bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: Amrhrasach on June 12, 2009, 01:48:12 PM
-
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Just a point of observation, more or less. Actually I’m not sure to be honest. Something has been on my mind of late and these verses are compelling toward that end. Point: I am a sinner. I hate it. I sin too much. I hate that as well. As much as I try not to sin it surely does best me. Not always but what little successes may be enjoyed they are shallow indeed. But in my non-trustworthy opinion the sin which I do is more sometimes than I wish to bear, or admit. But……BUT…..inwardly I feel/sense a love of/for the truth. And it delights me in the inner recesses of mind and heart that the love of truth is present. Is that possible? Looking at the above verses one would surely think so? Somehow, even though I live in the disgust of my carnal sinning self somewhere deep in me a light glows for the love of the truth and as small a flicker as it sometimes seems a happiness also remains in that light.
I admire loyalty. It’s a character trait I’ve always attempted to put forth with my friends and family and always wanted to receive in kind. Blood-letting loyalty if it must be so. (Not literally but just to show the magnitude). I like to give it and I like to receive it. Who doesn’t? But clearly I fail my Lord in this most treasured area. And that makes me extremely sad and it’s extremely disconcerting.
Am I making sense? Or have I fallen off the deep end? Delusional? Trickery?
How can one have a “love for truth”?......and yet fail so miserably?
Gary
-
Gary,
Because it is Jesus Christ in us, NOT our beastly nature, that is Truth And The Lover Of GOD'S Truth.
Isa 53:6 (KJV)
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Mat 5:20 (KJV)
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Right here in Romans Ch:8 is your answer.
Rom 8: 1-27 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 (CLV)
Now we are aware that God is working all together for the good of those who are loving God, who are called according to the purpose"
george ;D.
-
Thanks for this, guys. Can anyone NOT ask this same question, Gary? How can any of us love the truth and still fall prey to our sinful, ugly, inner beast?? If you've fallen off the deep end, buddy, I'm right there with you! Truthfully we are all a bunch of dirt bags! We've got to keep reading those verses in Romans 8! Thank you, George! Thank you, GOD that somewhere deep inside of us you are there! You are dragging us, drawing us, please, God don't stop picking us up and dusting us off!!
Kathy :'( :-*
-
hey gary,
great topic! I don't think there is anyone who hasn't felt just like you do....
the verses that you gave are some of the ones that i have read over and over for years and really felt they applied to me ...... and the verses that george gave just give the perfect answer.....
it never ceases to amaze me the knowledge and truth available on this site....
example: i have been trying to re-learn how to pray according to God's will, and this morning was right in the middle of prayer, asking God to "save" my family......then the thought came into my mind "save them from what?"....so i said "excuse me a minute God".....and ran to my computer to this site and typed in "saved from what?" and right there in one of Rays emails was the answers i was looking for.......after reading a while, i continued my prayer feeling like i was praying according to God's will......
If we are sincerely seeking answers to God's truth, He will provide them and peace & comfort to go along with it........
love,
lauriellen
-
I am right in there with the rest of you. My Beast has been getting knocked down in size some this week.
I sure can see how Ray has given us so many articles that touch on what we really do need to have to run in this race. Its all the word of God. Its our Lord Jesus grace we need.
I know, I come up short all the time. Only, this time I have the Lord Jesus to pick me up when I fall. Like Kathy, I pray he just keeps picking me up and dusting me off.
I was at a loss for words last night when I started to pray. But, that was taken care of by the Spirit. The Spirit knows what was on my heart.
I got thinking about it last night, even if I would not be in the first resurrection God has blessed me with the fact, that I know now there is no Hell.
With God everyone comes out as a winner.
But, something inside of me just keeps me wanting to run in this race. That, something is him. So, i just keep praying that he keeps me in.
The best advice for us is to keep reading the articles on the website. Ray has touched on pretty much that is needed to aid us on almost any topic or question we might have. The forum members are great to share with us and we all learn from things they post.
In His Love,
Marlene
-
Hi everyone,
Great topic...
I am always wanting to do better and to do it God's way. This morning I was thinking about the fruits of the Spirit and what Love is.
1 Cor 13:1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
I am so totally aware that I don't even have a clue what real Love is. Because of my background and having been abandoned by my father and mother, I lack the understanding of a having a loving parent somehow. How can you reconcile your past and look at our Heavenly Father with a healthy understanding of who He really is. I was raised by my grandparents and always felt like I had to earn their love. I am in a constant battle of wanting to be Daddy's (God's) good girl, but failing Him so miserably at the same time. The desire to do the right thing is always there, but every single day I come short. How can I just let God be God and experience His Love more fully and trust/rest in this knowledge?
I hope I am making sense...
Angie
-
Hi Angie,
if you could truely accept this scripture:
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were
sinners, Christ died for us.
