew 5 says as repeated here to Let your light shine before men so they will glorify God. So, what are you doing to bring Glory to God so people notice? Not my words - words from the new testament . Light illuminates ! Salt preserves! Is that quiet? Maybe some are loud with words and some loud with actions . Either way- God is to be glorified.
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There are two points I would like to make. Firstly, what is bibletruths.com but a wittness to the Truth? How many hours upon hours did Ray spend answering e mails from those who call themselves christian ? How much time and effort is still put forth to teach those who have ears to hear? I had my doubts about many doctrines before I got here but I only knew about God as a trinity, free will and hell before I read the words here. Is that not wittnessing? Why can Ray and Dennis and the others do it and not us?
Secondly, Matthew 5 says as repeated here to Let your light shine before men so they will glorify God. So, what are you doing to bring Glory to God so people notice? Not my words - words from the new testament . Light illuminates ! Salt preserves! Is that quiet? Maybe some are loud with words and some loud with actions . Either way- God is to be glorified.
It looks like you've partially answered your own question with "some are loud with words and some loud with actions". We are all different parts of the body of Christ with different functions I think. Some are silent, but yet they too are witnesses shining bright and glorifying God. God can make a witness out of a rock if He wanted to. ;D
I don't know about the "others" you mentioned, but I found where Ray explained a bit as to why he did what he did.
https://bible-truths.com/souls.htm (https://bible-truths.com/souls.htm)
I'm asked why I teach the Truths of God if "All is of God," and God does all the choosing and drawing? Because that is HOW God operates. God uses the foolishness of preaching as one of His means by which He communicates with His Elect:
"Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Has not God made foolish [Gk: ‘stupid’] the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe" (I Cor. 1:20-21).
And it is God who grants us faith as His gift (Eph. 2: 8) , to believe this "foolish preaching" of God’s true servants of the Gospel.
Certainly we should all follow Peter’s admonition to:
"…be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear [reverence]" (I Pet. 3:15).But God has not called all to be teachers:
"Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers" (I Cor. 12:29, Concordant Literal N.T.).
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Hello Porter,
Thank you for showing us what Ray has taught on this to us.
It is a good reminder of how we should respond to the Lord's Command to be 'Salt And Light'.
Love to You and Yours. May the Peace of God Guide your Heart. Regards, Geoff.
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Thanks Brothers and Sisters. I appreciate all your input and will consider it closely as I move ahead. God's Grace to you all.
L Ray Smith " It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that."
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Hi Flanagan
Everyone keeps saying that it's not our job to save and only God saves.... I think you, Flanagan, are already aware of that and that isn't your intention anyways, is that correct?
If I perceive your question accurately you are trying to plant seeds and or water seeds that have already been planted. The actual 'growing', of course, is Gods to perform.
1 Cor 3
6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.
Good for you Flanagan. Don't be discouraged by those who tell you it's a waste of time. As I believe I read or heard Ray point out that there is no wasted movement in Gods plan. Not one atom will move or exist apart from His perfect plan. Be encouraged to do what the Lord has put in your heart/mind to do. At the end of the day you have to answer to your creator, not man.
We are different parts of one body. Perhaps a 'hand' tried to be a 'mouth' a few times and found it to be a failure. Should that 'hand' then preach to the rest that it's a waste of time for anyone else to speak?
From my experience in "church" people believe in Christian doctrine because there has been no one to challenge it. People (again, in my experience) are hungry and dying for truth. They believe what they've been taught to believe because that's the only doctrine they've been presented with.
I think there's a carnal inclination we have as humans to not want to share the treasure we have. Our flesh feels 'special' being part of a small inside group who knows the 'secret' treasure. We must test ourselves and our motives. Do we hide this treasure because we want to be the only ones with this special blessing? Should we freely give it away as we have freely received? Or should we not cast our pearls to swine? Perhaps we've taken it upon ourselves to label anyone outside of this little group as swine?
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Hi Largeli,
That was one of the big reliefs I learned after studying Ray's writings. Along with other things like Universal Salvation.
