bible-truths.com/forums
=> General Discussions => Topic started by: hebrewroots98 on March 18, 2007, 04:19:13 PM
-
Dear Brethren, I AM SICK TO MY STOMACHE OVER WHAT I JUST READ ON MY LOCAL HOMESCHOOL SUPPORT GROUP THAT I AM A MEMEBER OF....THE DIRECTOR OF THE PLAY (A HS MOM) HAS JUST PUT OUT THE FOLLOWING INVITAION (THROUGH EMAIL) FOR ALL OF US LUBBOCK HOMESCHOOLERS TO COME AND WATCH THIS PLAY THAT WILL BE PERFORMED BY (4TH TO 10TH GRADE HOMESCHOOLERS)... THAT IS CALLED...
"THE HABITATION OF VANITIES"
SHE has put a literal disclaimer out stating the following:
"**DISCLAIMER: THE WORD "HELL" IS USED IN THE DIALOG TRHOUGHOUT THE PLAY IN REFERENCE TO CONTEXT TO HELL MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE. THIS PLAY ALSO DEALS WITH DEATH AND AFTERLIFE. MAY NOT BE ACCEPTABLE FOR YOUNG AUDIENCE."
This has caused me to be in a whirlwind of emotions and thoughts, so I thank God that I had a very good discussion with my DH! (And, THANK YOU JOE for the scriptures that you had posted just earlier about us being A PECULIAR PEOPLE UNTO GOD! That was perfect timing for me to read, WOW. Right now my flesh just wants to goand confront each homeschool mother who has allowed their kids to be in this play, but, I am praying for HIS guidance through this little detour in my homeschooling affairs. This mother who directs the plays each year does an OUTSTANDING job, she is meticulous and always uses the same kids as her actors and they always end up winning the local competition against other drama groups (public schoolers) and she always ends up going to state competition and even wins there. This saddens me emensly that she will be so good at getting this kind of crap out there for all to see, but,at the same time, I know that it is all in HIS plans. I have mixed thoughts about how to handle this to confront her w/ the true etymology of the word HELL, or to just shut my mouth right now. These plays are her pride and joy and alot of the mothers in my HS group do know that SUSAN DOES NOT BELIEVE IN HELL...so I feel that this was directed to me, b/c I am the only one in the HS group that I know of who doesn't believe int the HEll thing! They are waiting for my response, I am certain! (I did not know that this was in the works all of this time...Last year she put on a CW LEWIS play (The lion, whitch, wardrobe"...and she saw me cry at the beauty of it (b/c Yeshua was portrayed so wonderfully), now I am certain that they are all on the defense...awaiting my response...) I am more concerned at how I deal with these people b/c I will be around them for years to come (perhaps) and i want to do the loving thing and not come down on them in an unloving way.
Any input is welcome and needed!!! Thanks ahead of time everyone; you all mean everything to me!!!! (I have a feeling that my family is going to get even further separated from the world from this...) One last thing...When one joins this 'christian' homeschool group, one must agree simply with believing in Jesus, GOd, Holy Spirit, which I have been with now for 3 years; and the 'president' of this group takes great pride in telling others that this group does not discriminate against believers who have differing positions of theology( ha, I am the only one in the group that thinks differently than all the others) or that we have no cliques in this HS group...both of which are untrue!! (Daniel and I have been so ostricized by these peoples' lack of unity with us, not by their words, but their actions of want nothing to do with us unless they just have to show up at the same event with us!!!) I know that they see us as a PECULIAR PEOPLE/FAMILY and so BARUCH HASHEM!!!! i MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT....but it sure is growing pains right now ;) ;) ::)
I love you all!!!
-
Here is Ray's response to a recent e-mail. Good luck...
Dear Julie:
I don't really know what I can say. Yours is not the first email that I have received like this. You pretty much answered your own question. You will not change the Synagogue of Satan. You will not teach the Synagogue of Satan. You will not convert the Synagogue of Satan. We are to "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE" (Rev. 18:4), and James tells us to "Submit yourselves therefore to God. RESIST THE DEVIL, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7). We cannot embrace the Synagogue of Satan and expect anything more than you have received. On the other hand, there would be dozens of Churches who would read your email and tell you to join with them, as they have TWO SOUP kitchens feeding the poor and hungry daily. You would then starve to death spiritually, but at least you would have hot soup every day. So as I said, Julie, I don't know what to tell you. I teach and counsel people as I am able. I have no soup kitchen, no orphanage in Haiti, no TV or Radio broadcasts, no social services program, and a zero budget for any such thing. I do what I do, the best I can do, and that's about all I can do. You are welcome with open arms to join our Forum and be a part of what we believe. Other than that, I am just one man who tries to write on difficult subjects and try to make them easy to understand, and I answer thousands of emails. That's about all I can offer along with my prayers for your welfare and spiritual growth.
God be with you,
Ray
with love
Scott
-
Dear Susan
It is exactly what you say it is.....growing pains....YOUR growing pains! Rejoice….and not to put them down because without them this contrast of them how would you see or know you were GROWING? YOU are growing and they are not... just not now..not yet...but for you, like the OT...for you and your admonition.