Gods love for us is not based on our performance at all. There is nothing we could ever do to earn it, and on the other hand there is nothing that we could do to kill it!
also:
1John 3:20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart,
and knows all things.
God knows everything about us, good and bad, and He LOVES US ANYWAY! It is truely amazing when you think about it. His love is so superior to our human love that is based on selfishness. All we have to do is accept it, and rest in confidence of His love.
hope this helps, with love,
lauriellen
-
I apologize for my lagged response. Thank you all for your input, helpful indeed.
Firefly, I can relate. My brothers and I were also abandoned in our younger years and also raised (somewhat) by our grandparents. The "love" element was there but at a distance. It doesn't take the place of knowing parental love and in some ways if given full head (and it usually does) can mess with your psyche. For me anyway I never, beyond that point, ever trusted ANYONE who said "I love you". My reaction was usually "yea, right" and then giving them a good long look at my backside while walking away. As my grandmother would say to my siblings, "he doesn't trust your words, he MIGHT trust your actions". Sad really. Simply put, there's some things that only parents can teach a child. Relating that to the original posting it's right there, as you've said, perhaps an area that only God himself can truly understand the aches of the human heart of each and every soul and "bridge" that gap with mercy and tenderness unknown on a human scale.
Gary
-
Gary thank you for this post and George for for saying this:Because it is Jesus Christ in us, NOT our beastly nature, that is Truth And The Lover Of GOD'S Truth.
If only I could remember this. So many times we can even start to doubt that we are God's children when we seem to continually fail Him so miserably. Yes, our childhood has made a big impression on how we think and only God can change our thoughts that don't line up with how He is different as our daddy, than our earthly parents might have been.
Sooooooo thankful, meee
-
For me anyway I never, beyond that point, ever trusted ANYONE who said "I love you". My reaction was usually "yea, right" and then giving them a good long look at my backside while walking away. As my grandmother would say to my siblings, "he doesn't trust your words, he MIGHT trust your actions". Sad really.
Gary,
Very well said! You can tell me all day long that you love me... I would much rather see the action behind those words. I am a German, born and raised in Germany (22 years), before coming to the US. The words "I love you" carry a great commitment towards the person we say it too. I find in this country we say those words to anybody without contemplating the meaning of what we just said. I was literally shocked the first few years I lived here, how indiscriminately people said "I love you" and how it has lost its meaning. It certainly did not help my already crippled understanding and still ruffles my feathers every time I hear it.
Angie
-
For me anyway I never, beyond that point, ever trusted ANYONE who said "I love you". My reaction was usually "yea, right" and then giving them a good long look at my backside while walking away. As my grandmother would say to my siblings, "he doesn't trust your words, he MIGHT trust your actions". Sad really.
Gary,
Very well said! You can tell me all day long that you love me... I would much rather see the action behind those words. I am a German, born and raised in Germany (22 years), before coming to the US. The words "I love you" carry a great commitment towards the person we say it too. I find in this country we say those words to anybody without contemplating the meaning of what we just said. I was literally shocked the first few years I lived here, how indiscriminately people said "I love you" and how it has lost its meaning. It certainly did not help my already crippled understanding and still ruffles my feathers every time I hear it.
Angie
Hi Angie, I sincerely hope you do not take this the wrong way, or maybe it is I taking this the wrong way. I simply want to try and help.
You say, "You can tell me all day long that you love me... I would much rather see the action behind those words." But how would you know it if you were to see it? Because you also say, "It certainly did not help MY ALREADY CRIPPLED UNDERSTANDING and still ruffles my feathers every time I hear it." Im no hypocrite, because Im only just learning what true love is. I've never had that before I came here. True love is obeying God, and loving your neighbor as yourself. Be willing to do anything good for anyone, especially the brothers and sisters here. All I have to offer you all is praise, prayer and fellowship. These things you cannot see all the time, but I assure you I do it cause I love you and care about you, and most importantly because God commands it, Whom I MUST obey. Make no mistake, I'am not perfect either, I still struggle with hate often, but it is becoming less and less. Someday we will all be perfect, but not while we are in this flesh. It is good that you are here.
Much Love & Peace to you, G.Driggs
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
-
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
You are absolutely right... Would I even recognize if it was given to me? How warped is my definition of love? It scares me a bit to think about it. Maybe God is shaking it up for me?! I think Churchianity has not helped a bit in this respect. Teachings of "co-dependency" added more confusion. I am back to square one, just like when I first came here and had to forget everything I was ever taught in Church, i.e. Jesus the savior of a few and hell. I am taking baby steps and it is oh so painful. God is confronting me daily with my "conditional" loving. Getting saved is HARD!
I can add some scriptures to this:
Luke 6:28 Give blessing to those who give you curses, say prayers for those who are cruel to you.