Know the truth and it will set you free.
Especially after having fallen from my first love (JWs) 10 years ago.
I should have explained myself a little better when I open this topic. But all's well that ends well huh Brother ;)
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Hi Flanagan-
I'm an ex door knocker myself :-\
The only time I felt compelled to share spiritual matters, was in those early days, when I was on fire (pun intended) about there being no burning hell. I lost my zeal rather quickly because I couldn't feel the holy spirit of God...I was doomed.
Going to all those meetings and knocking on all those doors became hell on earth for me, because I believed, as I was taught, most of human kind was going to die at the hands of this god and I was being held personally accountable, to save my fair share.
Coming to an accurate knowledge of who God is and what he is doing for all mankind, lifted all of that burden from me and blessed me beyond measure.
Now, unless I am moved by his holy spirit to do so, I don't share anything I know.
Wanda
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I'd like to add two things...
1- Those times when he moves me to plant those seeds of his love are humbling for me, because I am a carnal wothless nobody he is using for his glory. It is then I feel his love most.
2) I'm never afraid or unsure to speak at those times because I know God is guiding me, using my strengths rather than my weaknesses for his good. I believe he works through all of us like that.
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Thanks for your comment Wanda, I agree to an extent. But at the same time I try to make myself available incase God's spirit needs something. :) God's Grace to you my Sister.
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God's Spirit does not need anything. Especially from us who are dust.
Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the LORD Almighty. Zechariah 4:6
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When the time arises you will be used.
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John -
I do not understand your point:
God's Spirit does not need anything. Especially from us who are dust.
Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the LORD Almighty. Zechariah 4:6
When He changes someone, and the best example I can think of is Saul who became Paul, would those who knew Saul / Paul, not have immediately noticed that he was now totally different?; and is it not unreasonable to assume that some may well have asked Saul / Paul, something like 'what happened to you, man - I mean I hardly recognised you. You now sound like those who you were persecuting'?
His Elect may not be a heavyweight like Paul - but once His Elect know 'His Truths' and 'He changes them (like He did Saul / Paul), do not His Elect live very different lives, and people not notice the changes in their lives?
Offcourse God does not need anything from us, as He has, and is everything - however, has He not Commanded His Elect to be 'Living Witnesses'?: and although this is more about 'walking the walk', does it not also include, at times, speaking and saying what His Elect believe, and why they believe it?
I agree that His Elect are not Commanded to seek to save others in this Age of Grace, as He alone is 'The Saviour' - but are His Elect not planting seeds at the Direction of 'His Holy Spirit', here and there?
Is Jesus not His Father's Representative and Spokesman to Mankind, and are not His Elect 'The Body of Christ' Spiritually?; and is Jesus not currently doing His Father's Good Works in this present Age through His Elect, who are 'His Body', where 'His Holy Spirit dwells'?
Are there not Scriptures that confirm that in the next Age, His Elect will be 'Saviours' together with 'The Saviour, Jesus Christ Himself'?; and are not His Elect not now being, both chastened (cleansed), and also being trained to become 'Saviours' in the next Age?
Are not His Elect not Commanded to 'let their Light shine' and not hide it?
There is a big difference between doing what Christian Orthodoxy does, and what His Elect are Commanded to do - and are not His Elect to be a 'peculiar people', who by definition must stand out like a sour thumb? And as His Elect stand out, are some not likely to be curious, and ask why His Elect are so different from those in the world?
John, I have probably misunderstood what you were pointing out.
Warmest Regards.
George
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Sometimes we have to learn things the hard way.
Many if not most on this forum have tried to 'enlighten' our friends in the past with bad results.
So Wanda, perhaps you should try it and see what happens?
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Well Dennis, not sure if that was a warning or encouragement. :)
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Hi George,
I read what you wrote and it makes my head spin. Those are not my thoughts. I'll just let what I wrote stand by itself.
Jesus did not save one person in his lifetime as a human being, not one. If Jesus could not save anyone then how can I or any other man save or witness to another and save them? It is all carnal religious foolishness to think otherwise.