Hope this helps just a little to ease the pain. You should be happy. ;D I know it is sore...so I will be happy for you. I am sure you will do just fine. That will probabley help them to grow....you doing fine that is!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
-
Susan,
I read the post that you had written, and to think about that play being put on leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Avoid it like the plague.
<shakes head at some of the stupidity that goes on in the world.>
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
-
Don't feel bad Susan. Not that you should. Your family in God is here. ;D 8) ;D
The whole world one day will understand but untill them you are a light in darkness. You have been pulled out of the world, and givin blessings far greater than most.
God bless you and your stand for the truth.
Blessings and understanding to you my sister.
Randy 8)
-
Randy,
ABSOLUTELY YOU ALL ARE MY FAMILY....NO DOUBTS ABOUT IT ;D (THANK YOU LORD :D)
Yes, I am a light in the darkness, it is just that sometimes I am not sure when to open my mouth and when to shut it...the Holy spriit will have to lead here!
Baruch HaShem (praise God) that He has given me some AWESOME BLESSINGS AND TRUTHS to experience in this life.
blessings and Shalom to you too Randy!
-
God be with you, Susan.
Perhaps God wants to use you as a witness to them at this point, perhaps not. Continue in the same way you have started, pray for His guidance and that His will be done, and you can't go wrong! Keep on doing what you are doing, it's a lonely walk, but it's the right thing to do.
By the way... What is the purpose of this play? To teach about the afterlife? What is the point? If it's not acceptable for a young audience, then how can it be played by a young group of people?
God bless you,
Eirik
-
I thought that too Eirik. Also Susan what do you want to do w/ this group, how important is it to you-very imp?? then say nothing. Not too imp- then why have anything to do w/ it.
I taught in a "christian School" for 11 years. I was one of the few pentecostal/charismatic....etc in this "evangelical" school. If any of you know about your kitchen cabinets-Merillat-Mr. Merillat himself had the school built so his granddaughters wouldn't have to go to school w/ the riff raff. He was United Brethern-but the school was to be non-denominational but definately conservative. My kids went there as well. Sometimes I wanted to bang my head against the wall. I kept a low profile and didn't do anything obnoxious (I don't think). We had "devotions" every morning before the kids came. On Fridays, each teacher took a turn to do the "devotions".Ugh, What a snore-fest. Even the few charismatics kept their devotions middle of the road. When my kids got up into HS I had real lproblems w/ the bible teacher. He was a 'Hyper-Calvinist" and my kids had to turn in papers w/ his beliefs to get a passing grade. My kids were to put at the bottom (this is not what I believe). I would storm down that hall like a mad woman half the time to confront him (Now he teaches at Moody in Chicago). Well I digress.
The point- did I want that job enough to put up w/ junk I didn't believe in? Did I want the kids in that school? Yes. When my youngest was out of there I "retired". I started subbing until I got in where I teach now. Now, looking back, I shouldn't have worried about so much of their stuff- Most of it was "adiafra"- didn't matter. They were all basically nice people and just doing their job the best they could-for no benefits and a lot less money than public school teachers.
You are astute in the ways of the world Susan. You will hear God and do His Will. Don't worry about it. God trusts you w/ Daniel.
-
Hi Susan,
I can understand why this would cause you to have a whirlwind of emotion. I think you have gotten some good advice here.
Like you said it is growing pains that is to be expected as we walk with the Lord.
It is not going to help for you to give them a lecture on why there is no hell. You can't change them, only God can open their eyes. If this group is important to you I would just separate yourself from this activity. I wouldn't say anything, especially if they already know that you don't believe in Hell. If they have questions let them come to you.
It just might be that the contrast of having this play and you not believing in Hell will make them question this teaching themselves.
I pray that God gives you wisdom in this situation and I thank Him because I know He will. ;)
-
Susan:
Maybe you should check out whether or not it was directed at you. If it wasn't, then don't worry about it..just Christendom doing nonsense, and stick to your guns. If it was, then know your little persecution will only make you stronger. But I would check it out, perhaps from the driector, since it seems to bother you that it might.--Deb aka snorky
-
Hello everyone.
Thank you so much for your insight! Right now the problem is that these kids are pretty much Daniels' only social life; with the exception of a few aquaintances from the neighborhood, boy scouts, karate, and baby David. (We have NO family that is totally committed to him and he is an only child (due to the fact that his 5 grown siblings are not there for him either.) I am not trying to embrace their ways, I just hoped to have their home schooling support for Daniel to be able to relate to other HS kids as well as to have social opportunities with his peers...in which he used to have b/f they understood our religious differences.) (They have shunned him and he knows it; they lliterally know (by me telling them) that they are pretty much all he has and they still don't care; he is very young to have to bear the loneliness issue here, b/c he knows no other child of his age who believes as he does.) We have just tried to not dwell on it, and to have fun within our little family of three on every occassion that we can.
(and as you say Arcturus...smile and be happy for this lot and that hopefully they will see that whatever they do will not affect my happiness, which in turn will help them to grow spiritually.)
