bible-truths.com/forums

=> General Discussions => Topic started by: hillsbororiver on January 20, 2007, 10:04:57 AM

Title: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: hillsbororiver on January 20, 2007, 10:04:57 AM
This is such a relevant topic to so many here (and scattered all over the world) that I thought it might be a good idea to post Ray's response in General Discussions so we could discuss it. This journey He has called us into is one of trial and tribulation, sometimes it can seem to be a bit too much and we even wish we could just go back to being "normal" once again. But the Lord will have none of that and keeps pulling us closer to Him through this refining fire.

He is never far from my mind and just about every situation I confront I seek what lesson He has planned for me through this (and any) experience, when I fail I usually recognize it very soon if not immediately and I am humbled once again, my flawed, weak and carnal nature exposed to His Light once more, my desperate need for His Guiding Spirit underlined in big bold type.

You know this is funny if not psychotic, the other day I woke up in a particularly jovial and happy mood thinking about the rather successful previous day at work and looking forward to some other (temporal) things on the horizon when it occurred to me that "wait a minute, I don't feel the scourging, the intense Light that is exposing my flesh seems to be switched off presently," get this, I actually became concerned that He had left me and was done with calling or choosing me for His Kingdom, that I had been left to ride the waves of the sea without Him. My joy (in these worldly things) was tempered immediately, the feeling of chastising began again and I more than welcomed it. I know this would sound like the ramblings of a lunatic to those who have not been blessed by His calling/choosing.

His Peace and Wisdom to you all,

Joe

 Hi Ray,
    My name is Randy. I have no clue what to believe anymore. I'm really trying to find the truth and I've hit so many trees it isn't funny. everytime I think I have the right understanding then pow theres another tree. why is it so hard to find the truth? I was a JW and tithes weren't taken then I found the Living church of God and not many if any followed what they were supposed too, well most thiings like the sabbath and such being on saturday. I would think God would help me out on this. I'm just really tired and confused.
     
     I have so many different things taught in my head its hard to even think right anymore. I just don't what to say or think anymore. I think if you are true of God then maybe a prayer would help. I really don't know. everything about things I thought I knew was different in your web page I don't even trust my own understanding any longer. I'm going to try and read the web pages again. Also what about gathering together as a commandment? I'm just not sure anymore.
     
    I really don't think I'll get a reply because of the e-mails you get already but I'm just sooo confused.
     
    I've read books on America and Great Britin in the worlds stage today and they made since to me but is that wrong also?  I just don't know what to think anymore and really don't think I have the courage to carry on. How can it be so hard to find God?
    I hope he hears me and answers.
    I won't take anymore of you time
    Thanks
    Randy


    Dear Randy:

    You sound a little bit like every other person who has been forced to come out of Babylon. Maybe we should change our name from "Bible-Truths" to "The Last Resort Religion." Or how about this: "The First Church of Dropouts for Jesus"?

    You wonder why it is so hard to find God?  Well, for one thing, you have been "looking for love in all the wrong places."  You went from the JW's to the Living Church of God. I'm surprised you weren't a member of the Worldwide Church of God--many of us have been, you know? Here's a spiritual truth that might help you: "Howbeit the Most High dwells NOT in temples made with hands" (Acts 7:48).  That will eliminate a lot of looking right there--stay away from church buildings, synagogues, and temples--that's where Satan dwells (Rev. 2:13).

    We're not any different on the outside than the JW's or the Church of God. I'm just a normal guy.  When I walk down the street people don't point and laugh, women don't lust, children don't run, and dogs don't bit me. But inside, I think that we are a good bit different from most. And I think that is maybe what you are really looking for--that difference on the inside. As Dirty Harry once said: "A man (or a woman) has got to know his limitations."  Once God has shown you your limitations, He will find you--you won't have to go looking for Him. Randy, listen to me:  God isn't lost: you don't have to try and find Him.  YOU are the lost one, but God knows where you are.  Don't worry about the "right religion" or the "right doctrines."  If God wants you to read the material on our site, you will  read it--you won't be able to not read the material on our site.  And as you read you will begin to see and under stand things that you never saw or understood before.