Luke 6:35 Rather, love your enemies, help them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then you will have a great reward. You will be the children of the Most High God. After all, he is kind to unthankful and evil people.
-
For me anyway I never, beyond that point, ever trusted ANYONE who said "I love you". My reaction was usually "yea, right" and then giving them a good long look at my backside while walking away. As my grandmother would say to my siblings, "he doesn't trust your words, he MIGHT trust your actions". Sad really.
Gary,
Very well said! You can tell me all day long that you love me... I would much rather see the action behind those words. I am a German, born and raised in Germany (22 years), before coming to the US. The words "I love you" carry a great commitment towards the person we say it too. I find in this country we say those words to anybody without contemplating the meaning of what we just said. I was literally shocked the first few years I lived here, how indiscriminately people said "I love you" and how it has lost its meaning. It certainly did not help my already crippled understanding and still ruffles my feathers every time I hear it.
Angie
Hi Angie, I sincerely hope you do not take this the wrong way, or maybe it is I taking this the wrong way. I simply want to try and help.
You say, "You can tell me all day long that you love me... I would much rather see the action behind those words." But how would you know it if you were to see it?
Much Love & Peace to you, G.Driggs
It wasn't my intention to turn this thread into a testimonial thread, just so everyone knows. G.Driggs, I know your statement is intended for Firefly and I'm sure she will provide her own answer. But your question begs a perpendicular view. That's not a problem. For those who have never really known "love" from a parental sense as in the case of Firefly and many, many others, KNOWING love when you see it is a challenge AND no prior training ground. That's a problem. FEELING love accompanys that very challenge. Same lack of training, same no training ground. To me they go hand in hand. And then we come to the Lord. He offers his love freely, true. But until he opens our hearts to understand his love, it's beyond our measure of understanding. In even the smallest sense. Faith. Trust. These things come from him. Our efforts fail. Period. Since he grows us according to his will, not ours, perhaps he hasn't opened yet that understanding fully and giving us "baby steps" because that's all we can take for now.
Back to Ray Smith.
The beauty of Ray's teachings. He takes matters of Christ and teaches in a manner that understanding begins to sprout. Love is no doubt one of them. For some like myself Ray and his teachings are a God-send.
I hope I'm making sense and not just wandering off.
Gary
-
That makes sense Gary, and sometimes love is just a word that we throw around. God is where the deep abiding love is, none of us can fully appreciate that love until we understand that no human can fill that place in our heart that belongs to God. Human parents can mess up so badly it's almost beyond repair, but then God fills that space left empty by human parents, too! If we could just grasp the love of God we would all "get it". We leave that to God He is the mender of broken hearts and wounded spirits...
Kathy
-
Here is a bit more about love and love of the truth. Every one has a story about their childhood, either bad or good. What we need to see is that all this is for learning and growing into the stature that GOD And Our Lord Jesus Christ, Have already determined that we will be.
GOD"S Will for us is much Greater and Better than our will for us can ever hope to grasp in this life.
Thus when we Pray, it is that: THY WILL BE DONE O' GOD.
Joh 3: 14-20 (CLV)
14 And, according as Moses exalts the serpent in the wilderness, thus must the Son of Mankind be exalted,
15 that everyone believing on Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."
16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."
17 For God does not dispatch His Son into the world that He should be judging the world, but that the world may be saved through Him."
18 He who is believing in Him is not being judged; yet he who is not believing has been judged already, for he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God."
19 Now this is the judging: that the light has come into the world, and men love the darkness rather than the light, for their acts were wicked."
20 For everyone who is committing bad things is hating the light and is not coming to the light, lest his acts may be exposed."
Joh 15: 12-16 (CLV)
12 This is My precept, that you be loving one another, according as I love you."
13 Greater love than this has no one, that anyone may be laying down his soul for his friends."
14 You are My friends, if you should be doing whatever I am directing you."
15 No longer am I terming you slaves, for the slave is not aware what his lord is doing. Yet I have declared you friends, for all that I hear from My Father I make known to you."
16 Not you choose Me, but I choose you, and I appoint you, that you may be going away and be bringing forth much fruit, and your fruit may be remaining, that anything whichsoever you should be requesting the Father in My name, He will be giving it to you."
1Jn 4: 15-21 (CLV)
15 Whoever should be avowing that Jesus is the Son of God, God is remaining in him, and he in God."
16 And we know and believe the love which God has in us. God is love, and he who is remaining in love is remaining in God, and God is remaining in him."
17 In this is love perfected with us, that we may have boldness in the day of judging, seeing that, according as He is, so are we also in this world."
18 Fear is not in love, but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love."
19 We are loving God, for He first loves us."
20 If anyone should be saying that "I am loving God,and should be hating his brother, he is a liar; for he who is not loving his brother whom he has seen can not be loving God Whom he has not seen."