Erik, and Gena, (I am waiting for the Lord to reveal the answer to me about speaking up right now or not; for now I'll say nothing till I feel prompted to do so. btw, Good observation...this play is for teens and above, and yet the director must think that 'her' kids are mature enough to handle the hell issue (I know that the parents of some of them have discussed hell with these kids and Hell, is all they know and they are very comfortable with hell!) They are trying to cause fear in everyone to get them to see how their current life is effecting their eternal destiny. ;) They LIVE to EVANGELIZE (alot of them are Methodists); the directors' son is going to be a 'missionary' in a couple of years.
Gena, my DH thinks that I should drop them b/c he thinks that they are not helping with Daniels' academia (which he is correct), but, the social interaction is what I am looking at, even if it is just surface relationships for him to have right now. :-\ 'snore fest', now that's cute! (...I LIKE THE IDEA OF WRITING ON THE BOTTOM OF THEIR PAPERS...'THIS IS NOT WHAT I BELIEVE'. And now that you said this, MAYBE God wants Daniel to be there (and for me to guide his understanding of the religious differences dynamics) in order for Daniel to learn how to speak up for his religious beliefs to these other kids; (infact, he has already done that on many occassions.) He is actually getting quite good at it.) Oh, Gena, I needed to hear that about thank you for your vote of confidence and for encouraging me to not worry (lol, I truly noticed more gray hairs today ::)
Good advice Paula, separate myself from this play and let them come to me and ask their questions (this is a big test for me, obvioulsy.) DH stated that if I DO go to the play that I
-
Hello everyone; I AM SORRY, I HAD POSTED ACCIDENTALLY ON THE PREVIOUS POST HERE, BEFORE I WAS FINISHED WRITING ....(PLEASE JUST PICK UP WHERE I LEFT OFF AT ) ::) ;)
Thank you so much for your insight! Right now the problem is that these kids are pretty much Daniels' only social life; with the exception of a few aquaintances from the neighborhood, boy scouts, karate, and baby David. (We have NO family that is totally committed to him and he is an only child (due to the fact that his 5 grown siblings are not there for him either.) I am not trying to embrace their ways, I just hoped to have their home schooling support for Daniel to be able to relate to other HS kids as well as to have social opportunities with his peers...in which he used to have b/f they understood our religious differences.) (They have shunned him and he knows it; they lliterally know (by me telling them) that they are pretty much all he has and they still don't care; he is very young to have to bear the loneliness issue here, b/c he knows no other child of his age who believes as he does.) We have just tried to not dwell on it, and to have fun within our little family of three on every occassion that we can.
(and as you say Arcturus...smile and be happy for this lot and that hopefully they will see that whatever they do will not affect my happiness, which in turn will help them to grow spiritually.)
Erik, and Gena, (I am waiting for the Lord to reveal the answer to me about speaking up right now or not; for now I'll say nothing till I feel prompted to do so. btw, Good observation...this play is for teens and above, and yet the director must think that 'her' kids are mature enough to handle the hell issue (I know that the parents of some of them have discussed hell with these kids and Hell, is all they know and they are very comfortable with hell!) They are trying to cause fear in everyone to get them to see how their current life is effecting their eternal destiny. ;) They LIVE to EVANGELIZE (alot of them are Methodists); the directors' son is going to be a 'missionary' in a couple of years.
Gena, my DH thinks that I should drop them b/c he thinks that they are not helping with Daniels' academia (which he is correct), but, the social interaction is what I am looking at, even if it is just surface relationships for him to have right now. :-\ 'snore fest', now that's cute! (...I LIKE THE IDEA OF WRITING ON THE BOTTOM OF THEIR PAPERS...'THIS IS NOT WHAT I BELIEVE'. And now that you said this, MAYBE God wants Daniel to be there (and for me to guide his understanding of the religious differences dynamics) in order for Daniel to learn how to speak up for his religious beliefs to these other kids; (infact, he has already done that on many occassions.) He is actually getting quite good at it.) Oh, Gena, I needed to hear that about thank you for your vote of confidence and for encouraging me to not worry (lol, I truly noticed more gray hairs today ::)
Good advice Paula, separate myself from this play and let them come to me and ask their questions (this is a big test for me, obvioulsy.) DH stated that if I DO go to the play that I should say nothing more than a critique on the stagecraft and design, the actors and costumes, etc...but I don't think that I could stop at that and not say more to try to convince them otherwise!)
Hi Deb, I know for a fact that they have watched me go from all kinds of changes and they judged me as being flighty and that Ibeing MESSIANIC to now a 'NO HELL BELIEVER' and they think that b/c I have been sick and gained some weight, exhausted, financially poor, no real college degree (although I went to seminary in an accelerated private school that taught us more bible (in 3 yrs than I could get as a bible major at the local affiliated university!) (ill due to a diagnoses 2 yrs ago w/ Gulf war syndrom)
(lol, they would really flip if they knew all of the topics that all of us here believe as written in this site.)
-
Susan,
My opionion of the homeschool group is dropping quite fast. Now, I am not sure of what I am going to do. I know that God will show me in the end. I have seen some of these kids and am not sure of whether I wish my little one to get involved in, these kids for some reason have struck me as being very spiteful and spoiled. Your Daniel is an exception.