    Read my paper at the top of our home page: "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU FOOLS!"  If it makes sense and you understand it, go to the next one, and the next one....  If they don't make good sense to you, you can always turn to another web site.  There are a couple of hundred million of them dealing with religion and doctrine.  Don't look up "hell," however, because although there are nearly ten millions sites under hell, bible-truths.com is the first one, and you'll be right back with us again.

    God be with you,

    Ray

P.S. I really love this answer and all the ground it covers in so few words.(Joe)


     
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 20, 2007, 10:38:28 AM
Hello Joe

That e-mail really deserves a second look as do ALL of Ray's responses. They never stop teaching and being a good example to me. I love them!

What I have noticed happening within me is that my emotions are set as internal territory that is training me. I am beginning to see that my emotions, some that I feel come from me (ignorance at work here) and some that I feel are coming from outside my control (double ignorance here :D) are actually being caused all the time by God and are under His supervision and plan. This experience of new awareness is wonderful because it draws me into the quiet spot that I believe is occupied by Christ within me whenever emotions occur that I want to throw off! :D

I am doubly thankful to Jesus and God for teaching me the wonders of His ways and through the gentleness of His methods and handling of me.

I enjoyed your disclosure of what and how He is dealing with you. Thank you for sharing. :)

Peace in fellowship

Arcturus :)
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: rocky on January 20, 2007, 10:49:57 AM
Something I've been thinking about is what is the suffering we are to experience to enter the kingdom of God? 

No one in this world is free from suffering.  Wounds run deep, for followers of Christ and non followers of Christ. 

I'm thinking the suffering is different for Christians, and the result is different.  One leads to worldly sorrow, and one leads to Godly sorrow. 

2Co 7:10  For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

there's a verse somewhere that talks about suffering for doing good or suffering for doing bad, (can't find it at the moment)

Just wondering if any have some examples of the differences, or insight.   

Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: Patrick on January 20, 2007, 10:51:34 AM
Joe, after I read that e-mail yesterday, something came to mind. I have heard so many people say that the Lord will never give you more than you can handle, and I believed I was the one who knew that limit (man's got to know his limitations). So many times I have gotten down on my knees and prayed "I can't take anymore" and it seems like the situation gets even worse.
I know now that God sets that limit, He is the potter and we are just the clay. He knows how much the clay can handle; the clay does not know (the clay thinks it knows but it really does not).
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: hillsbororiver on January 20, 2007, 11:53:53 AM
Something I've been thinking about is what is the suffering we are to experience to enter the kingdom of God? 

No one in this world is free from suffering.  Wounds run deep, for followers of Christ and non followers of Christ. 

I'm thinking the suffering is different for Christians, and the result is different.  One leads to worldly sorrow, and one leads to Godly sorrow. 

2Co 7:10  For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

there's a verse somewhere that talks about suffering for doing good or suffering for doing bad, (can't find it at the moment)

Just wondering if any have some examples of the differences, or insight.   



Hi Rocky,

I can give a short, personal response in regard to the difference between my own worldly suffering and Spiritual suffering. When I was oblivious to the Spirit and totally engrossed with day to day life in the world I would blame any setbacks or suffering on others, any time events did not go my way it was either someone else who screwed me or by their incompetence I had to overcome something that "never should have happened."

Now when things are not going the way I would desire or prefer I see it as part of the trials and tribulation I must endure to purge this carnal heart from it's inherent wickedness. Instead of looking outward for someone to blame I look inward and see how far I have yet to go.

There is comfort in knowing that God is in control and that He is creating His Sons and Daughters, as Patrick mentioned we are the clay and for a pot or vessel to be worth anything it must endure the kiln's fire.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe   
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: ciy on January 20, 2007, 11:54:46 AM
Patrick
Just a quick one, got to run.  As with most "old sayings"  that I loved most of my life, they are completely against the plan of God.  They drive our attention to the carnal instead of the spiritual. 

