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=> General Discussions => Topic started by: rick on March 22, 2015, 09:44:45 PM
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Wow is all I can say, Christendom taught me that not only is Satan the god of this world but the serpent also owns the earth as well and while reading the precious words of God I found the real truth in the book of ( Exo ) the earth belongs to God.
How about that, guess God’s giving me a spiritual overhaul, His truth is marching on. :) :) :)
Exodus 19:5
(ABP+) AndG2532 now,G3568 ifG1437 in hearing,G189 you should hearG191 G3588 myG1699 voice,G5456 andG2532 guardG5442 G3588 my covenant,G1242 G1473 you will beG1510.8.5 to meG1473 [2peopleG2992 1a prized]G4041 fromG575 allG3956 theG3588 nations.G1484 [6mineG1699 1ForG1063 5isG1510.2.3 2allG3956 3theG3588 4earth].G1093
(ASV) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be mine own possession from among all peoples: for all the earth is mine:
(BBE) If now you will truly give ear to my voice and keep my agreement, you will be my special property out of all the peoples: for all the earth is mine:
(Brenton) And now if ye will indeed hear my voice, and keep my covenant, ye shall be to me a peculiar people above all nations; for the whole earth is mine.
(CEV) Now if you will faithfully obey me, you will be my very own people. The whole world is mine,
(Darby) And now, if ye will hearken to my voice indeed and keep my covenant, then shall ye be my own possession out of all the peoples--for all the earth is mine ;)
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Its interesting you make this post as it comes on the heal of what John said in your other thread. I will share what I did there over here.
Ray made this comment which is where most people get the idea that satan is the god of this world from:
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Somebody ask me if "the god of this world" could possibly be referring to God rather than Satan. I considered it a long time ago, because Satan deceives and God blinds. God blinded them, Satan deceived.
2Cor. 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine upon them.
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I'm inclined to believe that 2 Cor. 4:4 is a reference to God and not satan as ray stated above but I want to see if there is any more scripture that could shed light on this passage? What I mean is, is there another verse that makes the claim of 2 Cor. 4:4 but removes all doubt that "god of this world" is definitely satan? Because I just can't see that, I never believed it honestly and when I first read that in the lake of fire series I pushed past it but I was never completely satisfied or convinced with the idea. At least, I think it was the lake of fire series where ray first uses that idea.
God bless,
Alex
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Let's add some more context to this. The Audio I quoted from was from 2007. This conference took place AFTER ray had completed the lake of fire series. Here is ray (perhaps years before that conference) in his writtings claiming that "god of this world" is a reference to SATAN. Like I said, this never sat well with me even with the case ray makes in that lake of fire paper. Yes, satan has power over the nations as ray says, its how he offered Christ the nations, but I don't agree right now that this makes him the "god of this world." Hence why I want more scripture on this, if there exists another one. Two witnesses!
----------------------------------------------------------------- http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html
Notice that it was the spirit of God that led Jesus to be tempted of the devil. Can we not see that Satan serves a needful purpose in God’s plan? It was absolutely needful that Satan tempt Jesus. If it weren’t needful, God wouldn’t have done it! And so Satan tried to bribe Christ into worshiping him:
"Again, the DEVIL takes Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and shows Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; and says to Him, All these things will I give You, if You will fall down and worship me" "Matt. 4:8-9).
Let’s notice a few things overlooked by most Sunday school teachers (and most of the world’s greatest theologians as well). Ready? Are you sure? Okay, here goes: ALL THE NATIONS OF THE ENTIRE WORLD BELONG TO SATAN THE DEVIL!!! Heaven and Earth are God’s possessions, however, God has delegated the nations to Satan. Satan could not offer all these kingdoms of the world to Jesus if he did not possess them to offer them in the first place. They are Satan’s ignorant kingdoms:
"In whom the god [SATAN] of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the Image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).
Oh, that the Church would believe the Scriptures. Why are there billions who "believe not" in the world? Is it because they CHOOSE to believe not? That’s what well-intentioned Christians tell me all the time. "Ray! these people CHOOSE to go to hell." How, pray tell, can they "choose" to go to hell, when they "believe NOT" in the first place. They don’t "make a choice," the choice is made for them, because they "believe not." And JUST WHY do they "believe not?"
Will you insist on the Church’s answer or will you humbly accept God’s answer? "In whom the God of this world has BLINDED the minds of them that believe NOT…" That’s why they can’t "see" to make the right choice—THEY ARE BLIND!
Now then, what would happen if God were to REMOVE that Satanic blindness? Would they STILL choose to reject Jesus Christ and His gospel? We don’t need to speculate, let’s read it:
"In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, LEST the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, SHOULD SHINE UNTO THEM" (II Cor. 4:4).
When the deception is taken away, people will understand. When the blindness is taking away, people will see the truth.
Next, notice what Jesus Himself says would happen if this Satanic blindness were removed:
"For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed [Why? Why are their eyes ‘closed?’ Because, "the god of this world has BLINDED… them…" That’s why] lest at ANY TIME they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should BE CONVERTED, and I should HEAL them" (Matt. 13:15).