Well let us know how things work out, I am going to finish the forum and get some sleep.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
-
Anee,
Do not let these children or families cause you to reconsider hsing. You can still hs and just do it dif than I did. Talk to ya later.
-
Susan,
Thanks so much for the words of encouragment. I needed them.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
-
Susan:
I agree, don't stop homeschooling...but by you rother posts it seems it was directed at you if not your son. If they are snobbish or whatever to him, then maybe distancing yourselves from this group would be better. Are there other homeschool groups in your area? Or you can just participate in one or two events. Our HS group covers a very large area and extends about 100 mile radius in the Big Bend area. there are 30 or so families of all denominations, non-denominations, Catholics, charismatics, fundamentalists, you name it, as well as non-church goers. Since most of the meetings are held in a town 50 miles away (Alpine, where most of the families are) we don't do much with them. We ourselves do the Geography Bee and the Project Fair every year and that's about it. The families in the Ft. Davis area are more likely to be less "churchy" and more Biblically truthful based, but of course the "hell" issue is still a stumbling block for them. I don't know about the ones in Alpine but the folks in Ft. Davis have never really made too much of a big deal about "hell." Your situation, having a child that is pretty much shunned, shouldn't discourage you too much. In the mountains here my son and daughter pretty much had just themselves to hang with. Now that he's in college my girl misses him but she does okay and we do things with her. I hope this helps.--Deb
-
Deb,
I would never think of doing anything but home schooling (unless the Lord of cousre showed me otherwise.) Unfortunately this group says from their mouths that they reiceive ALL BELIEVERS IN CHRIST; but their hearts and actions show shunning and arrogance and self righteiousness and cliques. They will even smile and hug you in public and work with me and son in public, and I know for a fact that they have talked negatively about me to the others in the clique. They claim to accept all denominations (and they DO accept all denominations that you have spoken of, but, just not a Messianic believer (which I used to be), or a 'NO HELL BELIVER' ;),) but the truth is...THEY CAN'T HANDLE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS !! They all think that they are better than I just b/c they have a little formal education and money, and as I said before...I am not impressed with them and their education b/c their hearts are dark and unloving and hypocritical. I know their game, abut they don't know that. The WOMEN/MOPTHERS ar the ones whom have always tried to give Daniel a hard time; (their kids just don't notice a difference unless the parents told them to stay away from him. ) I JUST ATTRIBUTE IT TO THE FACT THAT ME AND DANIEL'S FIGHTS ARE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, BUT AGAINST THE SPIRITS IN THESE PEOPLE THAT DONT LIKE THE SPIRIT THAT IS IN US; thus I can't get away from this attitude in this world, it is everywhere! I willjust have toi live with it.
Really, Deb, I doubt that it would be any different to go to a different homeschool group here in the area or to a public school b/c the spiritual environment is exactly the same; just different classrooms. The WORLD is THE WORLD (CHRISTIANS ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM THE UNBELEIVING WORLD IN MY VIEWPOINT....B/C THEY ARE AGAINST THE TRUTH. SO, I AM 'IN' THE WORLD BUT NOT 'OF' THE WORLD ...So, I will stay where I am since I don't want my son in public schools, and I will just go for only the essential educational opportunities with the group and forget expecting to get close to them ...I was close before they knew my spiritual beliefs and then those relationships went down the drain. When they saw me change my religion, they began to think that I am spiritually UNSTABLE...(if they only knew of the rock solid foundation that I have received from above, they would be amazed!)
Yes, their animocity that is being directed to me and Daniel are b/c several of the women know that we no longer believe in hell since I told them so one on one; so they have collaborated this story between themselves about me and they just pretend to like me in public and then ignore me all other times. I even told the director of this group of how there are cliques and she didn't seem bothered by it enough to do anything about it. (Daniel was not invited to a Spanish class that most all of the other kids were in ...when I asked why I wasn't invited, I was told that she 'thought' that I couldn;t afford the class materials (when I could have), then we were not asked to do the language arts class (and no money was involved here... They were very secretive and manipulative with this co-op class where each parent assists.)
(ok, thank you for letting me vent...)
Talk with ya later,
-
I'm not certain whether this is pertinent to the conversation but Jesus said in Matthew 5:13 - Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm not certain that we should be striving always to be extreme separatist. Paul the apostle said in 1 Corinthians 9:22 - To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. We've got brethren out here that don't even know that they're brethren that need to be called out. Sometimes God plants us somewhere simply to plant seeds for the one or two. God knows who His are. Don't blow your cover.
-
It's amazing to see that there are those out there suffering the same alienation and shunning as me and my family. Me, my girls, and husband are shunned from our families and everybody else. It get's lonely at times. It's amazing to hear some of you alls testimony's here. We are indeed in the world but not of the world. Even when I use to try to fit in, I didn't fit in. I was never accepted by peers, acquaintance, and/or family except when someone needed something. Everyone knows I've always had a giving heart. I use to even would go without to help some of them, until I found out that some of them were talking about what a fool I am. It hurt. I never really knew that their are some literal mean and evil folks in the world. I really didn't have to look to much in the world, they were right in my family. I know Jesus said in Matthew 5:44 - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. Well, I really need THE HOLY SPIRIT after how I've been treated of the last decade and a half through loving folks. It wasn't something I had to work at, it was just there. I hope it hasn't waxed cold. I'm sorry. Now, I'm venting. I just never knew that there were such mean and cruel folks in the world, and a lot of them in organized religion.