But like Dennis said, people must learn the hard way, by experience. The Tree of knowledge of good and evil is a hard taskmaster. Enjoy the lesson.
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Well Dennis, not sure if that was a warning or encouragement. :)
I'm saying every time I have tried people get resentful. In my experience you will run your friends off. They are almost certainly blind (small chance they are not) and there is nothing you can do or say to get them to get it. Good luck :)
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Okay...I think you misunderstood me. I also posted on page
(1) that is how I deal with witnessing to others. My second post was about those rare occasions when I'm being used by God in Suttle ways.
Seriously, as an ex JW...well, my first post explains.
Now a question please. Am I to understand, that We are never used by God for his good works?
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I shared my hard lesson learned not too long ago. I suppose the carnal flesh got the best of me at the time and I decided to take up a christian to task. Our conversation was going well, and I even had her believe the lake of fire was not permanent, but all that for her to joyously declare, "So God is going to annihilate those thrown into the lake!" She even thanked me for making her finally see that...My head sunk in great despair and sadness for her, that my exposition and instruction had led her to that conclusion despite all my efforts to show her the contrary. That she could think such things of God and be happy about it. That anyone could ascribe such horrific acts to the Great God and Saviour. I thought I was making progress... boy was I wrong. So very wrong.
It was a good reminder and lesson for me. The beast is still here and rearing his ugly head when he can. Certainly a source of frustration in my life.
God bless,
Alex
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Ray made the statement that "Hell hath no fury like a Christian just shown the Truth."
I agree with that, and it has been proved to me in my own experiences.
The times that have been productive are always when someone asked me something they were wanting to know themselves.
The way I see it; if God tells YOU to do a thing, do it with all your might, no matter what the outcome is.
The scriptures are full of those that God told to do a certain thing, and they started looking for the back door immediately. I have been guilty of doing that myself.
Joel
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Hi friend Wanda,
We, provided we are among the elect, are to be used in a mighty way once we are changed to spirit composition and are led personally by the living Christ when HE is changing the world. That time is yet future!
Naturally we all become anxious to get started right away and are impatient to have some results, some success in our efforts to do God's work and be appreciated or to help our family or friends who are missing out on this wonderful gift.
For the present we are in training. We ourselves, with all we have learned, are not yet ready to teach anyone who is not among the called and chosen. We do not yet have the power or the authority to decide or to judge whether any other person is ready.
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So for now and until the end of our physical lives we are to learn to trust God and be very patient and obedient and to focus on "overcoming". We are not, in my view, at this time called to do a work for God. We are students, babes in Christ and not teachers.
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Even Ray Smith was a serious and humble student simply sharing what he had been given and was not often able to determine whether another person who wrote to him was actually ready to learn the deeper things of God. All Ray could do was to gently place the information before the audience and let God provide the growth, IF any.
Please relax your desire to please God right away. God will give you the signal when it is the right time and that will most likely be AFTER you have been changed and have met and conversed with our Savior the Lord Jesus. So for now it may be more valuable to prepare yourself by study and prayer and careful self examination such as we all do when we participate on the forum.
Offered in love, ole Indiana Bob
Okay...I think you misunderstood me. I also posted on page
(1) that is how I deal with witnessing to others. My second post was about those rare occasions when I'm being used by God in Suttle ways.
Seriously, as an ex JW...well, my first post explains.
Now a question please. Am I to understand, that We are never used by God for his good works?
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Okay...I think you misunderstood me. I also posted on page
(1) that is how I deal with witnessing to others. My second post was about those rare occasions when I'm being used by God in Suttle ways.
Seriously, as an ex JW...well, my first post explains.
Now a question please. Am I to understand, that We are never used by God for his good works?
You coming to this forum and sharing your journey and others learning from it and each other is a good work.
I think most of us were anxious to spread the good news when we first learned these truths, but to no avail. I suspect you had the same feelings when you first became a JW?
Become a good example and others will see your light. Then perhaps they will come to you. Then you witness when asked.