This is not rocket science. When Satan blinds the minds of people, they "believe NOT." And they cannot repent, be converted, or saved until the blindness is lifted and they are given a knowledge of the Truth. But is it God’s will that such a thing will ever happen?
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savour; Who WILL have all men to be saved [and just how might that come about?], and to come unto the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" (I Tim. 2:4).
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I believe ray's later perspective on this makes more sense and doesn't change any bit the truths of what he said above aside from the fact that satan doesn't get the title "god of this world." There is only one God.
God bless,
Alex
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another translation for 2 Cor. 4:4 -
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
The word is aiṓn, not kosmon. God is the God of all ages, not just this age. I inclined to think satan is the god of this age.
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another translation for 2 Cor. 4:4 -
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
The word is aiṓn, not kosmon. God is the God of all ages, not just this age. I inclined to think satan is the god of this age.
Hi Zevda,
That's certainly a possibility. What I see in that too though is that by God being the God of ALL ages, He by definition then is the God of THIS age too. Now perhaps satan is the god of this age as well as God but that seems strange to me. I mean, it could be... I always thought though as ray put it that God blinds but Satan deceives. Not that Satan blinds which is what this verse would be saying if taken that way. It could be though.. satan perhaps could blind too. I guess there is no verse that says he DOESN'T blind is there?
I looked at the greek for this verse as well and the only difference between the two words used as "god" and "God" in this verse is the that god is translated from theos while God is translated from theou. Very similar and I don't know what the difference in the two last greek letters means. Either way, the beginning of both words is identical so i'm it must be that final letter that caused the translators to make one a lower case "g" and the other a upper case "G."
God bless,
Alex
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Hi Alex, the New Living Translation also adds satan to the beginning of the verse -
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
I think "theou" could refer to true God or false god. look at John 10:35 and Acts 7:40
John 10:35 Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Acts 7:40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
Maybe 2 Cor. 4:4 is referring to a false god in general?
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Where are you guys getting "theou"? In II Cor. 4:4? I can't find a Greek word "theou" at all. Both times it is used in this verse, it is "theos."
Ray is correct in what Alex quoted.
Just to add: Don't give satan 'free moral agency' either. He is a tool in the Hand that formed him. He's not going around doing his own thing with God responding/reacting to it. All is of God. In this way, it matters little who the "god" of this world/age/nations is. Father has it all under control.
http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html
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Where are you guys getting "theou"? In II Cor. 4:4? I can't find a Greek word "theou" at all. Both times it is used in this verse, it is "theos."
Ray is correct in what Alex quoted.
Just to add: Don't give satan 'free moral agency' either. He is a tool in the Hand that formed him. He's not going around doing his own thing with God responding/reacting to it. All is of God. In this way, it matters little who the "god" of this world/age/nations is. Father has it all under control.
http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html
Hey Dave,
I looked at the greek interlinear to see the difference. The KJV with strong's won't give you the subtle difference. You could also google a search for the greek version of it and you'll see it there. Either way, they are extremely similar but its that last letter.
I also agree with your last statement Dave. It matters little as Jesus is certainly the God of this age and more! He is definitely very in control and certainly not satan.
God bless,
Alex
Edit: Here is a page where you can go to verse 4 and find it in how its rendered in several different greek manuscripts:
http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B47C004.htm
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I just checked these two greek words again and they might as well be hte same greek word. There appears to be very little distinction between why one is used against another.
For example:
Matt 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God [Gk: theos ] is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Here in this verse, theos, referes to God (that is, the Father and Son ) and yet its the same greek word used in 2 Cor 4:4 that the translators made "god" lower case and thus appearing to mean "satan."
I don't understand why they did this and it doesn't make sense in my opinion, not if it can mean God the Father or Jesus in one verse and then randomly "god" when they think that it fits. I think they were blinded by their theology because they didn't think God could blind since tranditional christian theology that is responsible for much heresy through translations believes that God didn't create evil or does anything evil.
Here is another example, Matt 6:30 "Wherefore, if God [ GK: 'theos' ]so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?"
Surely this is not speaking of Satan clothing us is it?! I mean there are so many example of this. I got 561 hits for this world alone. I'm not going to check all of them heh...
God bless,
Alex
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I get the same thing, Alex. Both are translated (and should be) "god". I don't remember my greek grammar well enough to comment...I can still make out the letters, though. ;) I suspect it has to do with how it is used in the sentence as a "part of speech". 'OF God' may well be 'spelled' differently than 'God OF'.
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The way I see it Satan is the leader (god) of the blind, those that are deceived, and in darkness. The nations as a whole, and all false religions. Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
He had no power over JESUS, because Jesus is the LIGHT of the world, the Word made flesh, the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE, The SON of GOD.
Joel
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Hi Alex, here are some verses that you can consider.