-
Bev, I agree with you and I think your post is very pertinent! I do not want to be an extreme separatist either! Yes, definatley we are callled out to be the light to them that purposefully use us...and I have always struggled in this area. My spirit wants to be that light, but my body says...no way, i am not putting myself out there to be trampled on! I want to love all people and especially my enemies...God is using this very situation in my life to do exactly that with these HSers. You are right, there are possiblly a few that will listen and bleieve the truth,sbut, how will they listen unless someone is sent? How beautiful the feet of those that bring good tidings! I have my work cut out for me now ;)
I, too can relate to family being the first ones to use and abuse you. It does hurt; but I would never give up on them, and they are fianlly seeing Christ through me! Thanks Bev, I needed to hear this :D
-
I just never knew that there were such mean and cruel folks in the world, and a lot of them in organized religion.
I knew that there were mean and cruel folks in the world, I have seen it live and in person; I did not know that there were such mean and cruel folks in organized religion. Only after God drew me to B-T's were my eyes opened to just how mean and cruel Christendom is.
-
Makes you wonder why there are more Christians in jail (I think this statistic is for USAonly - I know Ray refered to this fact) than any other reiligion!
Susan - on what date is the play?
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
-
Hi Patrick,it's been ahwile since wev'e spoken...glad to hear from you :D. I, like you, never FULLY saw the meanness and cruelty either in the church people, until God pulled me out and opened my eyes. (Ironic??? that a guy (from the last congregation that we were in a year ago) just left my house and was talking about how he is having to take the ELDERS of that congregation to court b/c theydisfellowshipped him for 'wearing too much cologne" (no joke), and so when he was leaving he was going to take the many dozen padded chairs that he had purchased and had loaned to the church; well, the elders won't give the chairs, (as well as a few other items that are his) to him so he is now taking them to court...it is such a mess and so sad! They are saying that the chairs were given to church, not loaned! He is literally haivng to subpeona several in order to have some support!
You are right Arcturus, Ray did write about there being more prisons in this country than anywhere else. i had an opportunity to work at one just a few miles from here and I could'nt for two reasons; I don't believe in prisons in the way the US does them and I have to have alot of sunlight...and I am closterphobic (I need regualr doors to walk out of if I chose to. ::) ::) ::)
The date for the play is next Tuesday evening at 7pm!
Shalom to you too, dear sister.
-
Susan:
Read your reply and am amazed at their pettiness, even for believers in "hell for eternity"...remember the Saturday Night Live "Church Lady"? Not letting your son into language classes? That is not what might be called Christian behavior. They need to be prayed for! Shunning? Mothers telling their kids not to play with your son? Abominable! Trying to condescend because they think you are "poor"? I bet these folks are solid dyed-in-the-wool tithers, eh? Total Pharisee...it pains me to know they put you through that! But, God willing, a combination of how they treat you all and God opening their hearts will get maybe a few of them to discern God's agape love and get then to soften their hearts.
Nothing like this has ever happened to us, but (since in the mid and late 90s we definitely struggled financially, most of that our fault, until maybe three years ago, and now my husband makes a fairly decent income) there was a time when we weren't shunned but thought of as maybe "not as good" as the rest of the group. But then our son began to win geography bee chamionships and blue ribbons as the project fair, as well as "Best Notebook" one year and "Best Research" another year, and got accepted to Texas A & M (which I hear is not easy). So now they know my husband and I are serious. They also know we do not use the Bible Curriculum that comes with the rest of the courses (we use A Beka). A few of them (I think) know I at least believe in Universal Reconciliation...but on the other hand one of the local "substitute" preachers does also (I was amazed at the sermon he gave when I was still in the church I was in that he preached that, and debunked the rapture too. told him I wished he was our pastor!). Plus, if they did shun me I could care less since I barely ever see them (like I said most of the group lives in Alpine, 50 miles away.)
Sister, God help and comfort you all, and be strong in Christ!
Deb
-
Susan,
Hope all goes well. The Lubbock Home School Association is in my prayers, though I am not sure they will turn around, they seem to be caught up in the worldly things, and that cannot be my concern. Focus on what is more important you and Daniel and feed the group Fish heads. <grins>
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
-
Deb,
Thank you for your homeschooling input! (Oh yes, the Church Lady ;)) Yes, the HSers are using all kinds of excuses to keep their kids from Daniel; although they try to have alittle tolerance when they are view when in a public setting (rollerskating etc..). Yes, some of these mothers were 'together' for a couple years before they met me, so they are inseparable as well as their kids. (Oh yes, died in the wool tithers for sure...I even went to their church one time to the meeting that that they were holding on the financial program of Dave Ramseys'... which has caught on like wild fire in many churches in town...) Thankyou for understanding what I have been going through with this group, bu, I do not feel that God has given me the ok to leave just yet! This has been a thorn in my flesh for awhile, but I am just trying to know if HE wants me to do as you say Deb, possibly reach a soul or two? Of course they ike my presentation and only like me at those times.