21 And this precept have we from Him, that he who is loving God may be loving his brother also."
george :).
-
How do we obtain this love of truth, it is certainly not of self
The parable of the sower gives a clue
It is the good ground (where those are found who understand it”) - that is the heart in which the truth is readily received and set to use.
The four soils represented four types of hearts, notice that Jesus is said to have cried out to those who soil God has prepred
Luk 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit a hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure
Also
(John 7:16 - 19) Jesus answered them and said, ‘My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone wants to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?’”
It is God that is the driving force in us to want to do His will.
Gary and Firefly to add to what George said
Many of us come from dysfunctional families but as we grow we learn more that we are not to focus on ourselves any more ….we are to die to self… it does not matter that we are not loved
(1Jn 4:18) Love has in it no element of fear; but perfect love drives away fear, because fear involves pain, and if a man gives way to fear, there is something imperfect in his love.
(1Jn 4:19) We love because God first loved us.
Knowing that God really loves us, we therefore should not seek or depend on the love of any man/women rather
Php 2 :3: “Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.
Php 2:4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.”
(Php 2:5) b]Let the same disposition be in you which was in Christ Jesus.
Let us all strive to focus more on on Loving rather than being loved
Beloved
-
Let us all strive to focus more on on Loving rather than being loved
Beloved
Wow, this week has been a series of trials for me. This is exactly what God has been trying to get me to see this week. It does not matter what someone thinks of me. It matters what he knows. It does not matter if someone loves us, but if we love them. I should know this because my first love broke my heart and even raped me. But, I could not stop loving him. I am sure that it was God who enabled me to love him. The last words this boy told me when I broke up with him was that he hoped he could learn to love like me someday. Well, I found out after his death that he had been all over the United States helping people who had drug addictions and all kinds of things in there life. I know, he was seven day Adventist but had left over doctrine. I did find out he did not believe in hell. Now, I see I would have been without him and ill. God had a better plan for me and him. But, love never fails.
This week I have been hurt by something . I have been trying to get my Husbands families love for years. Well, they can only love who they want. Well, Beloved you are so right. It does not matter if they love me. It matters if I love them. After, all love never fails. As we can see in my above story.
I am blessed with my Husbands love, but even it is human love. The ultimate love , is when you can love those who hate and despice you. This is one of those wake up moments. We have Gods love and that is faithful and true. We , have it all. We have truths most of the world does not even know. They war and hate others not like them. We have the ultimate , and the world does too!
Thanks Beloved for those scriptures and the message from them. All Glory Be to God! Our Great Father of Love
In His Love,
Marlene
-
It is God that is the driving force in us to want to do His will.
(1Jn 4:19) We love because God first loved us.
Knowing that God really loves us, we therefore should not seek or depend on the love of any man/women rather
(Php 2:5) Let the same disposition be in you which was in Christ Jesus.
Let us all strive to focus more on on Loving rather than being loved
beloved,
the above words from your post reverberated in my ears like a bell in a belltower, ringing out "claudia, these words are for YOU in that this is how you must live your life before your unbelieving spouse."
thank you beloved carol. and thank God for His Spirit causing you to post those words.
claudia
-
Knowing that God really loves us, we therefore should not seek or depend on the love of any man/women rather
(Php 2:5) Let the same disposition be in you which was in Christ Jesus.
Let us all strive to focus more on on Loving rather than being loved
Claudia,
This is not easy... My flesh wants love to be reciprocated. Only God is able to help us to love unconditionally. My prayer is
Ephesians 3:17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
God has to do it in me and through me. He is the source that needs to fill me so I can give it out.
-
I just, wanted to add to this. We, are to become overcomers. This, in no way is to make light of the trials that God has given us from Birth on. Many, of us in here went to God with our childhood trials. Then, we may have forgot him. We were so clouded with these struggles as we got older. Everyone, reacts to things in different ways. Some, harden there heart. Some, give there heart and keep looking for love.
All, of these things become a part of us. Some, come out on top and some live in it all there life.
But, if we can see where all this is taking us. We can be overcomers. God has given us vision of where we were and where we are going. Many, hurt people of the world do not go to God . Many begin to hate him. We have something special here. We, know God Loves All and will Save All. Mostly, we know his Love is so great for each one of us. He led us in here. If, that is not Love then I don't know what Love is.
I think here we need to have compassion. We can share in here and listen to the broken hearted . But, only God is able to help them overcome the memories. This, is a part of our Beast. We don't want to let go of the memory. Kind of like licking our wounds. But, in here I see many people who have overcome there past. I believe, all the different people with all the different trials can overcome them by Gods Love for them. Also, if we are chosen
we will be able to have compassion on the ones we judge. God wants people who can look at the whole picture. People who can handle any given situation. I believe, God made us with the desire to be loved. That, is a good desire if we seek his Love.