2Cor 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers (G2888 of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Strong's
G2888 kosmokratōr - a world ruler, an epithet of Satan: - ruler.
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world. Now shall the prince (G758) of this world be cast out.
John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler (G758) of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.
John 16:11 of judgment, because the ruler (G758) of this world is judged.
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince (G758) of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
Strong's
G758 archōn - a first (in rank or power): - chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.
1John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. (NKJV)
1John 5:19 We are aware that we are of God, and the whole world is lying in the wicked one." (CLV)
1John 5:19 We know that we are from God and that the whole world lies under the control of the evil one. (ISV)
1John 5:19 We know that, of God, are we; and, the whole world, in the wicked one, is lying. (Rotherham)
1John 5:19 we have known that of God we are, and the whole world in the evil doth lie; (Young's)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Hi Alex.
It’s interesting that Satan offers Christ all the kingdoms of the word but scripture clearly states that God owns the world, could it be that Satan has also been deceived even by God ?
Its obvious Satan believes he owns the world by his statement I will give you all the kingdoms of the world but God says the world belongs to him, could it be that God owns the world but Satan owns the kingdoms of the world ?
But then I must ask, who raises up kings to rule these kingdoms ? God right. So, Satan is being deceived by God thinking he owns the kingdoms of the world.
Anyways you make some good points too but just because Satan says something, in reality it means not much because Satan is a liar so I put no trust in what he says or says he owns.
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Hi Alex, here are some verses that you can consider.
2Cor 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers (G2888 of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Strong's
G2888 kosmokratōr - a world ruler, an epithet of Satan: - ruler.
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world. Now shall the prince (G758) of this world be cast out.
John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler (G758) of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.
John 16:11 of judgment, because the ruler (G758) of this world is judged.
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince (G758) of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
Strong's
G758 archōn - a first (in rank or power): - chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.
1John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. (NKJV)
1John 5:19 We are aware that we are of God, and the whole world is lying in the wicked one." (CLV)
1John 5:19 We know that we are from God and that the whole world lies under the control of the evil one. (ISV)
1John 5:19 We know that, of God, are we; and, the whole world, in the wicked one, is lying. (Rotherham)
1John 5:19 we have known that of God we are, and the whole world in the evil doth lie; (Young's)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Great verses Kat. Definitely liked 1 John 5:19
God bless,
Alex
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2 Cor 4:4, The god of this world... Just can't stop thinking about the god of this world before his conversion! Any how just some thoughts!
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
Eze 28:6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Any thoughts here?
Great additions Micheal.
I see now that Satan can certainly be the god of this world but that he is only doing according to what God has planned (Eph 1:11, Ecc 3:17, Dan 4:25). The evil he commits can only be within the boundaries that God has framed (Jeremiah 18:11). So nothing is out of God's control but satan is doing what he was created by God to do (Isaiah 54:16, Job 26:13).
God bless,
Alex
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Hi Alex, I edited my last comment in the very top line. I didn't make it clear on my thoughts.
In this Scripture it does not say, that satan is the god of this world!
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
In LRays lake of fire teachings he shows us that we all have done this, ( Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.) and the scriptures I showed give witness to this. I don't know in scripture where it says satan is a god?
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places
Where do I do the things in the above scripture? I do them in the high and lofty places of my mind/heart against the god of this world.
I might get some heat for this one, but this is how I see it :) God Bless
Well, becareful Micheal, satan is NOT the carnal mind. Where you do those things is in your mind. We are born with carnal minds. The carnal mind did not tempt eve in the garden. The carnal mind did not present itself before God and then tell God to test His servant Job.
As to the subject, I am willing to accept the ambiguity of 2 Cor 4:4 without another witness to clear it up. That is, another witness which declares satan as the "god of this world." That being said, I clearly see that he is a ruler of sorts and has been give tremendous power within limits to do what he was created to do (destroy). There are also rulerS of darkness in this domain that have power and which we wrestle against. Nevertheless, they are at the beck and call of God and are powerless without Him. As Jesus told pontious pilot:
John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Either way, we know that the Lord's army is encamped around us and no harm can come to us unless it is by God's plan that we are to endure such things. To His glory and our benefit.
Kings 6:15-18 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
God is the God of the eons, all of them, and that includes this one. So if satan is given the title of "god of THIS world" for now than either way it changes nothing. If 2 Cor 4:4 isn't about him then it really changes nothing too in my opinion. Some verses are hard to understand and I will wait and pray on it. In God's time I believe He will give me certainty on the issue. I won't lose sleep over it though ;)
God bless,
Alex
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As to the subject, I am willing to accept the ambiguity of 2 Cor 4:4 without another witness to clear it up. That is, another witness which declares satan as the "god of this world." That being said, I clearly see that he is a ruler of sorts and has been give tremendous power within limits to do what he was created to do (destroy). There are also rulerS of darkness in this domain that have power and which we wrestle against. Nevertheless, they are at the beck and call of God and are powerless without Him.
v
God is the God of the eons, all of them, and that includes this one.