Rodger,
I am very happy for you that you have no problems with this issue in your life, and I am glad that you are grown up in this area of spirituality; I have not arrived where you are yet, so please be patient with me as I try to put away childish things! Thank you for your input and Yes, that scripture blairs out to me to0; but, so does the scripture that says that we are to be the salt of the earth (thanks Bev) and to let our lights shine before men; so how do you see this? Obviously God has put me in this group and has not allowed me to leave yet for a reason...I am still trying to take HIS lead here.
blessings to all of you!
-
Rodger,
I am with you on the fact that I left the church just a year ago and I have no desire what so ever ot go back, ever join a church again, or ever have a denominational label over my head again. Some of my relatives and friends are still in church, but they know that I do not agree with them and that I am very confident in my stance. I tell them that I have never been happier, and they can see it! I am not and I do not want to be caught up in the evil that abounds in the churches either, I doesn't matter to me anymore of what goes on there...it is where satan dwells for sure. (and I too, haven't celebrated their pagan holidays in many, many years.) God has blessed me greatly to have come out of her
Good point with the compraison of what churches do today as being no different than what went on in the dark ages, the Salem witch hunts, and the holocaust, (what is McCartism?, did I miss something here?)
Yes, of course I will rebuke and try and teach those who are not teaching sound doctrine; but, the problem is, the homeschoolers are not talking scriptures with me, they will not get into it with me; the groups is all about schooling/education with me (not with others) ...we are just not good enough for them according to them.
Now my son wants to go and see what they are going ot be showing...I am tempted to use it for a teaching tool for him so that HE can see how deeply his homeschool aquaintances believe in this junk.
Please continue to pray for my eyes to open and for wisdom here (b//c obviously it has more to do with than just their play on hell: I'm talking 10 years more of being around them so b/c we co-op and share education in a large group of kids. :-\)
-
Rodger,
Thank you for your reply; I thought you meant McCarthyism, but wanted to make sure.
Also, it is my understanding that here in Texas that when one is considered a PRIVATE SCHOOL, then the separation of church and state does not apply. (The homeschools in Texas are actually considered to be PRIVATE SCHOOLS- as far as legal definitions are concerned then my family is actually a private school. Thus, since LHSA (lubbock HomesSchool Association) is considered a christian homeschool support group, not a private christian 'school'; just a support group. But, I will make a call to the homeschool legal defense and see if this is something that pertains to me having any rights or not. Thankyou for this input, we shall see.
Thank you for your prayers too; as I still am blinded as to wether to be sepratists with this group or to just be a prat of their classes only (b/c not I have no desire to be with them one on one anymore and I certainly will not offer them the truth without seeing some seriousness on their parts to learn the truth. (Yesterday, they chose to not be around me so three, maybe 4 families went bowling instead of rollerskating b/c they thought that we would be there! I think what has happened too is that one of the mothers has gossipped about an incident that she and I disagreed upon and now those other three families and kids choose to stay away from me in any situation except for schooling events, due to listening to incorrect info from this one woman; thus, no social opportunities for my son and his old little buddies anymore; now that ticks me off /b/c they know that he has limited social opportunities at this time.) I see homeschooling as being in the world, but not of the world, and that socializing with other homeschool kids is just that...socialization, not personal fellowshipping.
i don't know why this is so difficult for me to get through. Please keep praying, b/c I can't offer my child many other socialization opportunities with kids of his age at this time.
-
Hello Susan
Sounds to me like you and your son are being dragged! What a blessing! Consider the opposite.
Imagine if you were to write to us like this...that you are so comfortable with your pagan hethen group of friends. That you pride yourself on high levels of tolerance and that you are able to "fellowship" with everyone and that the world just loves you. That you belong.
Okay I know this is like a drop in the ocean but hope it helps to comfort you in this trial. Consider the opposite. God is the master planer for your life and for the future of your son.
Our life situations are very difficult but they do come TO PASS.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
-
Yep, You are right Arcturus; I have very little tolerance for their musings, and I am not considered a part of their clique. So true...we are being dragged; but this situation will come to pass. My child keeps asking to go to see the play, so I will take him so that it will be a great learning esxperience for him to see, hear, feel, etc..and learn of false doctrine first hand (of one of the worst possible false doctrines in all of human history!.) This will be Saturday afternoon...I will keep you informed of what we encounter...it should be interesting. I think that Anne might come along too. They had a reharsal play on Tuesday and I read all of the GREAT email reviews by the parents of the hs kids. They coudln't say enough good aboout it!!!! ;)( 8) 8) 8) 8) 8))
-
It is all part of training, endurance, patience and trusting in HIM.
Peace to you and I'll be thinking of you!
Arcturus :)
-
To All,
I am wondering something. If we are called to come out of Babylon, then why are we still discussing Babylon? Are we truly forgetting what lies behind and straining on towards the prize?