In my church of many years. The Pastor once said, " Don't look up to Man cause he will disapoint you every time" That is one of the most true things I ever heard in a church.
Well, I have an 88 year old Mother. She lives with me now. She to this very day cannot get over the memories of my Father cheating and being abusive to
her. For a large part of my child hood I heard nothing but fighting. I hate to fight. I take things to God or ask for advice. She just won't. It is all up to God to deliver us from these hurts.
But, I can say each day being in here we learn every day that God is all we need.
Now, some learn quickly and others it takes more time. It is going to be that way if we are chosen. Some, will learn quick because there hearts are soft. Some, will learn slow because there hearts are harden. But, God is going to use how we overcome to help others overcome. But, we will have to learn compassion. I believe, God has my Mother here with me, so I can learn compassion.
I learnt alot this week from some personal trials. Love, is moving on from the pain. Love is looking at the pain in others life and having compassion on them.
God has my Mom right where he wants her. He has us right where he wants us.
Well, God is teaching me compassion.
My Mother lives in her past. I want to live in my future. My future is where God is. God is Love. He is longsuffering. Well, I am learning to be the same. In a way he has me helping my Mother now. If, I can show her I can move on. I will be a light to her. Maybe,before something happens she will be able to get over the pain. If, not she will.
How, can we help others if we cannot rise above our pain. We can't. When, we take our eyes off God, then we are not able to give love, compassion, or learn mercy or longsuffering.
We share here. We are all in this battle.
In His Love,
Marlene
-
i just wanted to thank all who posted in this thread. this has been one of the most BEAUTIFULLY TRUE, & HEALING things i have ever read. we all live with a measure of pain, all from different sources, but nothing is too hard for God. He is our healer and our comfort, if we would just keep our eyes on Him.
thankyou, thankyou, thankyou,
lauriellen
-
Amen Marlene.
Joh 15: 16-18 (MKJV)
16 You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you and ordained you that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain; that whatever you shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it to you.
17 These things I command you, that you love one another.
18 If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
george. :)
-
How do we obtain this love of truth, it is certainly not of self
Gary and Firefly to add to what George said
Many of us come from dysfunctional families but as we grow we learn more that we are not to focus on ourselves any more ….we are to die to self… it does not matter that we are not loved
Beloved
Beloved, I couldn't agree with you more. My point in that segment of this thread was merely to point out that sometimes coming from a dysfuntional family makes for difficult to learn love and trust........on a worldly level, and yes perhaps on the converted level as well. Now, if I understand correctly to "die to self" is nothing that can be accomplished on our own since we are carnal by nature. That is a transformation that only Christ in us can do. But until that occurs, by his will, that transformation will NOT occur and we remain steadfast on wanting to receive love from the world. Growing up in a dysfuntional family is not some "story" that everyone has at one time or another in their childhood and "events" that we should simply "get over" by our own will. No, it's often lifetime baggage. People from dysfuntional families live their entire lives attempting to shed low self esteem, understanding how to care, and understanding love and how to give it, and receive it. So when the holy spirit comes into a person of that caliber is that transformation absolutely "immediate"? No, it isn't, not in my assessment. And I could certainly be wrong. My point is...and was... that the growing in that area takes some time. It's one thing to say "die to self", it's an entirely another to accomplish that feat and even with that it certainly is no achievement we can claim and boast of. I know YOU know these things. It really isn't you I'm writing to, more so to me and others like me who have not had the pleasure of content and intact families as their childhood progressed.
I hope you understand. And if I'm incorrect in my assessment, by all means, gently provide correction and I'll stretch even further, God willing, to understand and grow. Because at this point I'm looking at myself and wondering two things: if Christ is in me at all why can't I get past some things and "die to self" from events that happened in my early childhood that so affected my life; and another is: perhaps I have "head knowledge" only of who Christ is and what he was sent to accomplish. If either is true I shouldn't be wasting time learning of the things of God and Christ, or being a member of this forum.
Head knowledge is a good thing. But so is heart knowledge.
Gary
-
So when the holy spirit comes into a person of that caliber is that transformation absolutely "immediate"? No, it isn't, not in my assessment. And I could certainly be wrong. My point is...and was... that the growing in that area takes some time. It's one thing to say "die to self", it's an entirely another to accomplish that feat and even with that it certainly is no achievement we can claim and boast of.
No Gary, you're not wrong at all...there is no such thing as instant patience, repentance, love or any other fruit of the spirit.
Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Eph 5:8-10 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
1 Cor 15:22-23 For as in Adam all die [including dying to self] , even so in Christ shall all be made alive. [Gk. quickened or vivified] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Ecc 1:1-8
1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
Like you said Gary, these all come in His appointed time.