Hi Alex, this point may very well have merit. I have been searching and found these Scripture, that clearly identify the "only God."
1Tim 1:17 and to the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only wise God, is honour and glory--to the ages of the ages! Amen.
Rom 16:27 to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, to him be glory to the ages. Amen.
It seems that 2 Cor 4:4 may be one of those Scripture that the great deceiver has used to get the world/church to call him god, and accomplished it quite well.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Clearly identify Him as the only WISE God. All the words.
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God is the creator of the world and not the "god of the world" in this age.
Satan is the god of this world for his works influence the world’s religion, philosophies, banking, education, commerce, kingdom, etc. Under his control comes deception, lies and death.
You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. Eph 2:2
Footnote:
* 2:2 Greek obeying the commander of the power of the air.
The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out. Jhn 12:31
God causes Satan to operate in this world within the boundaries has set for him.
For he has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son, Col 1:13
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD Job 1:12
God tells us not to love the world;
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him 1Jo 2:15
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1Jo 2:16
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever 1Jo 2:17
Even Jesus not praying to the world which is the unbelievers but the believers.
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. Jhn 17:9
But we know Jesus kingdom is not of this world.
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Jhn 18:36
Jesus continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You belong to this world; I do not. Jhn 8:23
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Jhn 17:14
God prepares believers a kingdom not of this age, but even prepared it before the foundation of the world.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. Mat 25:34
And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return Luk 19:12-13
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Dan 7:13-14
CONCLUSION:
The Scriptures says that Satan is the "god of this world," is not implying that he has final or the total authority but it is explaining us the idea that Satan rules over the unbelieving world in this age and in this present world. The unbeliever follows Satan's task that God has causes him "The god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ." Prince of this world’s plot includes promoting false religion and lies in the world and blind the unbeliever to the truth of the Gospel. Satan’s works are his foods in which people are imprisoned, and they must be set free by our savior Jesus Christ.
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2Co 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
Clearly this verse is open for interpretation... as Alex pointed out that it being not capitalized was determined by the translators. There is a Scripture that says who it is that "blinds."
John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they should not see with their eyes nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
v. 41 These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.
Maybe other translations of the verses I gave is needed to consider what is being said.
Rom 16:27 to the only, and wise God, through Christ Jesus, be glory for the eons of the eons. Amen!" (CLV)
Rom 16:27 Unto a God, wise alone, through Jesus Christ, unto whom be the glory, unto the ages. Amen. (Rotherham)
Rom 16:27 to God only wise be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen. (MKJV)
1Tim 1:17 Now to the King of the eons, the incorruptible, invisible, only, and wise God, be honor and glory for the eons of the eons! Amen!" (CLV)
1Tim 1:17 Now, unto the King of the ages,—incorruptible, invisible, alone God, be honour and glory, unto the ages of ages, Amen! (Rotherham)
1Ti 1:17 Now to the King Eternal—the immortal, invisible, and only God—be honor and glory forever and ever! Amen. (ISV)
1Tim 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (ASV)
So make of this what you will.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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There are multiple witnesses that prove Satan is the god of this world in 2Cor 4:4.
In both the Old and New Testaments the word for God (Elohim in Hebrew and Theos in Greek) can be used for humans and angels who are rulers, princes, chiefs or in positions of authority. Translators use a capital G for God and a lower case g when referring to others.
The scriptural proof of the use of god for rulers and other authorities are, among others, Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34-35. The teacher in John 10 is Jesus Himself.
Thus god, prince, ruler, chief, power are synonyms.
Therefore, the god of this world being Satan is established by the following Scriptures:
2Cor 4:4
Eph 2:2
Eph 6:12
John 12:31
John 14:30
John 16:11
1John 5:19
There are many more Scriptures that show Satan rules this present world and has many powers, all of course given to him by God.
However those who reject the 2 witnesses, will not be convinced by more witnesses. For those who do not tremble at the Word of God, who kill the two witnesses on the streets of Jerusalem, they will not understand. The god of this world has deceived their thoughts.
Only the Spirit of God through Jesus can bring understanding of spiritual things.
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YLT 1Co 8:4 Concerning the eating then of the things sacrificed to idols, we have known that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one;
1Co 8:5 for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth--as there are gods many and lords many--
1Co 8:6 yet to us is one God, the Father, of whom are the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are the all things, and we through Him;
What makes a 'god' which is no god--"nothing in the world"? I reckon it's worship. If one worships a statue, it is his god, even though it is only a piece of wood or stone, or whatever. What makes a god or lord which IS something in the world? I reckon it's still worship.
Sometime back, I was exchanging PM's with a member concerning the scripture that Jesus quoted when He said:
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
and I said, in effect: If 'we' are gods, it begs the question "what kind of god are we/am I?"
Not the kind of god who makes all things and without Whom nothing that has been made was made. Not the kind of God who humbled Himself and became a man, obedient in all things even unto death--and not just any death, but the death of the cross (at least not in any way other than to follow Him).