That's all.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
-
Anne,
In answer to your question as to why we are still discussing Babylon and not forgetting what lies behind, ...it is because we are 'IN THE WORLD, but not of the world' ...and sometimes in getting through our daily experiences of the WORLDLY influences , we need brethren to encourage us and strengthen us and remind us in the Lord in order to help us to get through difficult times. The WORLDLY/BABYLONIAN influences are ALWAYS AND CONSTANTLY around each of us who are trying to to be set apart from the world. In this particular case, I am trying to teach my young child of WHO AND WHAT BABYLON IS and of how to not do as they do. it is simply a teaching lesson for truth here. I hope this helps. :D
-
To add to what you say Susan
Babylon is also a spiritual influence that we do not entirely come out of until Jesus comes to get us. Non are out yet as non are born again yet or elect yet. We keep our eyes on Jesus in appreciation for how far we have come and we should never forget how far this is because it is paid for by His suffering and His faith.
So for me, "forgetting what lies behind" means never forgetting what and who lies ahead. It is ONE! ;D Appreciation, gratitude and reverential awe of Jesus Christ helps us to continue to fight the good fight of faith. We can only know good by our experience of evil. The contrast helps sharpen our focus on what is holy and helps us in our development to know the difference! See what I mean?
We are not saying go backwards, backslide or return to Babylon. On the contrary! We are saying never forget the lessons! Never become dull of spirit again.
The deeper the influence of Babylon the more intolerant of her plagues and heresy, idolatry and selfish self centered devouring of the sheep we should become.
Rom 6 : 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound; 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto aion life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
-
Amen and Amen Arcturus!! Very well said! Thank you for elaborating on this :D
I shall take Daniel today and then let you know how it went.
(I am so tempted to write a correction to the statement that the director of this play put out for all HSers to read when she stated in her disclaimer that ..."we are going by what the biblesdefinition of Hell is ...." and to counter her statement with the truth of what the real meaning of hell really is...,but, I don't think that they would receive it at all and it would just caus fruther separation. :-\)
-
Hi Anne,
Another point I would like to make about your question;
If we are called to come out of Babylon, then why are we still discussing Babylon? Are we truly forgetting what lies behind and straining on towards the prize?
Some that are here are still physically in the church. And we get questions from people who are struggling with coming out of her.
We also have family members who are still apart of Babylon.
So it is a continued presence in our lives.
As Arcturus said, "We are not saying go backwards, backslide or return to Babylon."
But we can help encourage others a great deal, by what we have experienced in coming out of her :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
-
There seems to be a difference between coming out of Babylon and being of the world.
Christs instruction of: "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." is I believe referring the "Church," because Christ say's "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."
It would seem that the nations are IN the world of which many of its peoples are also IN Babylon.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
So what is "being in" the world?
1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
It is very intereting how Christ describes the things in the world. It is not the fast car, or the flashy clothes or huge mansion on the coast line; rather it is the:
1. Lust of the flesh
2. Lust of the eyes
3. Pride of life
What did Christ mean by Lust?
epithumia {ep-ee-thoo-mee'-ah} [1939]
It is to desire, crave, long for and desire for what is forbidden; lust
So what then is Pride?
alazoneia {al-ad-zon-i'-a} [212]
1) empty, braggart talk
2) an insolent and empty assurance, which trusts in its own power
and resources and shamefully despises and violates divine laws
and human rights
3) an impious and empty presumption which trusts in the stability
of earthy things
This is what being "in the World" really means. It is not ones possesions or ones job, etc, but rather how one lusts, craves for what one doesn't have and then brags pridefully over ones greatness and power for having acheived ones goals.
This is why Jesus said, any with such thoughts and desires "is not of the Father, but is of the world."
Being not of the world is different than being in the world. :)
Jhn 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are].
I truly believe that coming out of Babylon and freeing oneself from perhaps years of guilt, false doctrine, man made tradition is different than being "of the world."
For there are many who were never in Babylon, but are clearly OF the world just as there are many who give thanks to God for everything that have and acknowledge him in all things, yet they are still stuck in Babylon.
Pride for oneself over God is very different than being thankful to God for all the wonderous things he has provided. We cannot come out of the world, but we sure do not have to be caught up in the World.
Our Heavenly Father will care for his own.
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
Comments are always welcome, :)
Love to all in Christ,
Darren
-
Amen, right on Darren! I like those definitions too; it puts the microscope even closer to the truth of the three 'lust of' words. Thanks :D
-
Hi Darren,
I see what you are saying.
Babylon is the church and that includes governments when they are intangled with her. The world is everything of the flesh.
Joh 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
This is speaking of coming out the ways of the world, the carnal fleshly nature.
This world will come to an end, but that is not speaking of the earth and all life, but this present evil age.
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the end of the world. Amen.
Here is a email of Ray's and an excerpt from Lake of Fire article #9, on this subject.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2049.0.html -------
is babylon the world, ie, mainly the religious system. of christianity claiming to be the church while being so steeped in worldy affairs?
i understand some call it the church of babylon, but for me there is one church the body of Christ.
while fale christianity is claiming to be the church.
are we told to come out of the world or out of the church???
thank you so much, i hope this makes it to the forum.
peace and love
chuckt
Dear Chuck:
No, Babylon does not claim to be the Church, THEY ARE THE CHURCH.