Marques
-
Gary and others the original post that you express this loyalty in. This i believe is a hope that Christ has place in you ( meaning a place in your being, of God) not the hope of the world that disappoints but the anticipation of what is to come in Him. We are helpless without Him, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ we are born in the damned nature disappoints and beatings come We all do have our stories but every thing works together for the Good of them that love the Lord and call according to His purposed. Jesus word says He is the author and the finisher of our faith Praise God He will do what he set out to do and WE will not be disappointed MY personal trials or affection although I cry out at the time have taught me the most. I wonder what happen to shadrach ect after they got thrown into the firer! My God! how life changing was that!
Jesus is loyal Jesus is faithful. i can trust Him much more than i can trust myself Wasn't Paul; saying he couldn't put his trust in himself but in Christ? peggy
-
Gary,
Thanks for your explanation, I could not have said it any better. I have all this head knowledge and so desperately want it to be heart knowledge. I have to trust God's timing.
Do you ever feel like you hit a brick wall in your spiritual growth and you are confronted with the same problem or challenge over and over and over again, seemingly not learning anything from it? If the proverbial brick wall was real, I would exhibit some very severe bruising. I understand you completely!
Angie
-
at this point I'm looking at myself and wondering two things: if Christ is in me at all why can't I get past some things and "die to self" from events that happened in my early childhood that so affected my life; and another is: perhaps I have "head knowledge" only of who Christ is and what he was sent to accomplish. If either is true I shouldn't be wasting time learning of the things of God and Christ, or being a member of this forum.
dear gary,
learning of the things of God and Christ is NEVER a waste of time. you have been shown many, many Truths of His Spirit by reading through ray's teachings and by reading all the threads and posts on this forum. you know that it was God who lead you here. learning of the things of God and Christ is necessary in order to be able to be shown the Truths of the Scriptures. AND for sure you are not wasting time being a member of this forum. as i mentioned already, GOD lead you here. and we love you. your past post contributions are a testament that His Spirit is working in you. Christ is in you gary, and you are in Christ. as marques and others have stated, replacing (carnal) head knowledge with a knowledge of His Truths takes time. it took years of dysfunction to put the scars on your heart and in your mind. although God could transform you in a moment, it is His will to do it otherwise. as ray has said before, overcoming can take our whole lifetime to achieve. BUT, we cannot stop yearning for and searching for His Truths.
i love you my brother gary,
claudia
-
Gary, and even after you are mostly dead to carnality there will arise the beast again and again. Just know "IT" for what it is and suffer through it, pray you will not offend God during this time. "IT" will pretend to have died until it gets one little access into our minds. That's why I pray for God to guard my mind and heart. I said the other day I thought I would have to have a silver stake driven through my heart to end this torment at times. Judy
-
Gary, and even after you are mostly dead to carnality there will arise the beast again and again. Just know "IT" for what it is and suffer through it, pray you will not offend God during this time. "IT" will pretend to have died until it gets one little access into our minds. That's why I pray for God to guard my mind and heart. I said the other day I thought I would have to have a silver stake driven through my heart to end this torment at times. Judy
So very true Judy, even after a year of reading Rays papers, Scriptures and the post here this beast of mine continues to arise. Sometimes I wish for death, or that I was not even born. Thanks Judy. :-[
G.Driggs
-
George, Gary and all,
Sometimes I think God is moving in all of us because we are all going through these things. I think we need to pull close and pray for each other all the more!
Kathy :)
-
Hebrews 4:9-11 (New American Standard Bible)
9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
I learned that the work in me was God's work and I learned to rest. When I first started learning I used to toss and turn in my sleep and was told I was talking in my sleep about rest. I was striving to rest. I had my eyes on the beast and couldn't stand living with it. I was also afraid because I knew I wasn't ok the way I was. The one thing that forced me into rest is when I saw just how huge the beast was and knew without a doubt that I had no power what so ever to do anything about it. I knew that God and only God could take care of it. I surrendered.
Matthew 19
25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
I had a terrible childhood with domestic violence. I was the family scapegoat and hated by all. I was raped when I was 10 years old. This all left me with gaping holes that I desperately wanted to fill. I wasn't able to have a stable relationship. I was physically abused. My husband took his own life. I blocked out the memories of the rape and other abuse so I didn't even remember what it was to even try to work on it. All I knew is that I was full of sin and didn't have the will power to fix or stop any of it. God pulled me out of the church and I was beginning to see the lies I had been taught. All I knew was that there was no free will and I was the beast.
Proverbs 20:
27 The lamp of the LORD searches the spirit of a man ;
it searches out his inmost being.
I was full of pain and cried every day for at least 20 years. One day someone told me I should just stop crying. I told them I had tried everything and couldn't make the pain go away. In an instant God brought back a childhood memory and I felt like 2000 pounds of emotional pain had been healed instantly.