If God does not give one more than they themselves can handle then one cannot be broken.  You must be broken and ground into powder to be the new creation ready for the 1st resurrection.  The good news is that if you know this then count it all joy when God is chastening, judging, and gracing that old man out of you. 

CIY
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 20, 2007, 01:49:58 PM
Follow up from Randy to Ray ;D

Hi again Ray,
First of all   WOW!!!!
I am blown away. I've started reading with hope of understanding and I can't believe my eyes. Tithing is really not right. when Jesus had a fish bring up the taxes and such and no other Apostle asked for tithes. Some in the church say that selling the houses were also connected to tithes. and the tithe of tithes are to begiven to teh church durning the holy dasys to help pay for the building we used for gathering I really didn't know what it really ment I just followed along.

I am so greatful God is helping me on these scriptures that seem to make more sence then ever before. As my mind was conditioned to other scripture understanding I see the truth in what you've pointed out in the bible but I still have my old thinking saying "hey maybe this and what about that" such as gathering to gether not to forsake it so I still have alot of understand and wrong ideas what the bile says that I have to purge out of my thoughts and understanding.

I've found most who go to church are emty inside  and not really flowing with the spirit of God, but I've always dismissed it as something that I couldn't understand but it was ok.
I have never heard words like this before in so much proven ways.

I'm reading the lake of fire writings you have on your home page and lusifer and light bringer. I've always wondered why God in his perfection would make a creation that was perfect and later would go bad. In my eyes this would make God a incompatant creator. {spelling} but the fact satan was made to makes us become perfect in spirit {not 100% sure i have the understand all correct yet} instead of God being not all seeing and a failer in his creation.

As with the fact also that God would create people to later just destroy them show again he didn't know what he was doing we he made man seemed weird and not right but I didn't know what I've been reading in the last day.

Do you have other writtings not on the home page?
Also when the theif was on the cross by Jesus he wasn't baptizes in water when Jesus said he would be with him. I'm so awed and these new understanding and yes I was looking for something inside people and just never seen it in anyone before.I have to admit I am a little gun shy as it were because I thought I was right in my understanding before so I ask please have patenice with me.

I really hope the is more to read on your writting and believe it when I say I am no fan of reading I hate to read, but I'm looking foward to reading some more.

WOW WOW WOW
Randy

Looks like Randy would sure enjoy the Forum ;D
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: Martymonster on January 20, 2007, 07:58:30 PM
Wow that's cool!

I love to see people set free from the tyranny of Babylon!


Some times it is hard for me to know if I'm suffering because of my own sin or if I am being chastened and pruned (I really hope it's the latter) but one thing I am starting to realise is that I am starting to get to know myself a lot better through Him, and I realise there really is no good in me!

That's what these trials are for, to show us that there is nothing good in us except Christ!

It is disconcerting though when the beast rears his ugly head, for example I get angry! not towards people so much but inanimate objects mostly, if I trip over something and hurt myself, you don't want to be in ear shot of my potty mouth!

I actually want to be broken down, I don't want this beast to rule, He only brings tyranny and oppression, I don't want to be forced to worship him anymore!

Come on Lord,  lead me out of Egypt already!
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: rocky on January 20, 2007, 08:55:20 PM
Something I've been thinking about is what is the suffering we are to experience to enter the kingdom of God? 

No one in this world is free from suffering.  Wounds run deep, for followers of Christ and non followers of Christ. 

I'm thinking the suffering is different for Christians, and the result is different.  One leads to worldly sorrow, and one leads to Godly sorrow. 

2Co 7:10  For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

there's a verse somewhere that talks about suffering for doing good or suffering for doing bad, (can't find it at the moment)

Just wondering if any have some examples of the differences, or insight.   



Hi Rocky,

I can give a short, personal response in regard to the difference between my own worldly suffering and Spiritual suffering. When I was oblivious to the Spirit and totally engrossed with day to day life in the world I would blame any setbacks or suffering on others, any time events did not go my way it was either someone else who screwed me or by their incompetence I had to overcome something that "never should have happened."