There are the called and the few chosen. The few chosen come out of the called masses of the congregation. Babylon the church rides the beast. The beast is the world.
God be with you,
Ray
-------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html ----------------------------
What is actually spoken of in these two chapters of Isaiah 13 & 14 is the history of world religion and government from the creation of man, through the destruction of man, and the realization of God’s spiritual Mt. Zion filling the universe. All the religions and governments of the world in the history of the world are personified in these two chapters. Isa. 13:1 begins with, "The burden of Babylon…" (organized religion and government against God), and ends with Isa. 14;32b, "That the Lord has founded Zion…" (The spiritual capital of the Universe governing all mankind). It’s all right here for those who have "ears to hear and eyes to see."
Let me give you the history of the world including all future prophecies, in one sentence:
God perfectly planned and recorded His creation of the heavens, angels, the earth, and carnal humanity, who sinned wickedly and were all drowned (save a few); who then reached for their own heaven at the tower of Babel in rebellion to the God Who then scattered them (save a few); who later built Babylon into a great pagan empire which God destroyed (save a few); who have since built many wicked and fornicating Babylons collectively called, Mystery Babylon The Great, whom God warns before utterly destroying again (save a few); and of ‘the Few’ God is creating a New Spiritual Humanity of Son-and-Daughter Saviours like unto Jesus, in New Jerusalem on spiritual Mt. Zion, were ALL will be redeemed (NOT just a few); that God may be "ALL in All"!
Maybe I could shorten it down a smidgen, but there it is. The reality of most of the symbolism of Revelation is contained in that one sentence. "But Mr. Smith, I don’t see ‘666’ anywhere in your sentence." You don’t? I do. I see 666 followed by 777 in nearly every phrase of that sentence. "He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the Churches!"
So far then there is no sign of Satan
----------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
-
Well, we went to the play and Daniel was bored! It was your typical fear tactic type of message delivered by the young actors. They were very surpreised to see us there; and believe it or not, they were more uncomfprtable that we were there that vise versa. It was awkward for some of the women, but I just told them that this will be a good learning experience for Daniel.
The 'HABITATION' was a place where angels resided and where the souls of those whom just died went to if they had repentance work to do before they went into Heaven...then, once they repented of their wrongs, then they got escorted 'to heaven'. They spoke of hell, but did not show anything of it on the stage.
Oh well, so much for anyone asking me of the hope that is within me ;) ???...maybe later though.
-
To All who replied to my question,
Thanks so much for taking your time out in answering the question. Most of all thank you Darrenb becuase those definitions helped pinpoint my problem. I did not know there was a difference in the two terms and held those to be equal. I had been wondering if I asked questions becuase about Babylon if that would be looked down upon.
Thanks.
Susan,
Hee heee. I am laughing at the mental pic of those ladies uncomfortable when you and Daniel showed up. Now that is funny and ironic.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
-
To add onto what you offer Kat,
We have to caution against becoming attached to THINGS of the world. Our appreciation of the Lord should not be for the THINGS we receive. He knows we have need of THINGS and tells us not to ask for THINGS as the heathen does.
Luke 12 : 29,30 And you, do not seek by meditating and reasoning to inquire into what you are to eat and what you are to drink; nor be anxious, troubled mind, unsettled, excited, worried, and in suspense; 30 For ALL THE PAGAN WORLD is greedily seeking these THINGS, and your Father knows that you need them.
Rom 14 : 17 After all, the kingdom of God is not a matter of getting the food and drink one likes, but instead it is righteousness, that state which makes a person acceptable to God and heart peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
It is a different matter to appreciate the Lord if He places us in the above condition of life and soul to be grateful for HIM and towards HIM.
Matt 19 : 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to go into the kingdome of heaven.
Mark 10 :24 ....Children, how hard it is for those who trust,place their confidence, their sense of safety in riches to enter the kingdom of God.
To be worthy of the spiritual kingdom of Christ we have to learn what Paul was and who Christ is. Paul gave us a glimpse of this concerning our material possessions. he wrote..
Phil 4 : 11 I have learned how to be content, satisfied to the point where I am not disturbed or disquieted in whatever state I am. 12 I know how to be abased and live humbly in straitened circumstances, and I know also how to enjoy plenty...13 I am self sufficient in Christs's sufficiency.
I think it is in deed an enviable position to be in this spiritual place that Paul described. I think it is a rare human being who can say the same. Burn my house and I am self sufficient. Give me a million dollars and I am the same...self sufficient.
Who is not moved by the tides of good or bad fortune? Surely he who has suffered much and who has been chosen by the Lord. As Jesus said, when He returns there will be little faith. I take that to mean very few will be detatched from their carnality when our Lord returns. Most will be indulging or rationalising their circumstances not knowing that God is in control of everything. What a day for the world when He returns. From then on it will never be the same again! 8)
Peace to you
Arcturus