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Hello All,
"Become a good example and others will see your light. Then perhaps they will come to you. Then you witness when asked." Quote from Dennis.
That Says it all to me, Regards Geoff.
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We, provided we are among the elect, are to be used in a mighty way once we are changed to spirit composition and are led personally by the living Christ when HE is changing the world. That time is yet future!
Naturally we all become anxious to get started right away and are impatient to have some results, some success in our efforts to do God's work and be appreciated or to help our family or friends who are missing out on this wonderful gift.
I had never really considered that before Bob at least not in the way you put it. Thank you! Like many of us I want to be used of God and even though I'm getting older it's like 'When can I make a difference in this world God?' A bit of a revelation that it might not occur in this lifetime in the flesh.
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Well said I. Bob, thank you
Jingle
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My comments were about those times when people have asked me. Many of those times I was to stressed to even study, much less share God's truths, but none the less there I was. Was that God's will? Only he knows.
Looking behind me, I can clearly see, my eyes were not opened to his truths until he willed it. It was just me God and my laptop. It was the same when I left my first love. He willed it ALL!
Dragged? It felt more like being catapulted to me. Later he brought me to my knees so that I could be humble enough to rely on him. I've had many trust issues. :)
I belive it is God's will that I walk humbly with him...
Mich 6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God...Seems pretty clear to me.
A sripture that speaks to my heart...John 14:27
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you: Not as the world givith, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
That peace didn't come to me until I not only understood God's sovereignty, but belived it wholeheartedly. How else could you ever get the kind of peace Jesus gives?
Great comments everyone, and thanks for the fellowship.
Wanda
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sometimes I feel like I want to tell someone the truth about God and the gospel, not to 'save' them, but so I can have someone to talk to. So I can have a friend.
If I 'witness' to someone it's not to 'save' them but perhaps it's a selfish desire on my part to just have one person I can look in the eyes and know that they understand what we all here understand. I mean your beliefs in God and who and what He is and what His plan for humanity is, determines your entire world view. I don't witness to people though because I've found it just depresses me... it reminds me of how alone I am.
On a less selfish side though. We here have been chosen to know the things we know and it has freed us. I thought God was good when I was churched.. but now I know that I did not even know good from evil! God is better than any church teaches and sometimes I just want to give someone the truth so that they can share in my joy. If it's not their time then they won't believe. But if it is their time than someone has to sow the seed and someone has to water right?
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Hello All,
Largeli I know how you feel. This path is lonely for me too. All my family are in Victoria, which is almost 2000 Kilometres South away. We don't communicate because they are too busy with babies being born or making lots of money. (See that how you want). The latter I Don't want anything to do with.
I do have, however, the best friend any one could want, but he lives almost 2000 Kilometres North away. We communicate often, we are like minded, there are no Schisms between us.
But physically i am totally alone, with one exception: I have a friend in Jesus who always directs my path and guides me wherever I go. I have suffered much: But in this I have learned to be Obedient and to totally Trust him in what ever happens. Believe me: I am not being Patronising.
In essence I have learned to just Rest in Him. I will pray for you that you may gain a like minded friend: However that comes.
Here is a Scripture for you: Php 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. (There 'might' be a better translation.)
It happens to be my Creed. (See Below).
Here is a link too (I Believe), Something Special. (The Church sometimes get it right): https://youtu.be/f4HeIXYqaSs
Love to you and yours. Regards, Geoff.
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Hi John,
You Said and I quote: If Jesus could not save anyone.........
This is not True. While he was on the Earth, he saved his Disciples. At pentecost 120 Followers of his were given his 'Spirit"
In other words they had the Seal of Salvation assurance.
When you say "Jesus could not save anyone.........": no matter how it is intended, you are confusing 'Babes' in Christ.
Just because you didn't see Jesus save the way you see it does not mean he didn't.
The Twelve 'Disciples' are His very 'Elect' and they 'Are" Saved (Past Tense Intended). Jesus did 'Save' while he was on this Earth.
And please 'Note': They did not say any 7 second prayer.