Now when things are not going the way I would desire or prefer I see it as part of the trials and tribulation I must endure to purge this carnal heart from it's inherent wickedness. Instead of looking outward for someone to blame I look inward and see how far I have yet to go.

There is comfort in knowing that God is in control and that He is creating His Sons and Daughters, as Patrick mentioned we are the clay and for a pot or vessel to be worth anything it must endure the kiln's fire.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe   

I agree Joe, whether we look at trials through carnal eyes or spiritual eyes is the key.  But do you think that is what this verse is meaning?

1Pe 3:17  It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.




Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: Joey Porter on January 20, 2007, 10:29:52 PM
I find that most of the tribulations I go through are inward (though I've had my share of outward ones, to be sure).  But I'm talking about spiritual tribulations - wars between the flesh and spirit.  Feelings of inadequacy.  Wandering about in a spiritual funk.  Feeling no spiritual fire or excitement burning at all.

Romans 7
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!


I guess that's where true faith comes into play.  Seeing how weak I am yet believing that I will be delivered moreso day by day from the desires of the flesh.  I am sure that God wants us to feel no confidence about what we can do ourselves.  The hard part is still having faith even while we're seeing our wretchedness.

It's tough, because I think the natural human reaction, when we see our weaknesses, is to run from God, or to block out what we see in ourselves. Ignore it, pretend it's not there. Remember what Adam and Eve did in the garden when they saw their nakedness - they hid and tried to cover it.

I think that could be one of the things  that separates the ''called'' from the ''chosen.''  The ''chosen'' are brought to a point of facing their sinfulness face to face, and acknowledging it.  Not just the open sinfulness like debauchery and drunkennes.  That is the stuff that everyone sees, and of course, even many of the called repent of those things.

I'm talking about that deep, dark yucky stuff - hypocrisy, cowardliness, hatred for fellow man, etc.  All the things that only we ourselves can see in there.

Just like the pharisees, the ''called'' have an idea that there are some nasty things lurking on the inside of their dish, but they just block it out and go on doing good works for the Lord (making fig leaf coverings for themselves) and never go through the spiritual tribulations that help us to grow and conform to Christ's image. God brings the chosen to a point of cleaning the inside of that dish.

So many people expect that "Great Tribulation" to involve microchips and dictators and so forth, and many people even believe they won't be here to experience it.  But they totally miss the fact that we're to be going through an inward "great tribulation" throughout our walk.

I know how that emailer feels.  There are seasons when I do feel lost and useless and doubtful about what I thought I knew. And there are seasons I go through when I don't even seem to care about anything spiritual.  But then I get dragged back in and begin to learn new things.  Just part of the tribulations we have to go through to enter the kingdom I guess. 

I was thinking the other day about lifting weights.  When the muscles are used to lift heavy weights, they are torn down and need time to rest and recuperate so they can rebuild.  And each time they are torn down and rebuilt, they rebuild themselves a little bit bigger and stronger than they were before. 

Maybe God made the muscles of the human body that way as a symbol of what our spiritual growth is like.  I think about Jacob wrestling with God.  I think that's what we have to do from time to time.  He brings us to a point where we question things, question ourselves, question God, struggle, get frustrated, feel lost, see our weaknesses, etc.

But we have to go through these things, and He always (hopefully) brings us back to a point of coming back to Him for rest - but we have to wrestle with Him and probably endure some chastening first.  We  do our ''heavy lifting'' as we wrestle with God and search for answers.  But then He brings us back to rest for a season.  We have peace in our spirit, and during this time of rest, our "spiritual muscles" rebuild a little bit bigger and stronger than they were before. 

Or maybe I'm just crazy.  But Paul did say:
 
1 Timothy 4
7Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.


Paul does make somewhat of a comparison between physical training and training ourselves to be godly.  All physical training, whether it's lifting weights or endurance training or just hard work - it's all very taxing at the time.  But it benefits us and makes the body stronger and able to handle more and more each time we do it. 