For the next 5 years God kept bringing all the hidden things to the surface. At the same time he was revealing the truth to me. Know the truth and the truth will set you free. It set me free from most of the dysfunctional behaviors and emotional pain. I must say it was quite terrifying reliving all those painful memories that I had blocked, but I was ok because I knew it was God doing it. He was working the truth into me and exposing the lies that held me captive to sin.
I still have PTSD from all the trauma, but I know that this too is being used by God as trials that mold me into the image of his son. The hardships I've gone through since then are incredible.
Romans 5:
2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope.
1 Peter 4
1Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. 2As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.
Isaiah 30:18
Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you; he rises to show you compassion. For the LORD is a God of justice. Blessed are all who wait for him!
-
Hebrews 4:9-11 (New American Standard Bible)
9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
I learned that the work in me was God's work and I learned to rest. When I first started learning I used to toss and turn in my sleep and was told I was talking in my sleep about rest. I was striving to rest. I had my eyes on the beast and couldn't stand living with it. I was also afraid because I knew I wasn't ok the way I was. The one thing that forced me into rest is when I saw just how huge the beast was and knew without a doubt that I had no power what so ever to do anything about it. I knew that God and only God could take care of it. I surrendered.
Gary, Angie,
I will side with M.G, this is exactly where we need to be always. As Ray has taught, keep The Sabbath All day Every day (IN THE SPIRIT), and you will then rest from all the worrying about self and place.
This too is vanity, and a waste of the little time we have in this life. Hold fast to the things that you have been taught By The Holy Spirit and keep your eyes on our Lord And Saviour Jesus Christ, Who Is The Righteousness of us all.
HOW MANY DAYS DO WE ENTER INTO GOD’S REST
Excerpt from Keeping Sabbath: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6310.msg50887.html#msg50887
So people ask me about everything from circumcision to fasting, Passover, the Lord’s supper, baptism and all these things. They ask me a lot, ‘do you keep the Sabbath day.’ In other words do I stop working and stop doing everything on Friday night until Sat. night, don’t go anywhere, don’t do anything, just study and pray or whatever and go to church.
So they say, ‘do you keep the Sabbath?’ I say absolutely, everyday of the week. They don’t know what to make of that. I keep the Sabbath everyday of the week. How do I keep the Sabbath everyday of the week? Because I know what the Sabbath means. If you know what the Sabbath means, you can not possibly keep it on Saturday only, you can’t. If you know what it means and you do it on Saturday only, it’s proof that you don’t know what it means. And I’ll show you that. If you can’t keep the Sabbath on everyday, then you are not keeping the Sabbath in the spirit of truth at all.
Further you can’t do any of these things. We’ll go through these things, the Lord’s supper, communion, what the Catholics call mass and so on.
Now the Catholics do keep mass, at least the big churches have it everyday. But especially in the Protestant world, some keep it just once a year, not too many and some every six months, and some once a month.
I was a Methodist and we kept it four times a year. Why four times? Well they thought that was a good amount of times. Why, what was it based on? Nothing, just human reasoning.
Some keep it once a week on Sunday. Why do they do that? Because they don’t know what it means or not only would they keep it everyday, like the Catholics do, but they would keep it all day. Not just everyday, but all day everyday. Everything in this Bible if all it is, is physical ritual, then it’s of no value to you and you are just a religious person.
george. ;D
-
Gary I understand what you have written I myself have been raised in orphanages and foster homes and can attest to the problem of "loving and being loved" so you are talking to the choir here.
In the past when asked why I was not married I would say "I could never put all my egos into one *******".
For most part we humans are occupied with Eros or Phileo type of love. It is only when our ears are opened that we truly become aware of the Agape Love of God. His Love is magnified more and more as we gain knowledge of His Way. The revelation of His word is like chocolate to our soul. Reread Rays paper on Love because it explains that God both Agape and Phileo his sons and daughter.
We in ourselves are incapable of love except in a selfish way. Many think that human parental love is unconditionalte. But is it really always so?
Children are a means of passing on our genes, they are only means of physical immortality, therefore they prolonging our own line, They are a means fulfilling goals or achieving sucess in areas that we failed in. They can be a vicarious enrichment of our own lives .
I love the line in one movie that a mother makes to her daughter.....I love you but I do not like you. The parental child bond is strongest because it is the closest physically to SELF. It is a biological mirror.
You are right because those of us without parental bonds were never the recipents of this "particular form of self love" . You are very right that it is a learned behavior.
Children on the other hand are natural at loving, they lose it as their self gains more knowlege and power. That is why a child can still love their abusive parents when they are at a younger age. Young children have that perfect state of trust.
Because we are in the infant stage spiritually, my point of my post was that we need to focus more on the Christ in us..like George said..He is the Love of truth and only He can change us and help us regain that childlike trust. It is a constant battle because that "ugly old dead man" is always there in the flesh, using our desire and fear to lead us off course.