This is not meant to be nasty, but to try and explain things in a correct way. We are all trying to seek the truth.
I know Ray has spoken at length on this. I don't know where. Peace to you. Geoff.
P.S. Great Scripture by the way: Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the Lord Almighty. Zechariah 4:6
This same 'Spirit' dwells within us: When we witness as we are told to do, who's at work: The 'Lord's Spirit' in us of course.
The 'Spirit' within us 'Causes' us to witness in many ways. You are in no way 'Carnal' in however way you do it, because it is the 'Will' of 'The Lord'. It is his 'Command'.
Some 'Methods' might be 'Carnal' in Nature, but they 'All' work together to bring about the very 'Plan Of God'. If you need 'Scriptural Proof', just ask me. See Ya.
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Hi John,
You Said and I quote: If Jesus could not save anyone.........
This is not True. While he was on the Earth, he saved his Disciples. At pentecost 120 Followers of his were given his 'Spirit"
In other words they had the Seal of Salvation assurance.
When you say "Jesus could not save anyone.........": no matter how it is intended, you are confusing 'Babes' in Christ.
Just because you didn't see Jesus save the way you see it does not mean he didn't.
The Twelve 'Disciples' are His very 'Elect' and they 'Are" Saved (Past Tense Intended). Jesus did 'Save' while he was on this Earth.
And please 'Note': They did not say any 7 second prayer.
This is not meant to be nasty, but to try and explain things in a correct way. We are all trying to seek the truth.
I know Ray has spoken at length on this. I don't know where. Peace to you. Geoff.
P.S. Great Scripture by the way: Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the Lord Almighty. Zechariah 4:6
This same 'Spirit' dwells within us: When we witness as we are told to do, who's at work: The 'Lord's Spirit' in us of course.
Hi Geoff,
You need to read carefully. I said while Jesus was a human He did not save anyone, which is a true statement if you read and study the Scriptures with care. Jesus had already been resurrected and ascended to heaven on the Day of Pentecost. For what it is worth, Ray said the same thing.
John
P.S. Be careful of accusing someone of speaking falsely, especially in the off chance that person could be speaking by the Spirit of God. You could bring judgment on yourself.
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Hi John,
I know that's how you intended it, but it can be construed the wrong way by those who have less knowledge.
Believe me, just trying to be helpful.
Also it's something I won't argue with. See Ya John.
P.S. This is the Quote: "If Jesus could not save anyone.........":- You said this in your last Post: "I said while Jesus was a human He did not save anyone". You are Deceiving us. You might have meant this but you didn't say it that way in your previous post.
I have already been 'Judged' by the way. Have a good day.
P.S. It was confusing, not to me, but to others that might be reading. To say both those things in the same post can be misleading to some. I 'Quoted' you correctly. Whether Jesus saved on this Earth or not, it is minuscule argument and not worth the time. Bye.
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No one is saved until they are saved. All the dead are still dead except Jesus.
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Hi John,
I know that's how you intended it, but it can be construed the wrong way by those who have less knowledge.
Believe me, just trying to be helpful.
Also it's something I won't argue with. See Ya John.
P.S. This is the Quote: "If Jesus could not save anyone.........":- You said this in your last Post: "I said while Jesus was a human He did not save anyone". You are Deceiving us. You might have meant this but you didn't say it that way in your previous post.
I have already been 'Judged' by the way. Have a good day.
P.S. It was confusing, not to me, but to others that might be reading. To say both those things in the same post can be misleading to some. I 'Quoted' you correctly. Whether Jesus saved on this Earth or not, it is minuscule argument and not worth the time. Bye.
I am glad you decided not to argue.
Ray said the same thing I did, namely that Jesus did not save one person while He was a human on the earth. For those with enough initiative, they can find Ray's statement. Better yet they can study that point from the Scriptures themselves if they want.
And no, you have not been judged yet. The Scriptures tell us that judgment is currently upon the House of God. We are all still a work in process in God's hands, that is for those few who are being judged in this age.