I could go on and on about this, but I guess that's enough for now.  :)


Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: Martymonster on January 21, 2007, 12:13:09 AM
I was thinking that God doesn't want us to be cofident in our own ability at all!

isn't that just eating from the tree of good and evil?

My understanding is, every time we try to do our own good works then we are just trying to keep the law through our own self sufficiency which leads to death, but as soon as we've gotten to the place where we realise that we can't do absolutely anything with out Him, as soon as we come to this realisation He can take us by the hand and keep the law of the spirit through us.

It's my understanding that we cannot keep the law through any other means but by Jesus Christ!


The Letter brings death but the spirit brings life! ???
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: hebrewroots98 on January 21, 2007, 12:26:44 AM
I like that..."THE FIRST CHURCH OF THE DROPOUTS FOR JESUS" ;D
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: iris on January 21, 2007, 12:46:46 AM
This is a great thread!!!

Its hard for me to know which way I'm going sometimes, but when I think about it, I can see God working with me and shaping me into something better. I tried over and over to stop smoking and never could. I begged God to help me quit. I got up one Monday morning, three months ago and God gave me the strength to not light up that first cigarette. It was so hard, but he stayed with me and I made it through that first day. The cravings for a cigarette are still really bad, but God is always there to help me make it through each day.

It is such a blessing to have this forum to come to. It always builds me up when I come here.


Iris
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: rocky on January 21, 2007, 02:53:39 AM
I was thinking that God doesn't want us to be cofident in our own ability at all!

isn't that just eating from the tree of good and evil?

My understanding is, every time we try to do our own good works then we are just trying to keep the law through our own self sufficiency which leads to death, but as soon as we've gotten to the place where we realise that we can't do absolutely anything with out Him, as soon as we come to this realisation He can take us by the hand and keep the law of the spirit through us.

It's my understanding that we cannot keep the law through any other means but by Jesus Christ!


The Letter brings death but the spirit brings life! ???

 :) :) :)
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: hillsbororiver on January 21, 2007, 01:00:39 PM
Something I've been thinking about is what is the suffering we are to experience to enter the kingdom of God? 

No one in this world is free from suffering.  Wounds run deep, for followers of Christ and non followers of Christ. 

I'm thinking the suffering is different for Christians, and the result is different.  One leads to worldly sorrow, and one leads to Godly sorrow. 

2Co 7:10  For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

there's a verse somewhere that talks about suffering for doing good or suffering for doing bad, (can't find it at the moment)

Just wondering if any have some examples of the differences, or insight.   



Hi Rocky,

I can give a short, personal response in regard to the difference between my own worldly suffering and Spiritual suffering. When I was oblivious to the Spirit and totally engrossed with day to day life in the world I would blame any setbacks or suffering on others, any time events did not go my way it was either someone else who screwed me or by their incompetence I had to overcome something that "never should have happened."

Now when things are not going the way I would desire or prefer I see it as part of the trials and tribulation I must endure to purge this carnal heart from it's inherent wickedness. Instead of looking outward for someone to blame I look inward and see how far I have yet to go.

There is comfort in knowing that God is in control and that He is creating His Sons and Daughters, as Patrick mentioned we are the clay and for a pot or vessel to be worth anything it must endure the kiln's fire.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe   

I agree Joe, whether we look at trials through carnal eyes or spiritual eyes is the key.  But do you think that is what this verse is meaning?

1Pe 3:17  It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.







Hi Rocky,

I sure can see that application in our physical lives, to be wrongly accused and punished for something we did not do or like in Nazi Germany for instance when people doing a good thing (hiding Jews, Gypsies, and many other "undsirables") at the risk of imprisonment or worse. Being punished for good works rather than being in that same prison (or worse) for being a murderer, thief, etc.