Is Satan the God of this world? He would be the god of this world even if he did not exist. But the earth and the heavens belong to the One God. Even better, to 'us', He has given authority to become the sons of God. And the "all things" are "of Him" and "through Him"...and even we are in there somewhere.
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This tread has been very interesting, as well as revealing or better put, exposing those who contradict.
I can only speak of myself and my experiences in life especially those things I was taught by Christendom by way of the church or the tv evangelists I once watch or the books I read. They are all the same with a difference here or there.
I was under the belief system that when Adam and Eve fell in the garden of Eden they gave ownership of this earth to Satan.
I discovered through Bible Truths that there really was never a fall in the garden of Eden and that Adam and Eve were sinners before they took from the tree of good and evil.
Now I’m thinking there is only one God, one true God, so how can Satan be a god if there is only one God ? I know Jesus referred to us or people as gods in the scripture, so if Satan is a god he would be a god spelled with a small g only.
I find that I have some truth in me but also lies from my past are still present, who will save me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ that Jesus will save me , wants to save me and intends to save me, that’s who will save me. :)
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http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.msg27041.html#msg27041
I guess we can let this run a while longer, but considering where we are and why we are here, I thought it might be good to post the link above. Ray was quoted in this thread as having taught that scripture teaches that satan is the god of this world. There are a lot of other 'concepts' and 'truths' attached to this, and some 'knowledge' of these may be required as well. I'll just name three: 1. Satan. 2. God. 3. World.
I posted a link to teaching on "satan". There are others within the LOF series. "God" is a title, and other things carry that title as well. "World" as Ray explained in the quote is not "the heavens and the earth", but the "nations". I doubt that even THAT word adequately covers what constitutes the "world" according to scripture, but it's at least true.
Anyway: Read the link above if you are still perplexed and want to continue. Otherwise, continue your study.
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Darn flesh gets in the way all the time... :o :D 8)
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i keep on repeating reading where Alex pulling out the excerpt of Ray's lake of Fire part 9 "SATAN ATTEMPTS THE IMPOSSIBLE".
John from Kentucky's input brings additional enlightenment on the topic. Thanks so much.
This tread has been very interesting, as well as revealing or better put, exposing those who contradict according to Rick.
All your inputs brings light, maybe as bright as Michael Archangel ;)
Sometimes we need humor and this is not Unscriptural :D
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i keep on repeating reading where Alex pulling out the excerpt of Ray's lake of Fire part 9 "SATAN ATTEMPTS THE IMPOSSIBLE".
John from Kentucky's input brings additional enlightenment on the topic. Thanks so much.
This tread has been very interesting, as well as revealing or better put, exposing those who contradict according to Rick.
All your inputs brings light, maybe as bright as Michael Archangel ;)
Sometimes we need humor and this is not Unscriptural :D
;D
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Philippians 3:19-Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
Some Bible versions chose not to capitalize God in this verse unlike the KJV, and some other modern versions.
Joel
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Ok my bad, sorry sorry sorry , had to go back and read LRays teachings, any how the short of it
The world:
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience
The world= the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world( the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life ) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them... Yes satan is the god of this world
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I am a little rough around the edges and please forgive me if I offended anyone!
lessons learned, all the words that I search out for a second witness might not say exactly what I am looking for such as satan is the god of this world
and when I read LRays teaching on this in the lake of fire he used the first scripture and I seen that Eph 2:2 was a good second witness to what the world is. And now I can see that 2Cor 4:4 is talking about the god of my flesh/ the world. So satan is the god of this world/flesh and the ruler of nations because all nations have flesh in them.
Ok my bad, sorry sorry sorry , had to go back and read LRays teachings, any how the short of it
The world:
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience
The world= the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world( the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life ) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them... Yes satan is the god of this world
:D In Christ Mike
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Ok my bad, sorry sorry sorry , had to go back and read LRays teachings, any how the short of it
The world:
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience
The world= the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world( the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life ) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them... Yes satan is the god of this world
Hi Micheal,
I don't agree with your conclusion that "The world" IS "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life."
I just don't think you can make that jump. Certainly these things exist IN the world and are OF it as the apostle said but I don't think you can now take the word "Kosmos" and replace it with those sins and maintain the integrity of the scriptures.
I think if we are going to call satan the "god of this age" then we must see it through the same spirit that inspired this verse:
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but ONE God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Or as the CLV has it "For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, NEVERTHELESS FOR US there is ONE God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him."
Indeed, though satan may be termed a god, he is no god. There is only ONE GOD.
I am still praying about this but what holds me back is:
Exo 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
John 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
John 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
John 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
Is not being blind spiritually the result of having ones heart hardened? Who hardens? Who is capable of such things but God?
Exodus 7:13 And he [GOD] hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said.
Exodus 10:20 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.
Romans 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
Similarly we have this:
Matthew 13:10-11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is NOT given.
Who gives in this case? God gives (Job 1:21, Matthew 13:12). So then God has not given to them, they are blind.