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Hi John,
Unfortunately relating on this Forum is very hard to do. When people read the Words about some ones Experience in life they cannot hope to know the kind of suffering that that caused them. When someone else has the same Experience the suffering can be little bit different but can empathise with that person in some way. No body truly knows deep down how some one has suffered. Only the Lord himself knows.
In saying that, you don't know me and i don't know you, so how can we Judge one another in the first place. Sometimes words can be misleading and sometimes when we put on paper the words needed to convey a certain point, can be misconstrued because what was meant sometimes when read can be confusing to some. We all do it. The only way to truly get to know any body is face to face and taking time to relate on common ground. Did not Paul say that he was 'all things to all people' so that through the common grounds of relating, they may be saved on that 'Day'.
So I apologise if I sounded rude, it was not intended, the statement that Jesus did not 'Save' while he was on this earth as a human is something that I have a different 'Slant' on and is something that is very hard to explain. But I won't because this is not allowed on this Forum. There it ends.
On the Question of Judgement, again I have a very different 'Slant' on that as well and again on this Forum it is not allowed. There it ends.
On the Question of Witnessing, Jesus said 'YOU ARE MY WITNESSES", of what, His LIFE, DEATH and RESURRECTION. This is what gives us HOPE.
This was said to his Disciples back then but is also relevant to us today because this Statement that the Lord "Is, was, and will be", tells us that. When someone asks us about this 'HOPE' because of the example of 'GODLY LOVE' which you conveyed to them. Then you must give 'Answer Too'. This is 'Holy Spirit' Time. Be READY.
I will Leave it at that. I have nothing more to say on these Subjects. Kindest Regards to you. Love to you and yours, Geoff. Bye.
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Here's the statement:
Jesus Christ never converted a person in His whole ministry. It’s just amazing. If you said that in a church they’d be throwing rotten tomatoes at you. But in His whole ministry Jesus Christ never converted one person! Not one!
The 11 second sinner’s prayer… they have not a clue what they are talking about!!
When came around Pentecost time though, a whole bunch of them were converted, about 120 of them. But Christ was leading them up to that. He’s probably leading some of us up to that.
I wouldn't bother to quibble, but SALVATION is a word with a meaning, and CONVERSION is a word with a meaning. They are not the same thing, even if preachers sometimes talk like they are. So please don't say that Jesus never "saved" anybody in His earthly ministry unless you explain what He never saved anybody FROM. He saved multitudes from sickness, demons, hunger, and forgave many sins.
He did NOT however, spiritually convert anybody in His earthly ministry. When it was ended, they were still "carnal". Healthier? Free from demons? Some raised from the dead, even? Full of experience? Sure...but not yet converted.
There is much we can do in ministry to others, but we cannot convert anybody spiritually. Not even our own children. Not even our own selves.
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There is much one can argue about, I suppose, but I'm thinking that it would be rather obtuse to believe that when we speak of being "saved," without qualifiers, that we are speaking of something else other than the process of salvation and its inevitable conclusion.
God bless,
Alex
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Maybe we can all agree that Jesus, our beloved God and King, will judge, convert, and save everyone.
As the Scripture says, "for all will know Me from the least to the greatest."
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Meanwhile John if I want to give a witness or two that's what I'll do. You can do what you're going to do. I must admit I'm a little set back by your hostility bordering on rudeness. I can get all that I need from unbelievers, but Jesus said you'd recognise his real followers from their intense love for one another. Maybe just tone it down a little John, you're not John Wayne. We really don't know each other well enough to jump to conclusions. Peace Brother
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Hi Flanagan,
RIGHT ON BROTHER. Peace to you. Love Geoff.
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This criticizing other members publicly is going to stop. If you have a problem with a member PM them.
This is the time of the year when I spend other people's money on Google advertising. I do not want new people coming to this forum and seeing this petty nonsense.
Trust me, I have a ban button and I will use it.
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Geoff, it seems both these topics of being saved on past tense or that judgement is NOW on the house of God were explained scripturally by Ray, I'm not sure what the debate is
Mike
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My Apologies Dennis and Brothers and Sisters.