There is another valid application I believe, that would be repaying good with evil, the one doing good would most assuredly experience a trial/tribulation in the here and now where the repayer of evil (if unconverted or not chosen) will revisit this act in the Lake of Fire.

An example might be that an old friend is down on his luck so I decide to move him in with me, loan him money to fix his old car and help him find a job as I provide food and shelter and an encouraging word.

I come home from work one day and I see my house has been ransacked almost anything of any worldly value is gone, so is my friend's car, clothes and personal effects.

My pain and disapointment would be very real as he was congratulating himself on conning this sap (me).

This is a rather extreme example but betrayel is just as real a pain even if it is only untrue, envious words being spoken.

As Christ was betrayed I believe the elect will also have this experience in varying degrees in this life, often from family or friends. As for those who commit these acts of evil often there is no remorse until they get caught and prosectuted (or even just confronted with their actions), then there is remorse but usually only at being caught. The real remorse will be when they are introduced to His purifying Fire.

So my take here is that it is better to suffer for doing good in this life (chosen) than to suffer in the Lake of Fire for evil done (and thought about) in this life.

A few verses,

Psa 35:12  They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul.

Psa 38:20  They also that render evil for good are mine adversaries; because I follow the thing that good is.

Ecc 12:14  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Jer 18:20  Shall evil be recompensed fo good? for they have digged a pit for my soul. Remember that I stood before thee to speak good for them, and to turn away thy wrath from them.

His Word is so layered in Truths, I have come to see that so much scripture has many levels of Wisdom to be absorbed and understood.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe  

 
 
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: Kat on January 21, 2007, 01:09:40 PM
This has been an interesting topic Joe,
I've had to ponder this a bit.

But I think about where I am spiritually now and where I was a little over a year ago,
wow what a difference a year makes.
The last few years before I came to Bibletruths, I had began to feel like an utter failure.
I had been in one church or the other for 25 years, and devoted to being a 'Christian.'  :-\
I did not feel like I had come to a higher spiritual level than when I begun, and actually that first love had been really strong when I started, but at that point I was just hanging on.  
I was not happy with church.  My marriage was not going so good.  I had homeschooled my girls, so I didn't have a career.  Now my girls are really good, but they were teenagers and I was not feeling like I was a very good mother either.  

So I just felt like through all of those years of doing the best I could, I had not accomplished anything of any real significance.

And then I came upon Bibletruths.  
I didn't begin to see thing slowly, oh no, these profound truths were coming at a rapid pace.  
Needless to say, like so many other have talked about, I was sweep off my feet, by what I was learning.

It has been over a year and I am still very much blown away by it all.
Before, I would get angry, especially in traffic, and I would just go off.  
Now I have just become conscience of everything I think or say or do.  
I still get mad sometimes, but nothing like before, and I immediately realize when I lose control, even if it's just a little bit.  
It's like I really am aware of Christ and I know He is very much aware of everything I think or say or do.
So things are a lot different, maybe even harder in some ways, but so much better.

Well I guess that was like a little testimony  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: Deborah-Leigh on January 21, 2007, 01:32:22 PM
Kat

Reading your post reminded me that thoughts words and deeds are works that we will be evaluated for and for which we will give account. It is so wonderful and such a privilage to be given recognition of this fact and awareness to this reality through God's mercy and unmerited favour, by grace and through His faith a gift to us!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: hillsbororiver on January 21, 2007, 01:36:41 PM
Kat,

Thank you for the beautiful testimony, I can relate to so much of it.

I first came across Bible Truths on August 2, 2005 and the changes in my life have also been profound, first and foremost is how my temper, my anger has subsided. Sure, there are times when the angry old man resurfaces, showing his ugly face but these episodes are fewer and farther in between now and I can't even get too far into a tantrum or tirade before I feel a spiritual tap on my shoulder and an admonishment, "Joe, this is not your way anymore, be still."

The dreams, lusts, vengeance and things I used to embrace have now become "thorns in my side" and cause me anguish whenever I contemplate them, this I know without a doubt is from His Spirit, the gift of His Grace, I have nothing to do with it or nothing to be proud of, in fact it is extremely humbling.