An even bolder declaration. God sends strong DELUSION so that people BELIEVE A LIE!
2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2 Thessalonians 2:1112 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
I'm genuinely trying to see if satan can blind but it all goes back to God in the end so how can we be so certain that 2 Cor 4:4 is about satan and not God?
Perhaps it is both, that is, God blinds through satan which He created but if that is the case, I'm hard pressed to find a verse (aside from 2 Cor 4:4) that makes or shows this to be the case. Does anyone know of a verse?
Paul states that the serpent DECEIVED eve and NOT that he blinded her (1 Tim 2:14, 2 Corinthians 11:3).
John also describes him in Revelation as the seprent that DECEIVES the world and NOT blinds it (Revelation 12:9, Revelation 20:8 ).
I'm having a hard time accepting even the term "god of this world" for satan as the blinding part erks me greatly in light of other scripture.
As I said, I will continue to pray on this matter and perhaps God will provide a light.
God bless,
Alex
P.S. The word translated "prince" of this world in John 10 (notice Jesus doesn't say "god" of this world but He could have) is NEVER translated god at any time in the KJV according to strong's. I cannot agree with JFK that prince and God are synonymous in meaning when applied to satan.
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2Cor 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
Hi Alex, I kept looking at different verse and going back and forth on what this could mean. Then I looked at the wording carefully "the god of this age"... as Dave was saying god is a title and is something/one worshiped. So when you think of what that verse is saying is, Satan indeed is, unknowingly, worshiped by the world, therefore he is their god. Christ wouldn't succumb to Satan clumsy attempt to get Him to fall down and worship him and now neither do His elect either.
Another point is it says of "this age," Satan has been given rule over the world for "this age" only and he has made himself a god to this world. But he in no way has power over God and His chosen and when Christ returns He will cast Satan down once and for all.
Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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2Cor 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
Hi Alex, I kept looking at different verse and going back and forth on what this could mean. Then I looked at the wording carefully "the god of this age"... as Dave was saying god is a title and is something/one worshiped. So when you think of what that verse is saying is, Satan indeed is, unknowingly, worshiped by the world, therefore he is their god. Christ wouldn't succumb to Satan clumsy attempt to get Him to fall down and worship him and now neither do His elect either.
Another point is it says of "this age," Satan has been given rule over the world for "this age" only and he has made himself a god to this world. But he in no way has power over God and His chosen and when Christ returns He will cast Satan down once and for all.
Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
So then you are all in agreement that Satan blinds? I can't find this anywhere in the scriptures. Every time its clearly satan, its attributed to him having deceived, not blinded (1 Tim 2:14, 2 Corinthians 11:3, Revelation 12:9, Revelation 20:8 ).
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Perhaps it is both, that is, God blinds through satan which He created but if that is the case, I'm hard pressed to find a verse (aside from 2 Cor 4:4) that makes or shows this to be the case.
Alex, does Jesus being "King of kings" negate him being "Lord of lords", since a different word is used? I think you are making things too complicated.
Was it Satan or God who brought evil on Job? Who did JOB say brought these evils on him? Was Job wrong? Do we just ignore that because Satan didn't "blind" Job? Satan can be a tool in the hand of God in other ways, but he cannot 'blind' people?
Look, not even Satan "blinds" people directly all the time. That's why he has and uses ministers. Hagee 'blinds' because he was blinded. Someone 'blinded' him and that doesn't have to be satan directly...he is the father of all lies.
1Co 8:6 yet to us is one God, the Father, of whom are the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are the all things, and we through Him;
1Co 8:7 but not in all men is the knowledge, and certain with conscience of the idol, till now, as a thing sacrificed to an idol do eat it , and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.
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Perhaps it is both, that is, God blinds through satan which He created but if that is the case, I'm hard pressed to find a verse (aside from 2 Cor 4:4) that makes or shows this to be the case.
Alex, does Jesus being "King of kings" negate him being "Lord of lords", since a different word is used? I think you are making things too complicated.
Was it Satan or God who brought evil on Job? Who did JOB say brought these evils on him? Was Job wrong? Do we just ignore that because Satan didn't "blind" Job? Satan can be a tool in the hand of God in other ways, but he cannot 'blind' people?
Look, not even Satan "blinds" people directly all the time. That's why he has and uses ministers. Hagee 'blinds' because he was blinded. Someone 'blinded' him and that doesn't have to be satan directly...he is the father of all lies.
1Co 8:6 yet to us is one God, the Father, of whom are the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are the all things, and we through Him;
1Co 8:7 but not in all men is the knowledge, and certain with conscience of the idol, till now, as a thing sacrificed to an idol do eat it , and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.
Hi Dave,
I'm not trying to make it more complicated. Merely following the scriptures on this one.
Satan is never said to blind, only to deceive. Yes, he is a tool in God's hand, but how? By blinding? No. By deceiving. Two different things. First satan deceives and then God blinds. All is of God though so satan cannot deceive unless it was planned by God first.