Today I prayed that God would help me see the Love of God in each of my patients, well I was not very sucessful because I could not keep my little brain focused. On the way home I repented and all I can do is keep trying and praying.
I am beginning to understand endurance a little better recenly I heard this analagy. It is like being blindfolded and all you can see are your feet. You are told the goal is to climb a mountain peak. He is there calling you. We cannot see where we are going but He can see us. All we can do is follow His voice. if we fall we get back up. We do not know where we are but he always does. He is able to We have to keep going because h will keep us from falling in ravines and we just have to trust Him to get us up there.
Beloved
-
This has been an amazing thread and I am sad and glad at the same time to know that we have many very painful experiences in common; we are not alone and are all in this together.
PTSD, domestic violence, sexual assault, emotional abuse... all of it helps us to be more compassionate and loving. Yes, God is the ONLY ONE who can heal those wounds... going back and revisiting some of those painful events in our lives is hard and heart wrenching. I feel for all of you because I have been there and am still there at times. If God doesn't do it, it cannot be done and coming to a place of rest and acceptance of His timing is very hard for some of us. I am one of the movers and shakers and like to see results. Naaaah, that's not how God is doing it in me. Sometimes I feel like I am choking when I see the sinister side of me and am so helpless to change it. I am broken about my sinfulness.
Thank you all for your transparency and honesty; it is so very much appreciated.
Angie
-
This has been an amazing thread Angie
Indeed it has. So many personalities have been shown, so much heartache, so much overcoming, so much bravery of heart and emotional scars being shown as becoming healed. So much sharing.
More importantly so much loyalty TO Christ and even in that nothing boasted because that loyalty was in him first and with compassion provided to us. Yes that is AMAZING!.
No need to quote a scripture here as the scriptures already provided from many are needle on. Leadership. And I admire all of it.
For me personally one of the many things I've learned through Ray's teachings is that everyone deserves a measure of mercy and forgiveness as our Lord so does over and over. So even now with as much hatred as I've carried for many years against my birth parents I'm finding a corner of my own heart where forgiveness is growing.
Ray explained it perfectly and the Lord is working it in his perfect time. Amazing indeed.
~S~! all.
Gary
-
A lesson i have learned, desire Mercy and Justice, but Mercy over Justice and do the same to your neighbor. This is exactly what GOD IS DOING for each and every person (sinners All) who justifiably deserve death.
Zec 7: 8-10 (GNB)
8 The LORD gave this message to Zechariah:
9 "Long ago I gave these commands to my people: 'You must see that justice is done, and must show kindness and mercy to one another.
10 Do not oppress widows, orphans, foreigners who live among you, or anyone else in need. And do not plan ways of harming one another.'
Witness
Mat 23:23 (GNB)
"How terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You give to God one tenth even of the seasoning herbs, such as mint, dill, and cumin, but you neglect to obey the really important teachings of the Law, such as justice and mercy and honesty. These you should practice, without neglecting the others.
george. :)
-
So even now with as much hatred as I've carried for many years against my birth parents I'm finding a corner of my own heart where forgiveness is growing.
Gary,
That's good... sometimes forgiveness doesn't come fast and easy, it does take time for your heart to catch up to your head, depending on the severity of the transgression.
I love both of my parents now. My mother left me when I was 5 years old to get married to a man who's catholic upbringing and family considered me a b*****d child and therefore non-existent, my father I never knew personally. My mom and I never "reconciled". She wanted a daughter when I turned into a young adult; at that time she was a stranger to me and it was only for her wanting to "show me off" to her friends. She died very young (42), and at that time had pretty much alienated all of her children and family. I am not sure if my father is still alive. I initiated several contacts since I moved to the States, but the German pride on my father's side and family prevented it from ever happening. This is still one of those unfulfilled "desires of my heart"... God knows! One thing that I found out from my aunt is the fact that my mom and dad loved each other; it brought some healing to my heart. However, the "fallout" of being abandoned is still ours to carry and deal with God's help and grace. Psalm 27:10 "Though my father and mother forsake me, the LORD will receive me." is of comfort to me.
Angie
-
Psalm 27:10 "Though my father and mother forsake me, the LORD will receive me." is of comfort to me.
Angie
Wow you cling to this too Angie!? Once when a sister visited, she was looking through a little book I had with the promises of God in it, and I had this one underlined. She and her husband looked at each other and she said ,I see you feel the same as me. Meaning the feeling of abandonment and her not wanting to have anything to do with us.
meee
-
Wow you cling to this too Angie!? Once when a sister visited, she was looking through a little book I had with the promises of God in it, and I had this one underlined. She and her husband looked at each other and she said ,I see you feel the same as me. Meaning the feeling of abandonment and her not wanting to have anything to do with us.
meee
Yes, I cling to this too, meee. ;)