Thank you again Kat.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe  

    
Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: JJ on January 21, 2007, 04:02:25 PM
What a wonderful post of heart sharing!   I could not explain the experience of chastening grace any better, nor the resulting
realizations and growth.   From Joe to Kat and all the others-thank you for sharing!  I often ponder on this topic of why life seems so hard for me--leaves me feeling like a loser-others SEEM to have it together, but things are not all that they seem.  I will take the hard chastening with the resulting joy and wisdom, over anything this temporal life can offer.  If life never again enters a season of
refreshment or relaxation, I'm still in this  for the long term.  I love to rest in God's soveignty even when on the outside He is
beating my backside.  I have grown comfortable and sometimes fond of humiliations and disappointments, because of the growth
that results.   If things got calm and easy,  I too would wonder if God had left me.   The world and even the christian realm would
have me commited for this mindset!

15 months have passed since God grabbed my head and heart on these awesome truths.  The chastening had already begun LONG before that and had brought me to a "face in the dirt" (worse than the "on your knees") experience, begging for God's strength to survive, THEN!  it got harder!   The difference was, that I understood why.  Just understanding why God MUST chasten me, gave me determination to hang on and at times great joy in the painful journey. 

In this last year of God's working me over, I have lost interest in the political battles, learned to love my enemy, stopped blowing
gaskets in anger and learned to take disappointments with ease (knowing God is sovereign--can't question His choices/will), stopped my bleeding heart over the horrible troubles of others (God will set all things right in the end) and in general have become a very cheerful person in the midst of difficult situations.  I still love people, even more now that God has shown me my own beast,
still care about others, but realize I am not God and can not change people or even help them when it isn't God's time yet.  God has
taken hardship that threatened to destroy a commited marriage and renewed a deep marital love that is most blessed in this
crazy world.  There are more blessings that have resulted from trials and chastening!    Deep and passionate joy!

The strangest thing for me is seeing how God has forced me into situations that are opposite of those I would have chosen and then
built character strengths in me that I was sure I could never have!   He seems to have been answering all my pleas for help,  for
cleansing and help in weakness, by giving me MUCH more than I could handle and then saving me in the nick of time with HIS
strength!   The world would say that I had it all the time--the strength, but just had to be pushed to find it.  I KNOW that is not true!
I was a wasted, worn-out, sorry piece of flesh and God has brought LIFE!    All is of GOD!  And I want all He has for me, hard as well as pleasant. 

To find Life, we must lay down our very life before the King. 

Jayle

 

Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: Sorin on January 21, 2007, 09:11:10 PM
hillsbororiver said: "This journey He has called us into is one of trial and tribulation, sometimes it can seem to be a bit too much and we even wish we could just go back to being "normal" once again. But the Lord will have none of that and keeps pulling us closer to Him through this refining fire."


Joe,

You nailed it, that's exactly how I feel. But the fact that I'm not the only one that has those feelings and thoughts is encouraging.
And you're also right about being pulled back.

So much for the Christian teaching of 'you have to come to Christ all on your own' without anything pulling/dragging you to Him. Because I have tried many times to 'go back to being "normal" again' and well, so much for my supposed 'free will' because if I do possess such a power it sure "ain't" working.

Take care,
Sorin








Title: Re: "Why So Hard?"
Post by: Joey Porter on January 21, 2007, 09:32:05 PM
hillsbororiver said: "This journey He has called us into is one of trial and tribulation, sometimes it can seem to be a bit too much and we even wish we could just go back to being "normal" once again. But the Lord will have none of that and keeps pulling us closer to Him through this refining fire." 


Not suprisingly, there is scripture that addresses this carnal side that we have, that sometimes thinks about what it would be like to "go back."  For those times when we're in the spiritual "desert."

Numbers 20
5 Why did you bring us up out of Egypt to this terrible place? It has no grain or figs, grapevines or pomegranates. And there is no water to drink!"













Quote