I also fail to see how your first statement, Jesus being King of Kings and Lord of Lords has anything to do with this. There are multiple witnesses for both those statements, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. I don't see multiple witnesses for satan being a god or satan blinding. Prince and ruler is one title that he is given with a few witnesses but never god. Perhaps someone knows one and that's what im asking for. Not trying to make it too complicated.
God bless,
Alex
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Well, far be it from me to infringe on the division of labor between satan and God. ;)
"We've" tried to show you what a "god" is, according to scripture.
I wish it were so easy as finding two "verses" which say the exact same thing. But scripture is spiritually discerned...and I'm not talking about eerie synth music playing while we're seeking to 'discern' it. Is there another "verse" that says "god is the belly"? Not that I know of, but was Paul lying? There are multiple witnesses which name satan (or his many nicknames, aliases, and/or ministers) as "gods" of this age. John posted quite a few.
You're looking to identify which 'god' blinds. But to US, there is ONE GOD. Maybe you're looking to see a difference between "blinding" and "deceiving". Maybe there is, maybe not-so-much. But "deceiving" is not in this verse.
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Exo 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exo 22:20 "He who sacrifices to any god, except to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
Deu 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them,
God knew that people would worship all manners of idols and He warned against it and commanded that we should not do so. But of course the carnality in people cannot resist the tendency to aggrandize and exalt 'things' and Satan has certainly taken advantage of that and has made himself the god of this world. If you are thinking Satan would need to have power/authority to be considered the god to this world, he does, here is what Christ spoke to Paul about his conversion and commission.
Acts 26:18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power (G1849) of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.'
G1849 exousia - privilege, that is, (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence: - authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.
The church worship Satan and think they are worshiping the one true God, they do not know the true God, they are in darkness, Satan is the only god they know. Only a very few are so blessed to have been brought out of that darkness.
Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.
v. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Alright, well, If the multitude of counsolers feels that this verse is certainly a reference to satan then I will relent and consider that satan blinds as much as God has the power to use him to do so. That makes sense to me.
Proverbs 11:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.
Proverbs 24:6 For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety.
God bless brothers and sisters and thank you for the very engaging and fruitful discussion. I feel my faith has certainly increased by searching these things out.
Love,
Alex
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Exo 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exo 22:20 "He who sacrifices to any god, except to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
Deu 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them,
God knew that people would worship all manners of idols and He warned against it and commanded that we should not do so. But of course the carnality in people cannot resist the tendency to aggrandize and exalt 'things' and Satan has certainly taken advantage of that and has made himself the god of this world. If you are thinking Satan would need to have power/authority to be considered the god to this world, he does, here is what Christ spoke to Paul about his conversion and commission.
Acts 26:18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power (G1849) of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.'
G1849 exousia - privilege, that is, (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence: - authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.
The church worship Satan and think they are worshiping the one true God, they do not know the true God, they are in darkness, Satan is the only god they know. Only a very few are so blessed to have been brought out of that darkness.
Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.
v. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Bingo!
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Hi Alex, heres what LRay said in 9 chapter of lake of fire:
Notice that it was the spirit of God that led Jesus to be tempted of the devil. Can we not see that Satan serves a needful purpose in God’s plan? It was absolutely needful that Satan tempt Jesus. If it weren’t needful, God wouldn’t have done it! And so Satan tried to bribe Christ into worshiping him:
"Again, the DEVIL takes Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and shows Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; and says to Him, All these things will I give You, if You will fall down and worship me" "Matt. 4:8-9).
Let’s notice a few things overlooked by most Sunday school teachers (and most of the world’s greatest theologians as well). Ready? Are you sure? Okay, here goes: ALL THE NATIONS OF THE ENTIRE WORLD BELONG TO SATAN THE DEVIL!!! Heaven and Earth are God’s possessions, however, God has delegated the nations to Satan. Satan could not offer all these kingdoms of the world to Jesus if he did not possess them to offer them in the first place. They are Satan’s ignorant kingdoms:
"In whom the god [SATAN] of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the Image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).
Oh, that the Church would believe the Scriptures. Why are there billions who "believe not" in the world? Is it because they CHOOSE to believe not? That’s what well-intentioned Christians tell me all the time. "Ray! these people CHOOSE to go to hell." How, pray tell, can they "choose" to go to hell, when they "believe NOT" in the first place. They don’t "make a choice," the choice is made for them, because they "believe not." And JUST WHY do they "believe not?"
Will you insist on the Church’s answer or will you humbly accept God’s answer? "In whom the God of this world has BLINDED the minds of them that believe NOT…" That’s why they can’t "see" to make the right choice—THEY ARE BLIND!
Now then, what would happen if God were to REMOVE that Satanic blindness? Would they STILL choose to reject Jesus Christ and His gospel? We don’t need to speculate, let’s read it:
"In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, LEST the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, SHOULD SHINE UNTO THEM" (II Cor. 4:4).
When the deception is taken away, people will understand. When the blindness is taking away, people will see the truth.
Next, notice what Jesus Himself says would happen if this Satanic blindness were removed:
"For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed [Why? Why are their eyes ‘closed?’ Because, "the god of this world has BLINDED… them…" That’s why] lest at ANY TIME they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should BE CONVERTED, and I should HEAL them" (Matt. 13:15).
This is not rocket science. When Satan blinds the minds of people, they "believe NOT." And they cannot repent, be converted, or saved until the blindness is lifted and they are given a knowledge of the Truth. But is it God’s will that such a thing will ever happen?
end of qoute.
Thats why I look for a scripture to say what the world was, like Lray said everything in Heaven and Earth is Gods possession. And thats why I see satan as the god os this world
Like LRay taught
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
And then Jesus unblinds them...
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming
God Bless
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So then you are all in agreement that Satan blinds? I can't find this anywhere in the scriptures. Every time its clearly satan, its attributed to him having deceived, not blinded (1 Tim 2:14, 2 Corinthians 11:3, Revelation 12:9, Revelation 20:8 ).
perhaps the key word is not "blinds" but "minds", and also "eyes".
2 Cor. 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
You want a a second witness that says satan blinds. But do you have a second witness that says God blinds people's mind too? John 12:40 says God blinded their eyes, not their minds.
The eyes and the mind are not the same things, the eyes see, the mind thinks/believes.
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2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not
Perhaps its the words of this world that indicate who this verse is speaking of.
Is God ever referred to as the "something/anything" of this world in scripture? What about Satan?
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.
John 16:11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Satan is referred to as being the such and such of this world in scripture. If God were referred to as being the something/anything of this world that, to me, in a way reduces or limits His power or sovereignty to this world or this age.
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Satan is referred to as being the such and such of this world in scripture. If God were referred to as being the something/anything of this world that, to me, in a way reduces or limits His power or sovereignty to this world or this age.
"Let it be so now"
But Jesus answered him, "Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness." Then he consented.Mat 3:15
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I find this scripture interesting considering that Christendom lead me to believe the exact opposite of what God has to say. ( A ) Christendom teaches Satan owns the world ( B ) God says He owns the world .
Psa 2 : 8
(ABP+) AskG154 fromG3844 me!G1473 andG2532 I will giveG1325 to youG1473 nationsG1484 G3588 for your inheritance;G2817 G1473 andG2532 G3588 for your possessionG2697 G1473 theG3588 endsG4009 of theG3588 earth.G1093
(ASV) Ask of me, and I will give thee the nations for thine inheritance, And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
(BBE) Make your request to me, and I will give you the nations for your heritage, and the farthest limits of the earth will be under your hand.
(Brenton) Ask of me, and I will give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the ends of the earth for thy possession.
(CEV) Ask me for the nations, and every nation on earth will belong to you.
(Darby) Ask of me, and I will give thee nations for an inheritance, and for thy possession the ends of the earth:
(ERV) If you ask, I will give you the nations. Everyone on earth will be yours.
(ESV) Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession.
(GNB) Ask, and I will give you all the nations; the whole earth will be yours.
(GW) Ask me, and I will give you the nations as your inheritance and the ends of the earth as your own possession.
PSA 2 :8 says the earth is ours if only we ask. and the nations too. Does Christendom ever get it right ? ::)
My two witnesses ....Exodus 19:5 and PSA 2 :8 :)
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Hi Alex, Alex you Quoted this in your post,
Hi Micheal,
I don't agree with your conclusion that "The world" IS "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life."
End of quote.
Hi Alex, Alex it is not my conclusion, but it is what the bible says, heres two witnesses;
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
John 7:7 (KJV)
7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil
Romans 12:2 (KJV)
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God
1 John 5:4 (KJV)
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Hi Rick, in that scripture you stated I notice its says earth and not world, and in 2Co 4:4 its says: the god of this world. I agree with your scriptures , and I also agree with 2 Co 4:4 meaning satan is the god of the world
R.P.J Mike
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Hi Mike,
I see something here I had not thought about before, the earth and world are one in the same to me but the scriptures you put up, 1Jn 2:15 , 1Jn 2:16 , Eph 2:2 and the others as well are not referring to the world or earth as I understand it as a tangible thing I believe these scriptures are referring to the social ,political and financial order of the world.
These are the things that are corrupt, it’s the system we live in and anyone who loves this system of things could not possible love God and so that’s why God says ( 1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.)
My original post was that I was lead to believe when Adam and Eve fell in the garden of Eden they relinquished ownership of the earth / world to Satan which is not what scripture tells me.
Perhaps it’s the system Satan was offering Jesus when he said to Christ ( Mat 4:8 Then the Devil took Jesus to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in all their greatness.
Mat 4:9 "All this I will give you," the Devil said, "if you kneel down and worship me.
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Hi Rick,
Job 1:7 (KJV)
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
I agree Rick that God owns All in the Heavens and in the earth and all those going to and fro and walking up and down in it...
God Bless... :D